The Desert Colossus

Where in the timeline do u think TP fits?
i think its somewhere after OoT and before WW..
I can't find a solution of how it fits but i think it fits better there than any other place :-X

That's definitely the most logical place to put it.

I'd say it's around 300 years after OoT, and around 600 years before TWW.

SPOILER!!



















yes.. something like that...
but what about Ganondorf being sent to the twilight realm.. on WW it said the Hero never returned and it says nothing about Ganon returning twice....
but since WW came out first there might be some kind of change in the timeline theory Nintendo MIGHT have...





















SPOILER END

I just assume that the tales of the two heroes have been told so many times they just kind of merged into one. So something that TP Link did could be attributed to the Hero of Time. e.g. Splitting the Triforce of Courage into eight shards.

interesting theory.. i dont think so though... seems kinda... not right.. ??? no offence
can't think of anything else though.. not right now :-X

How would you explain the discrepancies then?

According to Nintendo, TP takes place a few decades after OoT. I think that would place it before TWW.

Quote from: MagmarFire on January 19, 2007, 05:11:33 PM
According to Nintendo, TP takes place a few decades after OoT. I think that would place it before TWW.

Impossible. The Hero of Time is constantly referred to as the "Ancient Hero."

Absolutely not impossible. What's the definition of ancient? Yes, it means old, but what is "old," anyway? It's all a matter of perspective. All because something is referred to as ancient doesn't mean that it's impossible for it to be placed that way in the timeline.

Besides, I think a century and a half of time after something happened makes the event in question ancient. Also, isn't a century and a half "a few decades"? Fifteen decades. Is that not a "few"? ;)

Commodore Axilon, while I don't agree with your placing Twilight Princess after Wind Waker, I've got some evidence for that. In Ordona, there's several depictions of a Triforce piece split in eight. Placing Wind Waker before Twilight Princess makes it seem like a historical reference.

I think the constant referral to the Hero of Time as the Ancient Hero serves to drive home the point that Ocarina of Time is one of, if not the, first games in the timeline.

And my two cents regarding the topic: I think Twilight Princess is between Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker.

Since a few decades can mean anything between 20 years and some time after 20 years, I don't think it's really worth discussing how much time there is between OOT and TP. Personally, I too think it's 300 years or something because that seems more logical or, but it really doesn't matter.

Larwaa > Some splitters think TP comes after the child timeline and TWW after the adult timeline. It's a decent explanation, but as a single timeline theorist, I just say that in none of the games it is never mentioned he returned multiple times, while he certainly did. Also, there's the possibility that even OOT wasn't his first appearance. It really doesn't matter. It seems time ties the stories together. Considering Hyrule hardly seems to care about its past, except the knowledge there have been some big events, I think that's a reasonable explanation. Especially if the stories are so similar.

Quote from: Eralk Fang on January 19, 2007, 05:47:33 PM
Commodore Axilon, while I don't agree with your placing Twilight Princess after Wind Waker, I've got some evidence for that. In Ordona, there's several depictions of a Triforce piece split in eight. Placing Wind Waker before Twilight Princess makes it seem like a historical reference.

Um, where did I say this? I said it's around 600 years before TWW.

Huh, I recall you arguing that somewhere else, Commodore Axilon. Must've gotten you confused with someone else. Sorry about that.

I believe Commodore Axilon argued the fact that the amount of time after OoT was merely a few decades, and that he prefers his own statement of around 300 years after.

On-Topic: I agree with Commodore Axilon on his placement of TP in the timeline.

Quote from: Eralk Fang on January 19, 2007, 05:47:33 PM
In Ordona, there's several depictions of a Triforce piece split in eight.

Really? Where?

Oh, I think there's a few, Evahn, but the easiest one to find is the Triforce piece on the green banner on Link's house. If you look up close, it is split into eight pieces.

THIS POST WILL HAVE TWILIGHT PRINCESS SPOILERS!!


It could also be the Triforce of Wisdom, placing LoZ before OoT. And yes, that is possible. As for my placing of TP, I put it somewhere between FSA and ALttP. I also now believe that the Seal War is not in the OoT era, and hence the 'execution' of Ganon has nothing to do with OoT.

I believe that the way the Gerudo treats Ganon in FSA may be a reference to what he did in OoT (not directly; my theory is that after that whole incident the Gerudo have been more mistrusting of their king), and some time later they left their desert, or maybe just disappeared. It's possible that certain Hylians in TP have Gerudo blood in their veins.

Anyway, in my current timeline theory Ganon eventually breaks loose from the Four Sword. I cannot guess what happens next, but at one point he's leading a group of thieves (some may have Gerudo blood) who seeks dominion over the Golden Land. He succeeds, and attacks Hyrule Castle with an evil army.

The Ancient Sages seals the 'source of evil', and Ganon is cast down and brought to the Mirror Chamber. But too late they realize that Ganon has the Triforce of Power. One might wonder, if that scene really is right after the Seal War, how they didn't know that he had the Triforce of Power.

However, the Japanese version only say that they sealed off the 'source of evil', not that they sealed the gates to the Golden Land. The way I see it it's not known before later that he got the Triforce of Power. Legends are not forged before some time after the real events, so it would still fit with ALttP.

Quoteon WW it said the Hero never returned and it says nothing about Ganon returning twice....

TWW NEVER claims that the Hero never returned. It only say he left on a journey. We know from MM, and possibly TP, that he DID return. And TWW only mentions that one return of Ganon because FSA, TP, ALttP and any other games that may be before TWW isn't important to the storyline of the game.

There are probably THOUSANDS of legends in Hyrule. We are unlikely to ever learn more than 3% of those legends. And let's not forget that the prologue states that it's just one of the legends of which the people speak.

QuoteSplitting the Triforce of Courage into eight shards.

The Triforce of Courage was split and hidden in the Great Sea, so I don't think it can have happened before the Great Flood.

QuoteWhat's the definition of ancient?

The historical definition is at least one thousand years, and that's putting it mildly. 1,000 years ago the Vikings lived, and I have a hard time thinking of them as ancient. It should be closer to 2,000 years, and older.

Besides, I would take anything Aonuma say with a grain of salt. Not that I think he's lying, but I believe he's drawing conclusions too quickly.

But there is something i don't understand. TP is before TWW right? TP called the great Hero "Ancient Hero" and TWW is decades after TP, but then he is called "The Hero of Time"? I just don't understand how TP doesn't know the title of the great Hero, but TWW is decades after TP and they know his title name?

That doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know it. Just that they prefer calling him the "Ancient Hero."

It has to be before TWW. When the sages talk about Ganondorf, that was what they did at the end of OoT (even though the map is drastically different), so this definitely happened after OoT/MM and before WW. Ganon comes back again after you defeat him in TP, and obviously there are no direct descendants of our Ordonan Link, even though he is obviously interested in Ilia..

Its after OoT, that's for sure. Cuz I learned recently that on OoT release thay made it clear that OoT was THE first game in the storyline, chronological.

That can be argued.

QuoteIt has to be before TWW. When the sages talk about Ganondorf, that was what they did at the end of OoT (even though the map is drastically different), so this definitely happened after OoT/MM and before WW.

That scene is in the DESERT, not the Golden Land. So whether you're a singlist or splittist it's still impossible for it to be right after OoT. In both 'endings' Ganon ends up trapped in the Golden Land, or Dark World which is more accurate.

In between OOT/MM and TWW/PH. We don't know exactly what else is around that time, except Ganon has yet to rise from somewhere and cause the flood with various activities.

Well actually I remember one Line in TWW which said: But the Hero Never Came/showed etc.
Come to think of it, did it say: The hero Didn't show?

Perhaps it doesn't say NEVER, but he did not show, and he did not show in time. The gods washed Hyrule away before the hero of time came back. Meaning, IT HAS to be before TWW, and definately after OOT because it was proclaimed by Shigeru that OoT WAS the first game in the timeline. Chronologically, TP is second or third in the timeline, and it's between OoT and WW.

If I am in error, please DO correct me in an understanding reasonable way. No more bullshitting around this subject now. No happy douches saying but It's like that because I want it to be like that!

Not that anyone has said that, lol....  ;D

If you take that interview as canon then LoZ and AoL has to be before ALttP. :-* But he never strictly said that OoT has to be the first game. That's fanon, not canon.

Hello folks. I figured this is as good of a first post as any.

Twilight Princess Spoilers Below!



As I see it, the game takes place several centuries after Link is sent back at the end of Ocarina of Time (whether or not this occurs in a single or split timeline is, for the moment, irrelevant). The young Link and Zelda, rembering thier expierences, tell the King of Hyrule what a threat Ganondorf is.  Lacking concrete proof beyond the word of two small children, the King can do no more than banish Gannondorf from the realm.

Realizing that his plan is foiled, Ganon retreats to the Desert and begins to prepare to take by force what he can't by plotting. Years pass as he builds his might.

Eventually, the day comes when Ganon makes his moves. Attacking with a force of both Gerudo and monsters, Ganon sows destruction and chaos across Hyrule.  During the fighting, several things happen:

1)In the seige of Hyrule Castle,  Lon Lon Ranch is converted to (or reverts to?) a fort. It is ultimately seriously damaged or destroyed.

2) The Temple of Time is teleported, possibly through the power of the Triforce, to the Lost Woods. Theoretically, this would be to prevent Ganon from seizing the Temple when he took Hyrule Castle.

3)The Kokiri are either destroyed or decide to abandon thier village to move furhter into the Lost Woods, past the Sacred Grove.

4) Somebody that isn't Ganon uses the Triforce. That person (Zelda?) has an unbalanced heart, causing the Triforce to break. For some reason, this person  either does not tell anyone, or does not think that Ganondorf would recieve the Triforce of Power.

5) Link becomes, in personality and expierence, the warrior who teaches you sword techinques through the Howling Stones.

Eventually, Ganon is defeated, brought down by his own pride and arrogance. The Gerudo are nearly wiped out, and thier fortress becomes the basis of a new prision for the very worst of Hyrule's criminals and monsters. The Sages, realizing that he will be a threat as long as he lives, condem Ganondorf to death. As we all know, the execution fails, and Ruto is killed. In desperation, the Twilight Mirror is activated and Ganon is sealed away. The surviving sages take up an eternal vigil around the mirror.

With the Kokiri gone and Lon Lon Ranch destroyed, Link and Malon help found the villiage or Ordon in the remains of what was once the Kokiri Forest. The Lost Woods become an even more mysterious place, with the battle-scarred remains of the Forest Temple and Temple of Time crumbling into ruins. Hyrule Castle and the surround town are rebuilt, and Hyrule continues to expand its borders. Eventually, the exploits of Link merge into the greater legend of the Imprisioning War, and much is forgotten by the start of TP.

So, there you go. My explanation of why things are as they are. As you can probably see, I've put some thought into this, so please comment and critique as you see fit.

Welcome, The_Red_Blade, to the Desert Colossus. You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. You must be cautious.

Now to attack your post. :P

Quote1)In the seige of Hyrule Castle,  Lon Lon Ranch is converted to (or reverts to?) a fort. It is ultimately seriously damaged or destroyed.

What? (http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Commodore_Axilon/Forum%20Crap/psyduck.gif)

I'm not quite sure I understand this part.

Quote2) The Temple of Time is teleported, possibly through the power of the Triforce, to the Lost Woods. Theoretically, this would be to prevent Ganon from seizing the Temple when he took Hyrule Castle.

Arggh, not you too! Does nobody notice that the two temples look quite different? And there's also the fact that one is eight stories tall.

Quote4) Somebody that isn't Ganon uses the Triforce. That person (Zelda?) has an unbalanced heart, causing the Triforce to break. For some reason, this person  either does not tell anyone, or does not think that Ganondorf would recieve the Triforce of Power.

Eh? The Triforce was split at the end of OoT. I don't see why this is necessary.

QuoteEventually, Ganon is defeated, brought down by his own pride and arrogance. The Gerudo are nearly wiped out, and thier fortress becomes the basis of a new prision for the very worst of Hyrule's criminals and monsters. The Sages, realizing that he will be a threat as long as he lives, condem Ganondorf to death. As we all know, the execution fails, and Ruto is killed. In desperation, the Twilight Mirror is activated and Ganon is sealed away. The surviving sages take up an eternal vigil around the mirror.

All makes sense, but for the part about the OoT sages being the same as the TP sages. You'd think they'd know Ganon had the ToP if they were.

QuoteWith the Kokiri gone and Lon Lon Ranch destroyed, Link and Malon help found the villiage or Ordon in the remains of what was once the Kokiri Forest. The Lost Woods become an even more mysterious place, with the battle-scarred remains of the Forest Temple and Temple of Time crumbling into ruins. Hyrule Castle and the surround town are rebuilt, and Hyrule continues to expand its borders. Eventually, the exploits of Link merge into the greater legend of the Imprisioning War, and much is forgotten by the start of TP.

Aside from the Temple of Time thing, I don't think the TP Forest Temple is the same as the OoT Forest Temple either. They're way too different to be the same.

Note: Everything I didn't quote I agree with. :)

Still working out the quote system, so forgive me for not replying as stylishly as possible.

The theory I posted above was the result of a timeline some friends and I had been working out. As such, I did not explain certain aspects of it as well as should have/thought I did. The fact that I was writing at 2 AM may also have had something to do with that =).

As you were probably able to gather, I was refering to events that occured immediatly after the end of Ocarina of Time. I presume that, when Link was sent back to his childhood, he entered a timeline in which Ganondorf had not yet seized the Triforce, and thus had not been sealed away. In short, it was as if the events of the Adult Timeline had never happened. As mentioned before, whether or not the Adult Timeline continued on to become its own full-fledged timeline or wether it was a mere buble in a single timeline is irrelevant.

All this directly impacts Point 4. At Ganon's execution, all parties involved seem pretty surprised that the Triforce appeared on his hand. The sage narrating the story even describes his possesion of it as "a cosmic joke," or something to that effect. This causes me to believe that someone other than Ganon had touched the Triforce, and had somehow broke it in the process. As seems to always be the case, those that have the Triforce pieces do not know about it until the piece activates itself. In Ganon's case, he didn't know he had the ToP until someone drove a sword into his chest.

Ganon not touching the Triforce at this point would explain two things: First, if they knew Ganon had the Triforce, I think the Sages would have used the Master Sword to kill him, as opposed to the blade they did use. Second, I'm not sure if it's possible to stop a Triforce-wielding Ganon without killing him. OoT shows that he'll keep coming at you until he's got nothing left.

Lon Lon Ranch: This was my attempt to explain why the Ranch does not appear in TP. If you look at how its situtated and constructed, it does look like it would make a perfectly functional fort: high pallisade walls, constructed on a hill, and directly to the rear of the area an army beseiging Hyrule Castle would use to camp/entrench. I'm saying that it's possible that the Ranch was originally built as a fort in the same war that killed the Hero of Time's mother, or that it was used as such during this war. Either way, I figure it was destroyed in the fighting, thus explaining it's absence in TP.

The Temple of Time: Really, we didn't get to see too much of it last time around. However, I just got up to the Temple today, so I'll reserve further comment till I beat it.

The Sages: The scenario I've described occurs within the natural lifetimes of all the major players from OoT. As such, I assume it was Ruto who got a fist full of Ganon's rage. This solves one of the problems of Link's love life, as hinted at in OoT. As you remeber, Link had to betroth himself to Ruto in order to get her to hand over Zora's Saphire. 7 years on, she still seemed to be taking that oath pretty seriously. Her death would certainly free Link of his bond. Which leads us to...

The Bloodline of the Hero: We know that TP Link and the Hero of Time are of the same family, by the admission of one of the members of this bloodline (OoT Link himself?), who appears to teach you sword skills from time to time. As such, Link needs a wife.

For me, Saria was the clear emotional favorite, but was also a Kokiri and thus would remain a child. This effectively rules her out. Besides, I'm not sure if the Sages and Heroes can start mixing bloodlines.

Zelda would be the next runner up, as there did appear to be some sparks there. However, Zelda is a princess, and thus would probably have to marry for political reaons. And again, she is a Sage, so she might not even be "elegible."

This leaves us with Malon. She and Link certainly got along. She also has the red hair that seems to occur in later Heroes (TP, LttP). I think she is the the leading candidate for not only marrying Link, but founding the ranch at Ordon.

Hope this clarifies my first points. But thanks for your critique. I await your reply =)

MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS




Still, don't forget that Link could also have gotten together with someone who's NOT a major female character in the game, which I think is more likely than not.

Anyway, I do agree, though, with your saying that the Hero's Shade could be OoT Link, or at least any Link from Old Hyrule. I base some of this evidence from the fact that if you look at his sword hand, it's his left hand, just like Link's. This could be a coincidence, but if not, I consider this a strong-going theory.

I see you're working off of the opinion that the events of OoT were completely erased by Links going back in time. But I think that kind of cheapens Ganondorf's emotional tirade at the end of the game. And if you remember, this monologue occurs after Zelda sends Link back in time.

So I'm thinking that the Sacred Realm, and by extension the Triforce, is independent of time. Ergo you have quite a nice explanation for each of the Triforce holders in TP; and the fact that there's another "past" Ganondorf running around in the "real" world sets up the events of TP quite nicely.

QuoteThe Temple of Time: Really, we didn't get to see too much of it last time around. However, I just got up to the Temple today, so I'll reserve further comment till I beat it.

We certainly know it wasn't eight stories tall. And if you compare the entrances, you'll see they're similar yet quite aesthetically different.

QuoteThe Sages: The scenario I've described occurs within the natural lifetimes of all the major players from OoT. As such, I assume it was Ruto who got a fist full of Ganon's rage. This solves one of the problems of Link's love life, as hinted at in OoT. As you remeber, Link had to betroth himself to Ruto in order to get her to hand over Zora's Saphire. 7 years on, she still seemed to be taking that oath pretty seriously. Her death would certainly free Link of his bond. Which leads us to...

I'm pretty sure when you beat the Water Temple and talk to Ruto, she frees Link of his marital obligation.

And there's also the fact that they look nothing like the sages from OoT.

>_> Nintendo said that it was 100 or so years after OoT and lots of time before WW. 8)

That interview is outdated, and is from before Miyamoto turned the tables. According to a much more recent interview with Aonuma TP is 100 or so years after OoT, but not before TWW. TWW is, according to Aonuma, in the Adult Timeline.

http://www.thehylia.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1173298152&archive=&start_from=&ucat=19& (http://www.thehylia.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1173298152&archive=&start_from=&ucat=19&)

QuoteArggh, not you too! Does nobody notice that the two temples look quite different? And there's also the fact that one is eight stories tall.

Song of Storms-banned! :-*

Seriously, though, the statue in the undersea castle in TWW kills, no, utterly destroys your argument. :-* And that's just one example.

QuoteSo I'm thinking that the Sacred Realm, and by extension the Triforce, is independent of time. Ergo you have quite a nice explanation for each of the Triforce holders in TP; and the fact that there's another "past" Ganondorf running around in the "real" world sets up the events of TP quite nicely.

The Golden Land is in the same world, or same Universe. If one is to believe the Japanese version of ALttP that's not possible.

Quote from: Evilslayer on March 15, 2007, 12:12:22 PM
Song of Storms-banned! :-*

Seriously, though, the statue in the undersea castle in TWW kills, no, utterly destroys your argument. :-* And that's just one example.

What are you talking about? How does it destroy my argument?

QuoteThe Golden Land is in the same world, or same Universe. If one is to believe the Japanese version of ALttP that's not possible.

I'm assuming you believe in the split timeline, correct? How else would you explain the fact that the Triforce of Courage exists in the Adult Link timeline? You see, Zelda sends Link back in time while he has the ToC. Yet in TWW, there it is.

That's actually quite a problem with the split timeline as a whole though, doncha think? Because, if you're correct, the Triforce pieces could only stay in one of the two timelines. Unless I'm missing something really obvious here.

To me, it would certainly make sense that the "whole" Triforce of Courage exists on one path of the forked road. I think that's probably what happened.

It destroyed your argument by proving OOT wasn't erased from history.

'...When the hero goes to a new land...'

King of the Red Lions implies that the new land is past Hyrule, and the Triforce, so that it wouldn't be an incomplete power without courage, created a new one that was split and hid throughout Hyrule.

Split Timeline proven, believe it unless oyu want to be 100% wrong on timeline info.

Quote from: Kannochi on March 16, 2007, 06:19:46 PM
'...When the hero goes to a new land...'

King of the Red Lions implies that the new land is past Hyrule, and the Triforce, so that it wouldn't be an incomplete power without courage, created a new one that was split and hid throughout Hyrule.

Split Timeline proven, believe it unless oyu want to be 100% wrong on timeline info.

First of all, you can't prove that the "new land" was past Hyrule.

Second of all, nowhere is it said that a "new" ToC was created; you just pulled that out of your bum.

Third of all (?), I don't even see how that would prove a split timeline anyway.

There. Three things wrong with your theory that "proves" the split timeline. Now I'm not gonna say this "100%" proves the single timeline either, just that your "proof" is most unconvincing.

QuoteTWW NEVER claims that the Hero never returned.

"The people believed that the Hero of Time would again come to save them... But the hero did not appear. Faced by an onslaught of evil, the people could do nothing but appeal to the gods."

Well.. There it says he didn't appear to take on with Ganon. And that's why the gods flooded Hyrule. I'm sure you already knew that.