We all know the story of the Triforce's creation of course, how the 3 goddesses created Hyrule in a very Creation-like story (you know, from the bible?) and then the Triforce was created. I don't think that is really what happened. When this story got passed down for thousands of years, something was sure to have gotten changed.
What I think really happened is...
Look at the ending cutscene in TMC. The hat sounds awfully like the Triforce. Now what I think is the Lightforce and the magic hat created a reaction which resulted in the spinny triangles we all love.
The 'goddesses' were in TMC too. They might have added their power to the Triforce too.
Thus the Triforce was created in TMC and it is the first Zelda game.
Thats an intresting outlook, i dont think thats right but were all entitled to our opinion so yeah..
Personally, I really think that's incorrect. Aonuma stated that the Light Force was not the Triforce.
The Triforce may have had something to do the Minish Cap, but it hasn't been stated, I think.
The Triforce is seen in TMC, like on the banners in Hyrule Castle. And that's an interesting thought, but I won't be accepting it as remotely possible anytime soon. You biggest flaw is the fact that we see the Triforce in TMC, even though it is not relevant to the plot. Sorry, newbkyng, but, while it is a good idea, you cannot even prove that it's plausible.
WHAT IF the triforce and the winged triforce were the family crest, and so the triforce took on that shape becuz it was created by one of the Royal Family?
Not so smart now ;D
First off, that last sentecne wasn't necessary; it's an insult to my intelligence. Second, the goddesses were not in TMC. The Oracles from Holodrum and Labrynna are named after the goddesses. Third, the hat is nothing like the Triforce. That hat is Ezlo, a Minish master of lore and sorcery. The Triforce is an inanimate object; Ezlo is a living creature. And then, we still have the fact that Aonuma stated that the Light Force wasn't the Triforce. I'm going to take the word of a person who is officially with Nintendo over the word of a fan.
Wow that was wonderful. We all have opinions so lets calm down a little.
No, the magic red pointy hat that Vaati used to turn 'human', and the same hat Zelda wore to set the world back 2 normal. And I didn't say the LightForce was the Triforce, just that it was created by it. Also, I never said the goddesses were in the game, but they must've been around.
Quote from: newbkyng on July 13, 2006, 08:18:51 PM
The 'goddesses' were in TMC too. They might have added their power to the Triforce too.
No, you did say the goddesses were in TMC. As for the Light Force and the Mage's Cap creating a reaction, it restored Hyrule Castle and the Mage's Cap disintegrated. That was all. Going back to your "A Royal Family member made the Triforce" comment, that is impossible. Even though the Hylians are the most magical race in the game, not only do we hardly see them use it (we only see Zelda using any magical powers) but they are still human, and humans cannot create something as powerful as the Triforce. It would take a god or goddess to do it. And then, it would have to take three goddesses to create it. The Triforce represents Power, Courage, and Wisdom, and Din, Farore, and Nayru are the Goddesses of Power, Courage, and Wisdom respectively. The goddesses had to work together to create this relic of balance (which humans are rarely ever balanced between the three virtues mentioned above). And before you say that the Mage's Cap had unlimited power, think. Ezlo probably said that because he was arrogant (he certainly shows arrogance in the game). Also, if the Mage's Cap had unlimited power, Vaati wouldn't have needed the Light Force. What little Light Force Zelda had left and the limited Mage's Cap most likely wouldn't have had the power to create something so powerful as the Triforce.
The Mage cap WAS really powerful, it seemed to be an equal to the Triforce. And the goddesses were in it as they were in every game just not seen. They were there, they were the earth, they were the life of all creatures.
Okay, that was philosophical. Even so, the Mage's Cap is still not as powerful as Ezlo would like to believe. If Vaati needed the Light Force and the Mage's Cap to become a god, it is not very powerful. And Zelda barely has any of the Light Force in her at the end of the game. It probably won't be enough power to make the Mage's Cap into the Triforce. What you have to say is interesting, but I just don't think it's plausible. If that's what you want to believe, then fine. Go with it. I'm just saying why I don't think your view is the correct one to use and why I won't be using it anytime soon.
That's so mean, how do you sleep at night? I don't see whats wrong with it, like, it was never stated the Triforce could turn you into a god either. And if it could, that would be because it was fused with the light force. Maybe Vaati took too much
(If you don't inderstand and you are a Naruto fan, in a recent comic it was shown Naruto made more chakra then needed and the excess went to waste. Mbe something like that?)
Hey, this is fun Devil's Advocate. Keep it up!
Maybe Tingle is the incarnation of the Godesses. Maybe Vaati is really a saint and the world is messed up.these are empty ideas with no proof.
well the "goddesses" came from Holodrum and Labryna. In the creation of hyrule story it dosen't say the goddesses lived in hyrule for a while as a couple of divas for a few years and left. It also dosen't mention them being kidnapped by evil people.
Don't beleive they're from the oracle games? Check their figurines from Carlov. This also disproves your "this is the first game" theory
Also, the theory that the cap was equal to the triforce is dead too because when the triforce is triggered it's absolute. But Vaati exerted the full power of the cap and still got blown to smithereens.
Those aren't goddesses, those are oracles!
And nothing is disproved about TMC being the first tloz-game. I'm not saying it is, but in my opinion it could very well be.
The quotes from those figurines are "long line of" or something like that. Why do people keep thinking that the first storywise tloz-game happens near the beginning of everything? For all we know, there could've been thousands of Links/Heroes before that game. It could very well be that those girls in TMC are ancestors of the ones in OOx. Why wouldn't their jobs be a family tradition back then?
whatever. I've never played the oracle games.
besides, thats like saying there was no god in A.D. before religion was started (well, if you beleive in god of course). There were still the goddesses even if they weren't shown.
Also, figurines are 'easter-eggy'. Just because they're there doesn't mean they have any connection to other games.
Okay, here's my renewed theory, the MC and FS/FSA world is different from the ones of the other games, MM and LA, and OOT, etc. Hyrule (OOS and OOA are part of the OOT world, but they are seperate places from Hyrule). It's is just a coincidence that they're both named Hyrule.
Also, Level 8 of the FSA, the heavens, is where all of them meet, and Ganon, when sealed in the Sacred Realm, found an exit, landed there, found out about Vaati, and possessed him with his Triforce abilities.
The Light force, meanwhile, was taken by the Minish, who were banned from Hyrule for safety.
Perhaps, like Termina and Hyrule (OOT, OOA, OOS, LTTP, LOZ, AOL, TWW, PH, and possibly TP), the worlds are mirror worlds, with Hyrule (OOT, etc.) made first. Thousands of years later, TMC and FS one was made, with the heavens as their meeting place. Of course, it would take thousands of years for the second on to be an almost perfect mirror image, and this is when TMC takes place, and OOT too.
Then, at the same time Link returned to the past and lost Navi, the goddesses created Termina, which still needed perfection. Because it was just created, it was maturing into a nearly perfect mirror image.
It is just a coincidence Link landed in Termina nad not TMC and FS world. Also, I think LA happened in Termina, when Link tried to return to Hyrule, he stayed for years thinking of a plan to get out. When he was about 17, Link thought of the sea and found himself in LA, then he sailed back to Termina, and realized he could not leave by sea, so he tried finding another portal and failed.
Meanwhile, when Link would be thirty, Vaati returned, and so a mirror image happend in Hyrule (OOT), Ganon returned. This led to the flooding, because Link wasn't there (a similar event could take place in Termina, but Link, still looking for the portal, was not in the part shown in the MM game), so Ganon conquered it. I can't explain how the same didn't happen in MC world, but it is certain Vaati was beaten there.
Then came WW, Ganon sealed away, and found a new exit, thinking it led to OOT Hyrule, but led to FSA Hyrule. Meanwhile, PH happened, while it mirrored in FSA Hyrule as FSA, Ganon defeated there, whatever defeated in PH Hyrule. Ganon stayed in OOT Hyrule, and the other two were never heard of again.
Also, this is theories material.
1. ALTTP's Hyrule and FSA's seem pretty much the same to me. And ALTTP's Hyrule is the same, though ounger Hyrule as OOT's.
2. I don't see why Vaati would give up his part of the Lightfore or under which circumstances it could be taken from him. I don't recall Ganon ever clearly possessing anyone, so there's reason to doubt he has that ability. And I don't see why the Triforce of Power would be more powerful than the almost the entire Lightforce.
3. I don't see how the Minish could be in danger by staying. Nobody can see them, so they are pretty safe.
4. If Termina was created almost just before Link got there, then why does it have such a huge past? Ikana wasn't destroyed recently.
5. If the goddesses would've created Termina (and especially because they did that only recently), wouldn't the people of Termina know about them? Not one reference is made. Their gods, the ones that created their world(s) are the four giants.
6. The flood takes place FAR more than only like 14 years after OOT.
I can't explain it, but mabye the goddesses new Link would come and made it so it looked older, gave everyone the memory, and present a challenge to Link.
Reminds me of a bunch of religious people that once tried to explain fossils (millions of years old, while the earth, according to them/their believe, was only a couple of thousand years old) as something given by god to confuse us and therfor give us a challenge.
Sorry, but it's very unlikely.
This is a fantasy world. And he's the Hero of Time. As I said, mabye the goddesses wanted for him to have a new challenge, and it failed.
Even despite it's a fantasy world, "ridiculous will of the gods" and "random magic" are hardly ever good answers. Just because everything can happen doesn't mean it will. There's also something called logic or common sense and I think that even in the most fantasy of fantasy worlds, those beat "fantasy reasons". Please, I'm not insulting you or anything. I'm just saying why I think it's not likely that happened. But, what do you mean with "it failed"?
Quote from: LadyNintendo on October 15, 2006, 05:12:24 AM
1. ALTTP's Hyrule and FSA's seem pretty much the same to me. And ALTTP's Hyrule is the same, though ounger Hyrule as OOT's.
2. I don't see why Vaati would give up his part of the Lightfore or under which circumstances it could be taken from him. I don't recall Ganon ever clearly possessing anyone, so there's reason to doubt he has that ability. And I don't see why the Triforce of Power would be more powerful than the almost the entire Lightforce.
3. I don't see how the Minish could be in danger by staying. Nobody can see them, so they are pretty safe.
4. If Termina was created almost just before Link got there, then why does it have such a huge past? Ikana wasn't destroyed recently.
5. If the goddesses would've created Termina (and especially because they did that only recently), wouldn't the people of Termina know about them? Not one reference is made. Their gods, the ones that created their world(s) are the four giants.
6. The flood takes place FAR more than only like 14 years after OOT.
1. So what, its just the same graphics.
2.He was killed. And it sorta could be. No game has explained the true potential of either.
3. Um... I have no idea wat you just said.
4. Ever seen 'The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe'?
5. ...who said they did?
6. We don't know that.
That wasnt very well thought out newbkyng. It seems like your just trying to disregard the points Lady nintendo is making. And another thing they are NOT the same graphics.
Thank you, Lemmy. :)
newbkyng,
1. I never said or meant graphics when I said they looked the same. First of all, FSA has ALTTP, TMC and TWW graphics, so it couldn't be the same for that reason. I was refering to the map as a whole.
2. It doesn't seem to me the Lightforce is inferior. God is pretty much the highest rank, something the Lightforce allows you to become. Also, Vaati could not have died. I admit I was dissapointed about his apparent death in FSA, but I soon realized he could not have died. Both the Master Sword and the Four Sword are not capable of killing pure evil. Only locking it up or banishing. And Vaati is pure evil. Or let me put it this way: Vaati was already imprisoned 3 times by the Four Sword before FSA (TMC, pre-FS, FS). If it could destroy him, he would've been dead a long time ago.
3. It's not that hard. Hardly anyone even believes the Minish to be real, and only about four children in the entire TMC saw a Minish. If Ganondorf and/or his minions can't spot them, don't know about them and, because they aren't a threat at all, why would they need to run? I don't think it would be necessary for them. And even so, I don't think they could (gate has to be open and the need to have acces to it. Usually the first thing Ganondorf claims/destroys is Hyrule Castle.) or would. Beings that thrive on making people happy and have dedicated their lives to do so, won't just abandon those same people when they need help the most.
4. No. Care to explain?
5. Who is the "they" you are refering to? The Goddesses or the Giants? The Goddesses were said to have created Termina by Shino, the Giants by Anju's grandmother in Majora's Mask(?).
6. Yes we do. TP comes a few decades after OOT. My guess: 70 years. And I only give it 5% chance to end with the flood.
My guess: 200+ years. Yes, that's several decades too, and it's far more likely. At least, I very strongly doubt it's less than 100 years after OoT.
As for Termina, they know of the Goddess of Time (who I believe is Nayru).
QuoteIt is just a coincidence Link landed in Termina nad not TMC and FS world. Also, I think LA happened in Termina, when Link tried to return to Hyrule, he stayed for years thinking of a plan to get out. When he was about 17, Link thought of the sea and found himself in LA, then he sailed back to Termina, and realized he could not leave by sea, so he tried finding another portal and failed.
He's a kid when he returns to Hyrule. Besides, Agahnim and the old school Ganon isn't in OoT. The final Nightmare transforms ONLY to characters/creatures he has met.
QuoteDon't beleive they're from the oracle games? Check their figurines from Carlov. This also disproves your "this is the first game" theory
How many times do I have to say this? The only thing those figurines prove is that they're in a line of oracles. Now tell me, where in the Oracles is it stated that the oracles in those games are the first in the bloodline?
Never really gave that a thought. More than 100 years....Possibly.
Um, just how do you know Termina knows about this "Goddess of Time"?
And do you mean OOT/MM Link made it back to Hyrule, or just that he tried finding it as a kid? I doubt he tried to get home at the end of MM and that, if he ever tried, got "home" again.
The ending sequence shows KID Link back in the forest where he started. As for the Goddess of Time, do you know that guy who gives you the biggest wallet?
Well, if you go back in you'll see him down in the room with the fence. He's shivering with fear and is praying to the Goddess of Time.
Doesn't mean he tried to get back or got back. He still has that "friend" to look for and I don't think he would just give up his original quest after Majora's little party of world destruction. I don't think Link ever made it back, because TWW stated the Hero left, but not that he ever returned.
Oh, and I just found the quote. Thanks. I never saw that before.
Try and think of a way the KoRL could have added that he did return without it looking silly. Then you can try and explain what significance it has to the story. :-*
As for his friend, the KoRL says that Link was called away from Hyrule. Prophetic dream, anyone? Tatl? I'm pretty sure he saw himself in Termina, followed by a faerie who he assumed to be Navi. From what the intro says Navi is the only one he can have been looking for.
If he did return, they wouldn't have mentioned him leaving in the first place. And they would have mentioned he went to save another world rather than something about a calling.
My reasons for believing he never went home are based on that, the timeline the way I see it and some quotes which I've always thought are odd. "Shouldn't you be going home too?"...or something like that. Just where is Link's home? And since I don't believe in a split timeline theory, he couldn't have gone back yet, because that would cause a paradox. Or what I'm trying to say is: he just didn't go back. OOT's timeline seems solid, unchangeable. Not because noone is capable of changing it, but because noone did/does. And then there was that strange quote about Saria, that she will always be your friend. Like whoever said that knew they won't see eachother again.
It wouldn't create a paradox because Ganon was in the Golden Land when he returned to his own time.
And the ending sequence clearly shows Link in the forest where he started.
Link has to stay out of Hyrule for seven years, because otherwise, he could meet his younger Hero Of Time self. That itself wouldn't be a real problem, but the fact is that adult Link never met himself. It may sound like Link has no choice, but that's not what I'm saying. He never met himself because he never met himself. MM Link apparently decided not to go back until at least his Hero Of Time self would be sent back in time. Maybe he left Termina, but he did not return to Hyrule.
They are the same person, showing as how Link can use the master sword to go back and forth through ages.
Yes, but:
Link was asleep for seven years. That means that during those seven years, he wasn't in Hyrule at all. Not long after he had woken up, he went back in time. This caused Link to be able to walk around Hyrule, doing some quests, while he also still was asleep. This caused two Links and some items to exist at the same time. However, because Zelda sent one Link back in time, this paradox was no longer. I'm assuming that she sent him to the last moment in time he left his childhood behind (so after meeting Nabooru), in order to still be able to spend those seven years the way he wants to spend them. After his younger self would've been sent back, he could take his place again if he wanted.
i think the triforce is a bananna, dont ask me why
Quote from: Shikamaru_Nara on September 26, 2006, 07:29:40 AM
Maybe Tingle is the incarnation of the Godesses. Maybe Vaati is really a saint and the world is messed up.these are empty ideas with no proof.
Yes. The main problem with the theory is that there isn't really a need for it. Believing that the Goddesses made is more plausible and makes perfect sense as it is.
Quote from: LadyNintendo on October 19, 2006, 12:44:13 PM
Yes, but:
Link was asleep for seven years. That means that during those seven years, he wasn't in Hyrule at all. Not long after he had woken up, he went back in time. This caused Link to be able to walk around Hyrule, doing some quests, while he also still was asleep. This caused two Links and some items to exist at the same time. However, because Zelda sent one Link back in time, this paradox was no longer. I'm assuming that she sent him to the last moment in time he left his childhood behind (so after meeting Nabooru), in order to still be able to spend those seven years the way he wants to spend them. After his younger self would've been sent back, he could take his place again if he wanted.
This reminds me the split-time theory. That OoT separeted Hyrule in 2 dimensions. One with Link as a child, and the other with a Adult Zelda, a sealed Ganondorf, but no Link. Nice post LadyNintendo :)