I was thinking about the ending of Twilight when Ganon died, and it showed Zants face smiling and then it looked like he killed Ganon. Also, ganon might have ressurected Zant right after he died, because Zant said Ganon would bring him back whenever he died. Any ideas on if this is even slightly possible?
I think it was implied that Zant killed himself to "kill" Ganondorf. I'm sure even he didn't know that ol' Dragmire would resurrect himself.
Zant might have realized that this wasn't a god who gave him power, but a humanoid. (Gerudo) Both this and losing to Link might have made him realize his dream isn't true and destroyed his own spirit (body already gone) to kill the one who lied to him.
Or, Ganon's death could have either made him commit suicide or die for unknown reasons, probably the link (no pun intended) to Ganon.
No, I ressurected him.....Trust me, I really did..
My guess always was that the two were connected like Demona and Macbeth were in Gargoyles (only with another life-death system). In case you have missed one of the best cartoons ever created, Demona and Macbeth's lives were connected when he gave her his youth if she would help him win the war. Ganondorf uses Twili powers and Zant definetly got some of Ganondorf's powers. Also, I can't help but see a connection between TWW Ganondorf and Zant. Even if Zant realized Ganondorf wasn't a god,..... would you kill the only person who was prepared to help you, just because he isn't what he claims to be (yet (if things would've gone according to plan, he would've been a god))? One can consider Ganondorf a cruel man, but I don't recall any situation in which he turned against his followers.
I think that Zant was killed by Midna's royal Twili powers, Ganondorf being able to revive him. When Link impaled Ganondorf, it couldn't have killed him because the Triforce protected him (the Master Sword has never been able to kill Ganondorf while he had the ToP). For some reason, the ToP went away though, making Ganondorf a dying man. With him gone, Zant also really dies (having no one left to resurrect him), symbolized by the whole neck-snapping scene.
Yeah, but Zant seemed happy when he snapped his neck. And right after, Ganons eyes went fishy-eye dead. And what connection with TWW Ganon? That was the adult timeline.
I think he looks rather neutral.
Also, I want to point out that we do not know how much time passed between those events. I always thought they happened at the same time, not after eachother.
And, I don't believe the split timeline, but assuming it's true: TP Ganondorf and TWW Ganondorf had the same start, OOT Ganondorf. TWW G most likely refered to his actions of back then, meaning that (the basis for) his character is shared with TP G.
You must also take into account that Zant is comepletely off his rocker.
(At least, I deduced that from his dances and contortionist moves.)
Also, I rather thought that Zant and Ganondorf's deaths happened simultaneouly, and that by Ganondorf's Triforce of Power fading, he died (at least for now) and it severed the connection between Zant and Ganon, ultimately snapping Zant's neck.
QuoteI don't believe the split timeline
How many times will I hear that? IT HAS BEEN SAID THERE IS A SPLIT TIMELINE!!!!!!!!!!!
I still believe that Ganon's death caused Zan't death (in one form or another) or Zant killed himself to kill Ganon.
Zant isn't that noble or heroic.
Quote from: Kannochi on March 27, 2007, 10:42:14 AM
QuoteI don't believe the split timeline
How many times will I hear that? IT HAS BEEN SAID THERE IS A SPLIT TIMELINE!!!!!!!!!!!
I still believe that Ganon's death caused Zan't death (in one form or another) or Zant killed himself to kill Ganon.
And what else has been said that turned out to be flase or bull?
Answer: a lot.
Unless they are gonna use the split in the games, I'm not taking it as canon.
SHIKAMARU EDIT: Umm...yeah...just took care of the swearing...been there for a while now...bye...
QuoteZant isn't that noble or heroic.
People can change.
Especially when it turns out the person who was thought to be helping you lied about everything, and used you as nothing more than a pawn in his master plan.
QuoteAnd what else has been said that turned out to be flase or bullsh*t?
Answer: a lot.
Unless they are gonna use the split in the games, I'm not taking it as canon.
Finally someone else agrees with me about this. I was lonely there for a while.
The things that has been contradicted were stated
when the game was in development. Besides, they have referred to the Split Timeline in the past.
QuotePeople can change. Especially when it turns out the person who was thought to be helping you lied about everything, and used you as nothing more than a pawn in his master plan.
Yes. But it would be kind of drastic. And suddenly. And it is
corruption that brought Zant down the path of evil. Those villains are harder to change than most other types.
Yay, some other people think Nintendo is screwing with us over the timeline! Did Zant actually find out Ganon was just using him? I think Zant was a psycopath, but not suicidal.
QuoteAnd what else has been said that turned out to be flase or bullshit?
Umm, LadyNintendo, if you look at the Word Ban List topic in the Announcements and News section, you'll find you can't use that word. I think that was during your absent period, so mabye you didn't know. Still, try not use any of these words again.
Here's what I think the whole neck-snapping thing means. Back in the Palace of Twilight, Zant said that even if he died, as long as Ganondorf lived, he would continue to be resurrected. I think the scene at the end of the game where Zant's neck snaps is supposed to symbolize that Ganondorf is dead, and as a result, Zant is also dead but cannot be resurrected.
How was Link able to kill Ganondorf? I believe it was because not only did he have the Master Sword, which has the power to banish evil, but because he also had the power of the Triforce. Link also exploited, for lack of a better word, a weak spot on Ganondorf's body: the wound he recieved from his sentencing when he was going to be banished to the Twilight Realm. I think having all of these factors working for him enabled him to kill Ganondorf.
I just realized this shouldn't be in Timeline, but in Theories...moving now...
You obviously thought very well into it, TW, and I agree entirely with you. There is still the possibility that Zant found out Ganon had no care for him, and angrily or another emotion-ly destoryed his own spirit to kill Ganon.
Quote from: LadyNintendo on March 31, 2007, 10:04:45 AM
Quote from: Kannochi on March 27, 2007, 10:42:14 AM
QuoteI don't believe the split timeline
How many times will I hear that? IT HAS BEEN SAID THERE IS A SPLIT TIMELINE!!!!!!!!!!!
I still believe that Ganon's death caused Zan't death (in one form or another) or Zant killed himself to kill Ganon.
And what else has been said that turned out to be flase or bullshit?
Answer: a lot.
Unless they are gonna use the split in the games, I'm not taking it as canon.
Your your saying that even if the story writter for the sieries says it is split, it
still isn't canon? Aunonuma (how the heck do you spell his name?) confermed it.
Yes, because creator's intent is retarded when trying to logically discuss something using in-universe information.
Edit: Not to mention he's wildly inconsistent. The great ever-changing story is not a great way to gauge something's validity.
Okay people, this isn't a discussion about timelines..I can't even believe we started talking about timelines, it's completely unrelated...
I think TW has a very good point, though. I mean, look at the timing of the neck snap compared to the apparent confirmation of Ganondorf's death.
Isn't that pretty much what I said, with maybe a little different view on what caused Ganondorf's death?
Quote from: LadyNintendo on July 06, 2007, 12:49:15 AM
Isn't that pretty much what I said, with maybe a little different view on what caused Ganondorf's death?
No, I don't believe so. I wouldn't have posted my theory if I thought what it contained had already been said. Actually, I wanted to make sure in advance that my theory was, for the most part, original, before I posted it.
And actually, I agree with your idea that Zant was killed by Midna's Twili powers. What I am unclear on, however, is whether or not Zant was resurrected by Ganondorf after he was killed in this way. After thinking it over, I believe he may have been revived, but not for very long. I think that if he were dead before the battle with Ganondorf, there would be no need for the whole neck-snapping thing. And to tie this all together, it may be that once Ganondorf was killed by Link, whatever power Ganondorf transferred to Zant to revive him left both of them at once, and they both died as a result, hence the neck-snap scene.
Don't worry, I didn't intend to accuse you of plagiarism. :) I noticed out theories are very similar. Whether Zant actually was resurrected of only half dead beacuse of the link with Ganondorf, the accompanying theory is the same. Point is that people (Whocares) quite suddenly changed their opinion, considering how similar our theories are. I found that odd.
One of my many factors is that I can quickly change my opinion over something. :'(
Well, TW posted the thoery more recently, and few people ever bother reading the old part of the discussion, even if it actually holds important stuff.
Maybe he wasn't resurected. It seemed to me like Ganon was calling out to Zant for help, but then the neck snapping scene shows that Zant is dead and cannot aid him. Which Ganondorf didn't know.
I think Ganondorf would definitely know if Zant died. I mean, if I imbued some of my being into another person, and that suddenly ceased to exist, I would notice. I think. Then again, I've never done it ::)
Well, whats it like when you kill someone that is trapped in shadow possesion. That sort of connection could be similar.
I doubt it's as serious as that, since Ganondorf didn't die the first time you killed Zant.
No, you misunderstand. It wasn't that killing Zant killed Ganondorf, it was that Ganondorf couldn't get help from Zant because he was dead.
I actually hoped that Zant would turn good after you defeated him instead of him getting impaled by hair. I liked him he was awsome, then he screwed it up by going emo during the boss fight.
Eh, I think there's still a possibility that Zant will return. He did say that as long as Ganondorf was alive, he could return. As we probably all know, Ganondorf will come back to life sooner or later, thereby letting Zant come back as well.
That's all I got. ;)
While Zant's personality disorder in TP was unexpected, I think it made him unique, and, added to understanding his motives. Could give some nice effects in a Boss battle if he'd ever return without Ganondorf's help.
Can't we have a sane boss for once? Majora danced around and sang when fighting, Zant went emo, and WW Ganon started luaghing even when he knew he was going to drown.
Since when have any of the Zelda villains been sane? I'd hardly call trying to take over/destroy the world a "sane" thing to do.
Quote from: Iron Knuckle on July 09, 2007, 04:08:51 PM
Can't we have a sane boss for once? Majora danced around and sang when fighting, Zant went emo, and WW Ganon started laughing even when he knew he was going to drown.
Most bosses go berserk at one point during the fight; I wouldn't call any one of them sane.
Quote from: LadyNintendo on July 10, 2007, 11:16:40 AM
Quote from: Iron Knuckle on July 09, 2007, 04:08:51 PM
Can't we have a sane boss for once? Majora danced around and sang when fighting, Zant went emo, and WW Ganon started laughing even when he knew he was going to drown.
Most bosses go berserk at one point during the fight; I wouldn't call any one of them sane.
I don't recall Vaati or Veran wigging out. I can't remember about Onox.
Quote from: Iron Knuckle on July 10, 2007, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: LadyNintendo on July 10, 2007, 11:16:40 AM
Quote from: Iron Knuckle on July 09, 2007, 04:08:51 PM
Can't we have a sane boss for once? Majora danced around and sang when fighting, Zant went emo, and WW Ganon started laughing even when he knew he was going to drown.
Most bosses go berserk at one point during the fight; I wouldn't call any one of them sane.
I don't recall Vaati or Veran wigging out. I can't remember about Onox.
Well, Vaati turned desperate. He fought you twice in TMC, and then he grew desperate and didn't want to have failed to child.
Or at least, that's how I remember it; I haven't played TMC in a while.
And besides, flipping out isn't the only way one can be insane. Yes, Zant did, but... well, he's Zant.
True, but it seems its the only way a Zelda final boss can go insane.
Quote from: Iron Knuckle on July 10, 2007, 05:57:48 PM
True, but it seems its the only way a Zelda final boss can go insane.
...?? Ganon laughs. That doesn't seem that insane to me. He's not flipping out flying everywhere like Zant does.
I can't say for sure whether he is or not. It's been a long time since I've last beaten it. But from what I remember I think he is dead. So yes.
Onox never flipped out, he is actually a sane villian. Veran, however, did, and turned into all those demonic animal transformations.
Excuse me, but you don't have to wig out to be insane. There are many subtler shades of psychosis.
I was using "insane" by the definition of wigging out. ;)
WHOCARES, THE VOICE OF REASON
So elts et back to Zant. He's insane, and he's dead. Yep, the pretty much covers it. ::)
The voice of reason has spoken. Be afriad. ;D
Is there anything else we need to discuss about Zant breaking his neck?
I don't believe that Zant broke his neck. I'm not sure that this has been said or not, I only read the first and third pages, and even then, I only sort of breezed through them all, but it seems to me that worship is never really stoppable. Even when someone is disillusioned about their beliefs, they still believe in them...
Just because Zant wasn't resurrected before Ganon died does not mean that the bond between them was severed. Seeing as how the connection between them relied on Zant, and that was the only reason that he was still being kept alive, I think it was really Zant soul that was feeding Ganon his power, and when Ganon was about to die, Zant realized how weak his 'God' really was.
The twisting of his neck was like how a dog looks at someone when they say something weird. Sort of a, 'huh?' kind of thing. Then, Zant severed the connection between the two of them, allowing them both to die... but who knows why Ganon came back? I don't believe that a splittist timeline is canon at all, so I can't explain the recurrence of Ganon in the next games, but I think that Zant definitely severed the connection between the two of them.
Even though it pains me to admit it, because Zant was the second coolest Zelda character ever, I believe him to be totally, irrevocably and unequivocally dead.
Cheers,
VUDAZ