Often times atheists will say "well you can't prove God is real", and many atheists like their little scientific box that says only things that can be proven are real. Well there is something in science that can't be proven known as the string theory (http://www.superstringtheory.com/basics/basic4.html) that cannot be proven but is accepted by scientists. So how is creation of the world by God not an acceptable theory amongst scientists? We may not be able to physically prove God exists, but we can determine that he does by logical means. If you wish to have any questions answered regarding proving myself please ask and I will do my best to answer. (Do my best because I'm not a professional religious scholar.)
Actually, it "can" be proven. You see, there are a few theories out there that cannot (yet) be truly proven, but all experiments and pure logic support those theories. The string theory is a result of combining other theories that aren't really proven (therefor, they are theories) but haven't been disproven by any of the many experiments yet. Notice please that all scientists aknowledge it is nothing more than a theory and not truth yet. However, you either believe a theory or you don't and try to prove your opinion any way you can. Noone has been able yet to disprove it, only semi-prove it.
Maybe you should have said what/who you think God is, so I would know what to say. Do you consider him a man with a beard who tells us how we should behave, or an entity that was the start of all?
Anyway, God creating the world is bringing a problem to a level that is "not our problem so we shouldn't be bothered by it". What I mean is, believers cannot believe our incredible complex world is the result of random events, but exists because someone wanted that. No offence, but for one, I think that's incredible arrogant. What really is said is that a "human conscience" is the start of all. You'd think we would have learned a few bits of modesty in all those ages. But apart from that, suppose the start of the world is God's work. That makes God a very complex being too, since he's either able to make a world based on him or a he's able to create a world that's far more complex than he is, making him complex on a mental level. But why would such a complex being be able to just exist, but does our world need a creationplan to be able to exist? Or does God have a creator too? Same question. The problem of existance is simply brought out of reach by believe instead of being solved.
That's only one of the reasons why God is not accepted.
hmm... the flying spaghetti monster will be brought up here...
Didn't Dan the man get banned (by asking Jack himself) for going about this topic? Just a thought that we have to be careful about this issue...
Yes, the last time a religious debate was freely discussed, the creator was banned. I'll let this go, but if it gets out of hand, it will be closed.
See you then since your all too uncomfortable to discuss something as important as this, bye.
I can't speak on behalf of the others. I wasn't saying I wasn't going to discuss it, I was saying that it's a touchy subject that has potential to get out of hand.
I think Gamefreak/Random Naruto Name, is scared that he cannot form any logical basis for a belief in a creator, so is saying it will 'get out of hand'.
QuoteSo how is creation of the world by God not an acceptable theory amongst scientists?
Because it's bo*lo*ks.
(Self-Censored so as not to inflame any of your delicate eyes)
GF is not afraid, it's simply that what ID is proposing is so full of tripe, that it's more of a sign of ignorance than anything else. One thing one would wonder if ID were real: Who created the creator? This is a paradoz that goes ad infinitum, this is why belief in a so called 'intelligent designer' is flawed. The only designer out there, is nature, and nature alone.
And if you don't know how touchy religion discussions can get, then you have never talked with anyone of an opposing religion. This is why it's important to keep an open mind, So no one gets stupid and full of rage and hate over such a trivial matter.
Quote from: Rincewind on November 06, 2006, 12:19:24 PM
I think Gamefreak/Random Naruto Name, is scared that he cannot form any logical basis for a belief in a creator, so is saying it will 'get out of hand'.
QuoteSo how is creation of the world by God not an acceptable theory amongst scientists?
Because it's bo*lo*ks.
(Self-Censored so as not to inflame any of your delicate eyes)
You sound awfully familiar....
QuoteThis is why it's important to keep an open mind, So no one gets stupid and full of rage and hate over such a trivial matter.
Agreed, and that goes for both religious people and atheists.
QuoteYou sound awfully familiar....
Perhaps it is Fate, Gamefreak.
It seems to me that the majority of people in the world today are atheists... no offense to anyone who is, just an observation. Correct me if im wrong in saying that almost all the poeple here seem to have no religion.
We have many extremely good reasons to be atheists.
I think the reason many people here are not religious is that we mainly come from countries like America, Canada and England, as well as others. These are countries in which families (hopefully) don't decide their childrens religions for them.
Anyway I am gonna have to say I don't believe in ID one bit.
Quote from: Rincewind on November 07, 2006, 09:10:00 AM
QuoteYou sound awfully familiar....
Perhaps it is Fate, Gamefreak.
I don't want to get into this in the discussion, so I'll make this my last post on the matter. I seem to remember a member named Jack Fate who made similar posts like this to me. So is it you?
Quote from: x*TwilightZelda*x on November 07, 2006, 11:07:19 AM
Anyway I am gonna have to say I don't believe in ID one bit.
this may sound incredibly stupid but... whats ID?
ID stands for 'intelligent design' it is a 'theory' (actually closer to hypothesis) that all life was created and engineered by an 'intelligent designer'. People are using this as an excuse to exempt evolution teaching in science class rooms.
Intelligent Designer...why dont they just call it God, i mean, isnt it the same concept?
No because someone who doesn't believe in God, but says God, shows a weakness to their group.
ID is mixing religion with science. It allows evolution, but triggered and controlled by a "higher being" (aka God, but they usually don't say that specifically).
I'm a fullblood atheist and I respect believers (well, the ones that don't mind showing they can think for themselves and don't get all violent when they feel offended). However, the ID-theory is just pathetic. Maybe it once could've been a good answer for religious people, but after their incredible long denial of evolution, a theory that becomes less theory and more truth every day, ID sounds like a very sad final attempt to make a deal.
Either accept evolution or don't. You're free to choose. Besides, evolution does not deny the existance of God, it only suggests that he may be different than what most(?) people would expect. I mean, the fact that not the earth, but the sun is the center of the/our universe also was troubling for religion, but it survived.
Oh, i see. But my religion (Catholic) does'nt believe in ID. After all, you can have a religion and still believe in evolution (like myself)
I acknowledge evolution, but I don't believe that is our origin.
hey, i pray to the Lord everynight and i still believe in evolution (to an extent). It's all about what you choose.
I honestly don't see what the fuss is. It's so far into the past I could really care less about how life got onto the planet. What matters to me is that life exists, I exist, and people I care about and who care about me back exist. Also there are people who contribute to my happiness and people I hope I spread happiness too. Why does it really matter how life got here? Let's just except the fact that life somehow got here and stop putting too much thought into it.
I swear, humans think too much sometimes.
We do, we do. Sometimes we think so much we never find a solution.
I disagree. Just because certain knowledge does not affect your direct surroundings, doesn't mean it's unimportant. It does not affect us personally, but it's part of us. If mankind would have thought like that throughout the ages, I can guarantee we would not be and have what we are and have now. Evolution and the start of it are fascinating. Even if that knowledge can't be used for anything, it leads to new discoveries that do affect us.
i know we're kinda in a good discussion, and i hate to be the wet blanket,but we're a little off topic.
Well, the topicstarter left, so I guess we can discuss anything related to this. A shame though, because I really wanted to hear his arguments. ::)
"We may not be able to physically prove God exists, but we can determine that he does by logical means."
Yes, I am being a little sarcastic. As soon as he figured out it wasn't "wise" (he read: allowed) to start such a topic, he left. I do not wish to say anything bad about him, but it does sound to me like he was trying to convince a few atheists God exists rather than start a discussion. I still would have loved to hear his arguments though.
Quote from: LadyNintendo on November 07, 2006, 11:22:11 PM
I'm a fullblood atheist and I respect believers (well, the ones that don't mind showing they can think for themselves and don't get all violent when they feel offended).
I feel I should out myself as an atheist as well. Which I'm sure Rincewind would find ironic because I assume he pictures me as some modern day Protector of the Faith. And, Lady N, it's good to know there are other atheists out there that aren't you-know-what-holes about their beliefs (or, appropriately, lack thereof).
yeah, Harashi left after alot of us told him it wasnt wise to start a discussion. Anyway, I hate it when religious people get all offended about atheists. It's annoying. You should just leave an atheist alone. If they wanna be atheist, then that fine, no need to hassle them.