The Desert Colossus

Well, are you a Democrat or Republican?

Note: In no way is this made to start an argument or debate. If it becomes one or both, this will be lcoked, but the poll will still be open. Try not to do anything that will start either.

I'm part of no party. There are things I agree and disagree with for both parties (I'm against the Democrat's view of taking the troops out of Iraq, for example) so being part of specific 'party' seems useless to me. I'd really rather vote for someone who is the most reasonable choice instead of someone who is part of my 'party' but has terrible views.

I don't choose. I would rather think what I think without worrying if it's in line with a bunch of gray-headed old guys. I'm sure I have Democratic beliefs as well as Republican, and I'm fine with that.

I try not to vote as a partisan, meaning that I stick to my party.  Rather, I try to vote as a trustee, meaning I vote for what I think is right, Republican or Democrat.  But it just so happens that most of my beliefs coincide with the Republican party.

Also, I don't think you can get away with starting a Republican/Democrat topic without there being any debate or argument over the issues.

I am mostly democratic, but I wouldn't vote for the Democratic candidate if they were doing something I thought wrong.

No, I mean serious flame debates like dan_the_man's topic. That turned into flame, so I'd ratehr not let this turn into a major debate topic, but a simpler one.

Democrat. But I'm about as progressive and left as you can get.

I have a feeling that I'm going to be backed into a corner on this.

I'm Republican, but I agree with some Democratic beliefs. And I think a mod may want to lock this and keep the poll open instead of keeping it open to flame.

Democrat. I'm probably the most liberal person here.

I'll see where it goes, it seems pretty calm right now.

dont worry GF, im on your side

I don't know or care, and I get the parties confused at times. XD

I'm with the peaceful treehugging party, I guess. XD

I don't care much for politics. But when it does come to it, like at the beginning of History, I usually side  with the democrats. It really depends on what the president/ governor/ mayor's veiws are. For example, Barack Obama (Current Senator of Illinois) is a democrat and supports abortion, and I agree with him, but I'm sure there is some republican party that is against illigal immigration, and I'm against illigal immigration as well.

Quote from: Commodore XIII on May 18, 2007, 12:07:20 PM
Democrat. I'm probably the most liberal person here.

Is that a challenge?

QuoteI don't care much for politics. But when it does come to it, like at the beginning of History, I usually side  with the democrats. It really depends on what the president/ governor/ mayor's veiws are. For example, Barack Obama (Current Senator of Illinois) is a democrat and supports abortion, and I agree with him, but I'm sure there is some republican party that is against illigal immigration, and I'm against illigal immigration as well.

Yeay for liking Barack! And could you elaborate on the immigration thing? Because, for example, I am against illegal immigration, but I don't think these people are criminals, the system needs to be reworked so is not about keeping them out, its about regulation of criminals and such.

Of course they are against illegal immigration, that's why it's illegal. 8)I think we need to find some way to tighten security...I don't think it's that big of a deal though, probably just a minor nuisance.

QuoteI don't care much for politics. But when it does come to it, like at the beginning of History, I usually side  with the democrats. It really depends on what the president/ governor/ mayor's veiws are. For example, Barack Obama (Current Senator of Illinois) is a democrat and supports abortion, and I agree with him, but I'm sure there is some republican party that is against illigal immigration, and I'm against illigal immigration as well.

So you agree with abortion rights?

A guy on tv. last night made a good point of if we create this huge fence, it wouldn't be too different than the Berlin wall.

Actually it would. It's seperating countries, not a city, and people could still get through.

Just a comparison. But why do you think people cross the border, illegally, now? Because they can't get though otherwise, and they are trying to escape poverty.

Hooo boy...

I'm not sure if you're old enough to really understand abortion rights, violinist. But then again, you've shown a remarkable understanding for things a lot of 10 year olds wouldn't dream of understanding.

People have killed because their beliefs were so strong that they channeled their feelings to harm others. No one else has the right to dictate how one lives one's life, except for oneself. The thing isn't about abortion inasmuch as it is about control, to an extent, men, who have no understanding of what a woman has to do and cannot do by her own choice, force it so that the woman has no or very little power in relation to her life.

To use scare tactics and terrorism to force other people into believing what you believe isn't the right thing at all... it's not just abortion to which this issue is tangible to.

Well women really should be able to choose themselves. And JQ made an especially good point about how these old white men think they know whats best about these womens choices.

I'm non-partisan. Part of me really likes the idea of stringent government control to make things supposedly and hopefully for the better (democratic) and the other part of me is very much against limiting constitutional rights to achieve the goal (republican). This...is a problem. :B Because it then makes it very difficult to balance potential solutions to problems.
So I sort of like to think of myself as a Bull-Moose Tree-Hugger, if ever such a thing were possible.  ;)

I view some things republican too, I guess.
But the thing that keeps me democratic is the whole abortion debate. If you really care, I'm pro-choice (highlight the text, I don't wanna fight over it).

It's hard for me, as a man to form a good argument for or against abortion.  As for the allowing illegal immigration, do you think the ends justifies the means.  If a poor Mexican resident crosses illegaly and becomes a hardworking American citizen, does that make him/her ok?

NO, it does not, becuase no matter how hard they work to try and elevate themselves in American society, they are still ILLEGAL. If they just go through the system, I'd have no problem with them...

as for what I am, I'm a Republican by mind and soul. Just the way it is.

Heh...

I wonder if it's actually possible for them to go through the system... Just a question...

Probably not much hope, sad to say, I'm friends with a few kids who had to go through the system coming from Russia, and they say its like near impossible cause it's a total pain in the a**.

Which is a main reason why they'll resort to such desperate measures...

Quote from: Gamefreak on May 19, 2007, 06:04:02 AM
It's hard for me, as a man to form a good argument for or against abortion.  As for the allowing illegal immigration, do you think the ends justifies the means.  If a poor Mexican resident crosses illegaly and becomes a hardworking American citizen, does that make him/her ok?

Of course, why should it be illegal to escape poverty and become a hardworking citizen. We shouldn't be trying to keep them out, we should be trying to make it so they don't have to come in illegally.

Well, you can't just walk in and be all like "Hey, is it ok if I come over here k thx(pardon the internet language)."  There obviously has to be some measures taken to keep people from just walking in at will.

QuoteThere obviously has to be some measures taken to keep people from just walking in at will.

Don't worry about that, people will be walking out soon enough.

What do you mean by that?

Quote from: Rincewind on May 19, 2007, 03:20:24 PM
Don't worry about that, people will be walking out soon enough.

Yup, Rincewind, keep up your arrogant and idiotic attitude. It's people like you that make this coutry the most hated in the world. People walk out of the country becuase of people like you. So keep it up.

Becuase of the rules here and all, I cannot even convey how annoyed I am by this comment...

Please elaborate, Rincewind.

I may be pissed, but, by all means, do elaborate as to why you'd say such.

Ah... illegal immigrants. I'm totally okay with them, I live in South Texas, after all. I mean, as long as they speak English and are genuinely citizen-like, they should be a citizen by my book. (even if they are illegal immigrants, I think they deserve the right to vote, I mean, they need to be able to pick who's in charge of everyone. Maybe some other, more basic rights as well, but not all rights; they are illegal, after all.)

And as for abortion... Ugh, I'm so pissed at that topic. XD (sorry if that word offends anyone; I'm not too fond of the word myself, I just had to convey my feelings) I mean, sometimes a woman doesn't have a choice as to whether or not they get pregnant or not. What if, say, a teenager got raped, and pregnant? I certainly would not want to have a baby in high school; it would look terrible on a resume, and it wouldn't even be my fault. Childbirth is a very painful thing from what I've heard, as well, so why not let them abort?

I don't know; a lot of the people against it are guys and probably wouldn't understand as well as a woman. I mean no offense to the guys on the forums; it's just that... it's easier to side when you're the same gender as the one you're discussing. XD

There are...a lot :B of illegal Mexican immigrants residing in a particular sector of my town. Many illegal immigrants are fine people, however, as is applicable to everybody, I'm not cool with the brigands. An illegal Mexican beat to death an elderly Mexican-American woman in her convenience store and robbed it of the total 60 dollars in her till. That happened last summer, and it was unfortunate.
However, I've been a client of and an employee to several horse barns where Mexican immigrants have been employed as well. Some of the barns did employ illegal immigrants, and some of the owners and trainers were kind enough to find them  English tutors and to help them "legalize" themselves. Some were not, but I'd say the vast majority of those men I've met were good and hard-working people.
I'm not sure where this is going. Or supposed to be going. :3

I wildly dislike this idea that someone else can choose for me whether I'm allowed an abortion or not. I'm pro-choice, definitely, and I'd be horrified to not have that option. I've had a few friends who were raped and became pregnant. Two of them got abortions, thankfully, and one didn't. She made a real crappy mommy. I feel bad for the kid, because she abandons it with her boyfriend's mom while she disappears for a few weeks on cocaine binges. She didn't believe in having an abortion. So she saved the child's body but kills its spirit? Whatever. Her choice.
Because, to be honest? Abortions would happen and have always happened, whether they are/were legal or illegal. When they're legal, they're in clinics with qualified doctors. When they're illegal, more often than not, they're by sick monsters in the back of somebody's butchery with a hook or a dirty knife or a skewer. Yeah. Real nice. So abortions are murder to some people? Well, making abortion illegal means making abortion clinics a black market affair, and that gives twisted individuals their chance to grant a grisly and tortuous death to the mother.
And another thing! (I can go on for a while on this) Pro-choice can be a conservative value also. Because isn't it so that the human body is a possession of itself? I own my own body, nobody else does. So if somebody rapes me, my property is being infringed upon and violated by someone else and their resulting baby. So I can "evict" that being from my body. Some would argue that it's an issue of that being's right to life, but it's my constitutional right to protect my own property.

Quote from: MasterKey on May 19, 2007, 03:33:27 PM

Quote from: Rincewind on May 19, 2007, 03:20:24 PM
Don't worry about that, people will be walking out soon enough.

Yup, Rincewind, keep up your arrogant and idiotic attitude. It's people like you that make this coutry the most hated in the world. People walk out of the country becuase of people like you. So keep it up.

Becuase of the rules here and all, I cannot even convey how annoyed I am by this comment...

Yeah, there certainly is no other reason to hate America than that kind of comment. Seriously, give me 20 seconds and I can come up with about 15 reasons why people (could) hate America.

Anyway, I'm with the party that has the (in my opinion) best views. And that tend to be lefties.

I agree. I mean, I understand that the immigrants want to get in the U.S. so badly, but do they have to do it illegally? If crossing the border illegally was legal, everyone would be doing it. But the main concern is that they're taking our jobs, kind of overcrowding some cities, and that they're having kids just so they can say "My kid was born in America, so I can stay here with them!" I think I heard a while ago that they weren't going to tolerate that. They have to either go back to their own country and take their kids with them, or go back to their own country and leave their kids with someone they know well enough that is a legal citizen to take care of the child. As for around where I live, it's a rule that illegal immigrants can't have a job in our town.

Any way, back ontopic. I'm Democrat.

actually vaati... that whole post was on topic

I think they should have a tougher system of keeping the illegal immigrants out. However, I don't like the idea of kicking out illegal immigrants who have worked hard to come as far as they do.

And I thank you, Collaboration. You said my veiws better than I could.

Quote from: Vaati on May 20, 2007, 04:51:18 AM
But the main concern is that they're taking our jobs

Uh... well, I don't know about that. I kind of agree, but well, I think that if they do the job well, then that's not really taking a job; it's just that they're okay with minimum wage or lower. I mean, a lot of immigrants come in to avoid poverty, and they're probably glad to just have SOME money. The people who had the job beforehand would be used to the sheltered life, and wouldn't accept lower; as such, they are booted out because the boss doesn't want to have to pay more and have less employees to do the work.

But... myeh. Overcrowding can be because of Illegal Immigrants and being against abortion, wow. 8D; But... I don't know.

I think that the US should try and help to fix up Mexico (after we get done trying to "fix up" the middle east) so that the illegal immigrants wouldn't mind being in Mexico so much, and as such, would stay in Mexico. Of course, I don't think it'd be too cool if they rebelled against it and tried to bomb us or something. D:

I dunno, people should be able to have a job and make their own choices. Money and country/state borders seem to be making the lower half of the US and Mexico a battlefield. Yet, they also provide a type of order... Ugh, it's confusing DX If money didn't exist, then lots of things wouldn't be, but other stuff would...

I  generally could care less about politics.
But I  am   a bit  prochoice in these situations:

Rape
Last resort to save mother
If the child has an  extremely painful incurable disease
The condom broke (esp if underage)

Other than that I generally don't give a hoot about what's happening in politics.

Hmph. I'm going with Democrat. Need I say why?

That would help.  Nothing annoys me more in politics than ignorant fools(Democrat or Republican) who don't know what they stand for when they say they stand for something.

Not meant for anyone here, but alot of the time, people just say "Im a Lefty cause i just dont like Bush" or "I'm a Republican cause I can't stand Gore."

Well, that's stupid on both ends. You see, you need to actually see what matterr before you pick a side. And, to be sure, this criticism isn't meant for anyone here.

However, do elaboraste on your decision... it'll make the discussion more lively. :)

Quote from: Fisk on May 19, 2007, 06:45:29 PM
Ah... illegal immigrants. I'm totally okay with them, I live in South Texas, after all. I mean, as long as they speak English and are genuinely citizen-like, they should be a citizen by my book. (even if they are illegal immigrants, I think they deserve the right to vote, I mean, they need to be able to pick who's in charge of everyone. Maybe some other, more basic rights as well, but not all rights; they are illegal, after all.)

And as for abortion... Ugh, I'm so pissed at that topic. XD (sorry if that word offends anyone; I'm not too fond of the word myself, I just had to convey my feelings) I mean, sometimes a woman doesn't have a choice as to whether or not they get pregnant or not. What if, say, a teenager got raped, and pregnant? I certainly would not want to have a baby in high school; it would look terrible on a resume, and it wouldn't even be my fault. Childbirth is a very painful thing from what I've heard, as well, so why not let them abort?

I don't know; a lot of the people against it are guys and probably wouldn't understand as well as a woman. I mean no offense to the guys on the forums; it's just that... it's easier to side when you're the same gender as the one you're discussing. XD

God, I haven't been here for at least a year... Anyway I am a republican, for those who are not interested in government your a fool. Government determines how your country is run and overall how your life may be formed. And to think that government is something that simply runs it's course is nonsense, my country is a democracy meaning anybody can take part in the government if they are a citizen. Anyway that's my rant see you next year

Oh god Austin the mole on Texas' Republican face, anyway why do people say illegals have the right to just waltz in here? ILLEGAL, big part there, they, are, criminals. They come here illegally breaking our laws, and retards like you tell law enforcment what bad people they are for enforcing our laws.  

My view of abortion, if it will endanger the life of the mother not to abort then yes it is neccessary, but you always have the choice to put the child up for adoption if you cannot support it (or heaven forbid) not want it (after you so carefullymade sure you did not have it)

And I'm not opressing women by saying they should not be able to vacuum out they're child and make it end up looking like it was in a food processer, I'm just siding with the inoccent one here.

Well, um, kind of wishing I didn't see this.  After all, I'm not one to discuss politics.  And that's not why I'm here, so sorry for not being on topic.  But Harashi, you seem to have forgotten that we have a no double posting rule here.  And no matter what your political views are, calling Fisk a retard was uncalled for.

Yes...just because you don't agree with her views doesn't give you a reason to call her a retard. Also, you've only been gone for a few months, because I know you were here to post a Wii code.

I hate when political debate gets down to name calling.  Harashi, that's a warning.  

To address the first part of your post Harashi, it bugs me too when people who don't vote and then complain about how bad our government is.

On your second post however, I don't support or reject abortion.  Why?  Not my call to make.  What point would there be in me, a man, making a decision for a process we'll never go through.  So I just back out of the whole abortion debate.

Quote from: Harashi on May 28, 2007, 08:01:53 PMI'm just siding with the inoccent one here.

Oh brother.  ???

Honestly, I really dislike American politics. Only two parties? What's up with that? Not saying that Norwegian politics are any better. It's all just empty promises. Politicians care more for themselves than for the people.

This is the reason I don't like democracy, or any other system that allows anyone to ascend to the position of ruler of their country. A land should, in my opinion, be ruled by someone who is taught from early childhood how to rule a country.

Yep, I'm a monarchist.^_^

QuoteThis is the reason I don't like democracy, or any other system that allows anyone to ascend to the position of ruler of their country. A land should, in my opinion, be ruled by someone who is taught from early childhood how to rule a country.

You're not serious, are you?

Quote from: collaboration on May 29, 2007, 03:46:27 AM

Quote from: Harashi on May 28, 2007, 08:01:53 PMI'm just siding with the inoccent one here.

Oh brother.  ???

Well said.  :)

Hey, like I said, rape? Yeah, that kind of makes the woman the innocent one. So... uh, yeah.

I'm not big on politics, we're all sort of screwed with or without all of this nonsense on whether we should not definitely possibly not eat babies or stuff like that.

By the way, I don't mind having been called a retard. XD

Quote from: Rincewind on May 29, 2007, 10:24:10 AM

QuoteThis is the reason I don't like democracy, or any other system that allows anyone to ascend to the position of ruler of their country. A land should, in my opinion, be ruled by someone who is taught from early childhood how to rule a country.

You're not serious, are you?

Stop ridiculing everyone just because they have different views. Why does it matter if he believes this? I think there are a few problems with the way our government works too, should I be considered stupid for that?

Instead of disagreeing with everyone elses views, why not explain your own Rincewind?

Isn't that after all, what this great nation is all about? But I suppose you don't follow the rules of this nation, Rincewind, considering you apparently dislike it very much.

What defines a patriot of this country? It is not to stand with other men as you would for such so called 'pride'. Pride is an ill thing; no, a patriot here is one who is willing to uphold the people's rights. Our country was founded as one for, by, and of the people, and as one would say for our own desires, it is a willingness to stand up as our fore-fathers stood up against tyranny and oppression.

A patriot in name believes only in pride; a patriot in spirit is willing to continue the meaning and spirit over which our country was founded.

Quote from: Evilslayer on May 29, 2007, 06:58:10 AM
Honestly, I really dislike American politics. Only two parties? What's up with that? Not saying that Norwegian politics are any better. It's all just empty promises. Politicians care more for themselves than for the people.

This is the reason I don't like democracy, or any other system that allows anyone to ascend to the position of ruler of their country. A land should, in my opinion, be ruled by someone who is taught from early childhood how to rule a country.

Yep, I'm a monarchist.^_^

I say we steal a rocket and form a colony on MARS!
The only thing wrong with monarchy is that some greedy guy will eventually come along. I saw communism. >_> Oh and those who say communism is evil, don't really know what it is.

Yes. No matter which system you use, there is always going to be a downside, as described so far. I think Democracy does have the fewest downsides though, since nobody can get all the power, since he have three branches controlled by three seperate groups.

I want a more specific constitution. Because the President should not be so powerful, Conress should be the most powerful.

Actually, the President can't do anything without Congress' consent.

Legally anyway. >_> Though lots, especially the current one, do stuff anyway. And the whole, "He is the President" thing always works. If I fixed anything in the constitution it would be giving strict rules about what the President and what he can and cannot do, without Congress' consent. I know the arguement about making fast descicions in war, but I don't think there should be war at all.

Sadly, as long as there is more than one man on Earth, there will be war.

He seriously can't do anything without the Congress voting on it first, at risk of impeachment.

To Impeach does not mean 'kick out'; it  means to charge with a crime. An impeachment process is meant to examine if the person in power committed a crime, and if they find that he did, and the congress votes to throw him out, then he will be thrown out.

Where I live there was a box on the ballot for "Impeach Bush?" But my parents didn't check it, because then Chanee would be President. *shivers* But Congress won't impeach Bush for fear of political status. *sigh*

Well yes, for the fear that he'll be charged. There's no guarantee as to his removal, that hasn't happened for a long time, but if he did something like that you know he would be under fire.

ALso, that double posted, better delete that. I wonder why that happens...

Argh... Sometimes the site takes too long to load, so I assume that my post is lost, so I repost it, sometimes without realizing that it was already posted.

Impeachment... out of curiousity, how many impeachments have their been in this country, 2? Or am I wrong?

Technically, there have been 3. In truth, there have been two. Richard Nixon resigned before the impeachment trials, so that 'technically' counts.

Andrew Johnson, didn't lose presidency

Richard Nixon, resigned before the trials began.

Bill Clinton, didn't lose presidency.

To impeach is only to go on trial, so technically all three were impeached. Only one would have been removed from office, but resigned.

Wasn't President Andrew Johnson impeached as well?

D'oh! It's easy to get Jackson and Johnson mixed up. That they have the same first names doesn't help at all. Jackson was the seventh president, of the 1820's. Johnson was VP to Lincoln, President from 1865-1869.

Yeah, Jackson wasn't impeached, but he died of sickness a month into office.

Umm... Dude, Jackson was president for 8 years. I think you're thinking of William H. Harrison.

Ah, yep...silly me...heh, seems like we're mixing up all the old presidents...

He was the one who died only a month into office, right?

.....

Isn't that what Shikamaru just said?

Darn it!  I guess I deserve that, I haven't been exactly on the ball today.

I hope Cheney doesn't die. Yes, that was random, but I was just thinking of what would happen if he passed.

Nothing would really happen. At least, after the 2008 elections anyway. If he were to die sometime in the near future, it wouldn't be that devastating... He's getting on in years.

Well, not only is Cheney getting old, but he also has a notoriously bad heart.

Yeah, but nothing would really happen if he died. Except that he wouldn't take the job of President if Bush died, but I think in that case the Secretary of State steps up and takes the Presidency...

Line of descendance from Presidentual vacancy.

1. Vice President
2. Speaker of the House
3. President Pro Tempore of the Senate
4. Secretary of State.

In the case of a vacancy of the Vice President, as it happened during the Nixon administration after Spiro Agnew resigned, the President appoints a new Vice President and Congress votes on whether to approve the appointment.

Just a fun fact about Speakers of the House, in Britain they aren't allowed to speak...

Oh the irony.

In light of recent happenings with my further exploits of politics, I may have discovered that I am quite a libertarian.

I really dont care...
And I ont really know.

Why don't you care?  Why don't you know?  Reasons man!  Reasons!

How!?I dont konw why!

Well, you must have a reason why you don't care about the government.

Oh yes!Because it bores me!When My teacher reads with the class,i put my head down,to pretend im reading!
Preeching and Speeches bore me!

While it may be boring, a basic knowledge of how government works is important.

But, is the Japanese way different from the american?

I probably should have taken into consideration that you're from Japan.

I would assume that the Japanese way is quite different. But you should at least take a mild interest, if anything. Who knows, maybe one day you'll be a politician?

I guess youre right. ;)

HA! No country's politicians are immune to corruption. And I do mean NONE.

And, JQ, sad to say you are indeed correct.