I was just thinking that maybe the identity of the Hero's Shade isnt so mysterious.
You see, he teaches Link all these special moves to help him cope with the oncoming evil. And he almost always talks about the hero of legend.
So I was thinking that maybe the Hero's Shade is a previous incarnation of Link that has come to help the present day Link. Like the link in OoT had come to help the Link in TP.
What do you'll think of this?
I'm of the mind that it is the Link from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. But I think it's general consensus that the Hero's Shade is a previous Link. Although it would awesome if it was a different Hero entirely, like the Hero of Men in The Minish Cap- a folktale hero that is not a Link.
we should use one of the topics that already exist to talk about this, we already started 3 about almost the same stuff
yes, this really isn't a unique idea, I cant tell you how many times it's been stated.
Eralk Fang, why don't you think the Hero of Men was another Link?
didn't they say his name was Gustaf or something in MC?
What Shikamaru Nara said- I'm convinced that Gustaf is the Hero of Men, not another Link. Links can't save the day all the time!
yes, tingle has to do it once, hence Tingle RPG>
Please, the only thing Tingle can save is a Force Gem. :P
Quote from: Shikamaru Nara on February 04, 2007, 03:58:46 PM
didn't they say his name was Gustaf or something in MC?
Wasn't Gustaf a past Hyrule king?
A hyrule king? No, the only names I've every heard for a Hyrule king were Nohansen. Gustaf doesnt ring a bell.
Gustaf is the dead King from The Minish Cap who is buried in Royal Valley, and appears as a ghost in game.
yes, and as a youth he had saved the world with the picori sword, becoming the hero of men, right?
I don't remember hearing that in TMC.
well it was in a special uncut version only I bought before they recalled it. So I win, you're wrong, happy me.
Doubt that......:/ No, seriously, I don't remember that being in TMC either.
I can't really say, but i don't think Minish Cap really has much to do with the Hyrule Royal family.
There's no in-game text to support the idea that the Hero of Men is Gustaf. It's just a very small theory of mine.
Quote... ...
O young one...
Child who seeks to aid
the princess of Hyrule...
My name is Gustaf...
I was king of Hyrule, countless
ages ago.
Stand before me...
Only then will the path open
to you.
-Gustaf,
The Minish CapHowever,
MasterKey, Gustaf is identified as a Hylian King- man says so himself, and Ezlo, who would have probably heard about him from history, calls him King Gustaf anytime you ask for help while you try to find Gustaf.
The Minish Cap is one of the rare Zelda games where we actually see a Hylian King, instead of just hearing about him, let alone two of them- Gustaf and Zelda's father, who goes unnamed. I'd say
The Minish Cap has something to do with the Hyrule Royal Family!
EDIT: Zelda's father's name is Daltus, according to his figurine.
I don't like the idea of King Gustaf being the hero of men (the title isn't capitalized, like Hero of Time and Hero of Wind). I think of him just as one of many Kings of Hyrule.
Gustaf was and is the Hero of Legend and Hero of Men.....MC IS FIRST DAMNIT!
That's your personal timeline, MattAlxdr. A great deal of fandom believes Ocarina of Time comes first. And do you have any further proof of Gustaf's identity as the Hero of Men other than what we have previously discussed?
just joking around... :D
But yes the Hero's Shade/Golden Wolf seems to be OoT's Link.
The Hero of Men is a Link we haven't seen yet. I think it was the FSDS(untitled) that Nintendo had planned(they then went to PH instead).
I remember reading somewhere that in the Japanese version, Gustaf says "I am the ancient hero and savior of Hyrule." but the source could not be correct....
Though it doesn't make much sense timeline wise... the Hero of Men sounds like the Link from LoZ.
technically that could make sense Bboy94, give urself some more credit ;D ... (in my timeline neways)
who says the hero of men has to be a Link? There are other heroes you know...just becuase Link is the only one you use...
How do you know? No other mentioned hero has been succesful otherwise other than Link. That and he looks alot like Link, only he doesn't have a cap.
Because we know about every single hero in the history of Hyrule, am i rite
Hahah.
Well, Link has been unsuccessful in the past (per The Wind Waker's prologue), as he never even showed up at one point.
Hylians tend to be fair-haired, and a green tunic doesn't automatically mean "THIS MAN IS LINK".
Hero of Men:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZeIao2UCGo
Hatless!Link:
http://www.thehylia.com/media/displayimage.php?album=2&pos=20
The Hero of Men wears a circlet and has sideburns. It's completely possible that this is a Link, but why does Link always have to save the day? It's also perfectly plausible there are Heroes outside of the various Links we play as.
ZOMG, different haircut. Look at AoL or LttP Link, they have tottally different hairstyles from the rest.
You're using the same hair color and clothing to qualify the Hero of Men as a Link. Using facial hair and different head accessories (all the Links wear pointy hats, after all) to disqualify him as a Link is no different.
The various Links have similar hairstyles (they all have the same shaggy bangs), if different hair colors. Can't expect them to stay that blond forever, you know?
A point for the Gustaf as Hero of Men camp; the prologue of The Minish Cap specifically notes he drove out the darkness with "wisdom and courage". Okay, most battle heroes are going to be considered to have courage. However, they specifically state "wisdom". Bboy94's idea that the Hero of Men is a Link makes him a Triforce bearer, specifically of Courage. However, the Royal Family is always linked with the Triforce of Wisdom, specifically though its female members. Could Gustaf, as the Hero of Men, be the first male bearer of the Triforce of Wisdom? A sort of Kwisatz Haderach, if you will, of the Hylian Royal Family?
Well Link had both wisdom and power in AoL(and the end of LoZ).
So he could be either a hero or not, we can't determine it, we can't tell, for now(but who else wears a green tunic).
Quote from: Bboy94 on March 24, 2007, 06:15:09 PM
(but who else wears a green tunic).
... Uh, well, seeing as how tunics are just a clothing item, and a lot of people wear them in Zelda... It's possible that one of them decided, "Hey, I feel like wearing
green today!"
I mean, I seriously doubt if it's like... against the law to wear the same colour as the Hero of Time/Wind. owo At the beginning of Windwaker, it says that people on Outset traditionally garb their male children in green when they come of age. That means Orca, Sturgeon, Abe... They all wore green tunics at tWW Link's age. They aren't heroes. They wore green tunics.
Yes, but everyone also comments on how wierd it is to wear it.
Quote from: Bboy94 on March 24, 2007, 07:00:12 PM
Yes, but everyone also comments on how wierd it is to wear it.
That's because in tWW, no one wore tunics anymore, they graduated to lobster jammies. o: I'm sure it was totally okay back in OoT time or whenever. Also, Purlo wears a green shirt. I can't remember if it's a tunic or not, though.... (probably not)
Purlo dresses like Tingle though.
Within the world of the game, though, Purlo doesn't dress like Tingle. He just dresses like himself. Green's a common color.
Have you ever seen anyone(other than Link) wearing a green tunic in Zelda though.
The entire Kokiri race, anyone?
There's distinctive clothing and then there's just colors. Zelda's royal gowns are all designed pretty much along the same lines, no matter which Zelda we're talking about. Seeing an unnamed female character in clothes along the same lines (pink gown, tabard with royal crest, the gold shoulder pads and circlet) would give us reason to assume that this hypothetical female character may be part of the Hylian Royal Family- she's got the crest and distinctive jewelry. Link's clothes are nowhere near as distinctive.
Tunics are fairly common in Zelda; they're common enough to be trade items between races that don't wear clothing and races that do.
QuoteA point for the Gustaf as Hero of Men camp; the prologue of The Minish Cap specifically notes he drove out the darkness with "wisdom and courage".
In the whole Zelda series that description is used ONLY for Link. Zelda is Wisdom and Ganon is Power. Link is the only one who's ever been described as mastering two virtues.
QuoteA point for the Gustaf as Hero of Men camp; the prologue of The Minish Cap specifically notes he drove out the darkness with "wisdom and courage".
Ah yes, because other people can't have wisdom or courage, two intangible items that I suppose
anyone can have given the right mindset, because it
must be referring to the Triforce.
Edited to make sure there was no confusion as to whom the post was directed.
Evilslayer; to tweak the phrase, descriptions do not make the man. Various characters are described as wise other than Zelda, powerful other than Ganondorf, and courageous other than Link. Possessing these qualities of wisdom and courage do not make them a Triforce bearer (as Commodore Axilon reminds me) or a specific person.
Commodore Axilon, I'm not saying that it means, without a doubt, that the Hero of Men was gifted with a Triforce piece. There is scant evidence for the case that Gustaf is the Hero of Men; working backwards with that goal in mind, that particular example pops out, with the Royal Family's connection to the Triforce of Wisdom, thereby, the virtue of wisdom. He may not have had the specific Triforce of Wisdom, but Hyrule seems to value wisdom in their rulers. Of course, that links back to anyone at all capable of having wisdom. That's the problem with the case for Gustaf as the Hero of Men: there's just no evidence for or against.
I don't think the Hero of Men is a Link. I'd like to be able to prove without a doubt it was King Gustaf, but there is simply not enough evidence for or against it to make any definitive conclusion. We may never learn his identity.
Quote from: Eralk Fang on March 25, 2007, 10:26:16 AM
The entire Kokiri race, anyone?
There's distinctive clothing and then there's just colors. Zelda's royal gowns are all designed pretty much along the same lines, no matter which Zelda we're talking about. Seeing an unnamed female character in clothes along the same lines (pink gown, tabard with royal crest, the gold shoulder pads and circlet) would give us reason to assume that this hypothetical female character may be part of the Hylian Royal Family- she's got the crest and distinctive jewelry. Link's clothes are nowhere near as distinctive.
Tunics are fairly common in Zelda; they're common enough to be trade items between races that don't wear clothing and races that do.
How specific must I be?
Have you ever seen any Hylian/Human(other than Link) wearing a green tunic in Zelda though.
Specific enough to make me think that if I dress like George Sand, I must be her!
The tradition of the Hero's clothes stems from the Hero of Time's Kokiri heritage, making the Kokiri point just as valid.
And let's see... who wears lots of green in tunic-like fashions?
Guard from A Link to the Past:
http://www.thehylia.com/media/albums/images/alttp/characters_6.jpg
Old guy from Oracle of Seasons/Ages:
http://www.thehylia.com/media/albums/images/ooa/z07_13_big.jpg
This guy from Link's Awakening:
http://www.thehylia.com/media/displayimage.php?album=29&pos=3
Those don't look like tunics to me.
That last one is styled almost exactly (laced details and all) like the top of Link's various tunics.
Tunics, green or no, are a common piece of clothing in Old Hyrule (and latter New Hyrule). They're linked specifically to the Kokiri; Link wears a green tunic due to being raised Kokiri. This is where the tradition of the Hero's Clothes comes from; it's a Kokiri thing, which is why it's not so common place to see specifically forest green tunics all over Hyrule. But tunics are still common enough to sell in shops all over the land, and common enough that Like Likes have a specific taste for them. It is totally plausible that somebody else in Zelda has ever looked at a green tunic and thought "oh, I'll wear that today!".
Thing is though, its a video game, why would Nintendo make him look like that if he wasn't going to be a Link/
You can look at it through the lens of a gaming consumer, which is what you're doing, Bboy94. However, in theorizing, you must look at Zelda through the lens of its own reality, like you would literature.
Nintendo references many other Heroes than Link, especially of different races, but also of races similar to Hylians; Colin's heroic status is hinted at in Twilight Princess.
And technically, the Hero of Men doesn't look like Link; the aforementioned sideburns, circlet. Bangs also factor into this; no Link has ever gone without bangs, but the Hero of Men doesn't have them whatsoever. The only similarity is hair color and tunic color. Green is also a color associated with divine courage in Hyrule; why wouldn't a warrior Hero wear it, no matter if he was Link or not?
I haven't actually played TMC, so this might sound pretty stupid.
You actually see the Hero of Men in the game? I thought it was merely a legend, or something.
He appears in the game's short prologue, along with a specific image of him holding the Picori Blade aloft.
EDIT: A specific picture-
http://www.zelda-infinite.com/games/minishcap/prologue3.jpg
QuoteNintendo references many other Heroes than Link, especially of different races, but also of races similar to Hylians; Colin's heroic status is hinted at in Twilight Princess.
Ö Colin is teh Hero of Men!
Quote from: Eralk Fang on March 30, 2007, 01:10:26 PM
He appears in the game's short prologue, along with a specific image of him holding the Picori Blade aloft.
EDIT: A specific picture-
http://www.zelda-infinite.com/games/minishcap/prologue3.jpg
I saw the video you posted that I apparently missed earlier (whoops!), and I don't think those are supposed to be taken as realistic representations of the event. It's like saying that because the picture of Ganon that appeared in TWW prologue doesn't look like the OoT Ganon then it's not referencing the same event.
They look more to me like something that would've been made after the fact, i.e. the Picori Sword probably didn't fall to earth bathed in a golden light with angels singing in the background and the Hero of Men receiving it in a dramatic pose. ;D
Hm... after re-reading this topic, I realized something... no one said anything about the Hero's Shade wolf form.
WARNING: spoilers below, don't read if you haven't beaten the game or don't know who the final boss is
Okay, so the Hero's Shade's wolf form looks a little like this:
Click and watch (http://youtube.com/watch?v=mkUfOZVgJmM) (I'm sorry, I can't get any decent pictures of his wolf form)
Wolf Link looks like this:
(http://www.zelda-fans.com/wp-content/images/_Twilight%20Princess%20new%20artwork%2004.jpg)
And Dark Beast Ganon looks like this:
Once again, click and watch (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BbMgr5ALE7k) (Augh, getting official art of these guys is such a pain!)
Okay, well, look on their sides. They all have the same distinguishing marking; a white line that ends in almost a wing-like mark. I think it may be a sign of those "blessed by the Goddesses;" in other words, a mark to show they bear the Triforce.
Also, the Hero's Shade is left-handed, and we all know who else is left-handed... Link. And of course, there's the part about him wanting to teach Link the ways of the sword, being a wolf (doesn't everyone except Link/Zelda/Ganon get turned into either a monster of a spirit? I mean, he's not necessarily in the twilight, but being a wolf would mean something, yes? Plus, he appears to have the power to be either Hylian/Lupine at will; he howls and becomes Hylian.) and being somewhat offended at TP Link wearing the hero's clothes when he doesn't even know how to fight very well.
So I'm going to go ahead and say that the Hero's Shade is, in fact, a previous Link. However, I have no idea which Link.
Well, seeing as how most of the stuff is linked to OoT (except making the LttP connection, how the MS got into the Lost Woods), he's OoT Link. Also, OoT Link was the only one that old enough to have that size clothes.
Yes, your hypothesis, MK, is very plausible. I was thinking the same thing. He did even mention something like, "Although I tried to be the hero..." At this point in time, the only hero to save Hyrule or any other land in the Zelda series was Link (excluding the CD-i games). That seems to narrow it down quite a bit if you ask me.
...It's not like Link can't grow up, he's not a child forever, you know. Or it could be a new Link from a new game. o_o;
But I do think it makes sense that it's OOT/MM Link.
But they wouldn't really been known as the Hero's clothes anymore though.