And show him how great the effect of his sites were on the Zelda community. As you may or may not know, TML is closing down The Grand Adventures AND Zeldablog. According to him, he's lost his fanboyism for Nintendo...
I cannot believe the selfishness of that action; simply because he believes only HE would do with the sites, and because he has neither time or motivation for either, he's closing them down.
Read the article over at zeldablog.com for more details.
WE MUST HUNT HIM DOWN!
But how would we hunt him down?
We know EXACTLY where he lives, in Washington. I can even provide his address if you all wanna spam his mailbox.
He made a GREAT contribution to the Zelda community, but he's just going to let TGA and Zeldablog die.
I cannot believe him... Does he even comprehend how many people started their zelda lives at TGA and ZB? It would be too disastrous an effect on the Zelda Community!
Are you...a stalker? How the heck did you find out? And he's gonna do what he's gonna do, I doubt he'll listen.
JQ is probably just over-reacting. The Missing Link had very good reasons to quit, which you can find here. (http://www.zeldablog.com/) It can't have been easy for him, and spamming up his mailbox demanding his return isn't going to help him.
I live in Washington.... ;).....anyways, we shouldn't freak out at him, we can't force him to do something. Maybe he could pass on the torch...
But he's not going to do that, which makes me even madder. He said so himself, he's going to let his sites die, closing them down and not renewing them, letting them go until the domain names expire.
If only he would pass the torch to someone else, but he believes that NO ONE can do it.
What an arrogant fool...
It is very possible that nobody can do it as well as he did, but I'm sure somebody could keep it alive at least.
Allow me the pleasure of repeating myself, JQ.
TML has to worry about his own phsyical and mental well-being. That is part of the reason why he's closing down the sites. Respect his reasons and his decisions. If you really want to keep TGA and ZeldaBlog up (though not necessarily updated), then volunteer to take up the reigns yourself and pay for the sites if you think you can afford it. But please don't spam his mailbox demanding that he finds someone to continue paying for the domain names. All that does is make you look like an ***, and I doubt TML needs that in his life right now.
I'm not saying we should annoy him, we can't force him into doing something. While I probably can't pay for it (I have no job and no allowance, but my parents might support me depending on how much it costs) I could help with content and management...
That was aimed at JQ.
I feel I should add, about his decision being selfish...
He isn't obligated to put up that site. It cost him money, and he got nothing out of it. He did it voluntarily for the good of other people. We should be grateful he kept those sites running for all those years, and just accept that he can't keep it up anymore. In this situation, I feel we are being more selfish than he, and we should focus more on finding a way to keep the site alive without him than anger ourselves over his departure. Contemptous feelings won't help anything.
Zeldablog died too soon. Only 19 months! As opposed to TGA, which lasted 4 years or more!
So then let's try and find a solution instead of murdering TML.
Sometimes it happens. It's unfortunate, but there are other Zelda sites out there we can go to. Griping about it isn't going to help, so just move on with life.
QuoteIt's unfortunate, but there are other Zelda sites out there we can go to.
I'd like to point out that no other site really does it like ZB.
That's why we should try and find people who can do a suitable job of taking care of it.
Quote from: Bboy on May 21, 2007, 07:39:13 PM
I'd like to point out that no other site really does it like ZB.
True, but that's not the point. My point is to move on with life.
And if you want to try to find someone who's willing to take care of TGA and ZB, then go ahead. But I'm asking JQ not to hassle TML about it, as is Shikamaru.
I'm going to reply to this in as calm and mild-mannered a mood as I can muster to this topic. I unfortunately am not going to be brief because this is a topic I want to make sure that some people hear my full opinion about this.
Let's broach the main topic first: Am I being selfish? Technically, in a manner of speaking, yes. I am doing this for my own reasons; I am removing myself as an extremely active member of the community in order to relax a little bit and work on more personal things. Because of those points, I'm certain that there is some decent argument that I am not selfless by doing so. Thus, selfish. Right.
However, off and on for the past six years, I have been running websites and/or forums. At some point, I was running two websites quite actively. At the beginning, I will admit that I did so because I thought that Internet fame would be all that and a bag of potato chips; however, as the months strolled on, I found that my true joy for being in the community was contributing to others. I began replying to EVERY E-mail I received from a fan, no matter how broken their English was. I would wait for reactions from people, hoping that whatever I did would be pleasing to them, and I would thank those people who did compliment my deeds for taking their time out to read what I had written. I allowed people a safe haven to share their Zelda pride at both TGA and ZeldaBlog. I devoted countless hours to both causes. And I kid you not when I say this statistic, but I have probably written enough in my articles, stories, and and fan-novel to fill a 600- to 700-page paperback novel. (There are few in the community who have probably reached this level of devotion.)
I mention these not because I take any pride in them directly, not because I wanted to go down in history as the best Zelda webmaster there ever was, but because I wanted people to have fun with Zelda, for people to find joy within the series that everyone in the community liked and appreciated, because it brought smiles to the faces of people who read my works.
Maybe I'm going to be biased in my self-assessment, but I'd like to think that much of those six years compromised an act of selflessness rather than selfishness. In some regards, if you'll allow the expression, I have been the community's "slave" for six years. Granted, it has to date been as a willing slave because, honestly, I enjoyed it, but the analogy still is poignant. I have willingly done what other people in the community have wanted and expected for quite some time.
Instead of closing ZeldaBlog and TGA, what would you have me do? Would you have me stay in the community forever despite my wishes? Would you have me generate articles every week for your reading even though it sapped my personal time and energy? Would you like me to devote every waking moment to making sure that you somehow are entertained because I have managed to do so in the past? If you answer yes to any of these, I think you need to re-analyse who the selfish one is here.
Finally, what of passing the torch onto someone else? TGA and ZeldaBlog is nothing special, and before you get the wrong idea about this, let me clarify it. Technically speaking, TGA and ZeldaBlog are nothing more than frameworks. At its technical core, ZeldaBlog is nothing but a blog sitting upon a Wordpress engine, PHP, HTML, and a MySQL database with a old-school layout that evokes a sense of nostalgia and memories. TGA still runs on HTML frames (a horror in today's world) on 1998 web technology with a penchant for JavaScript and a nice medieval theme that identifies with the setting of the Zelda series. Those frameworks are not why people came to those sites. Anyone can create that; I mean, look at the nice eye candy of many of the Zelda sites within the community today. Their graphics skills are far better than mine, and some of them have built their content engines from the ground up, representing a greater technical challenge. That's not why people came.
Literally, anyone can create what I created.
The only thing that cannot be recreated exactly is my personal touch upon it. Is that a make or break for a website? If it is, well, the community was going to be doomed one day regardless of my voluntary closing of TGA and ZB because, one day, I am going to die, and the community would thus die on that day. But I don't believe I'm a make or break for the community, that the community cannot function without me. There's bound to be someone out there that is more talented than me, that is better than me, and that is more dedicated to the series than I am. And I don't believe that the framework of either ZeldaBlog or TGA is make or break for the community either. There are sites with better fanfiction, better fanart, better timeline discussion, better humour, better media, better news, and better everything else. All of the elements of what I created are already out there somewhere. Some ambitious person could theoretically start a TGA 2 or a ZeldaBlog 2 and start up where I left off.
And you know what, to see that happen would be completely awesome in my book; I'd challenge anyone to do it because I'd love to see it--not because of me but because I'd love to see how they would upend the tea table of the Zelda community.
How is that any different from passing the torch?
If you aren't willing to create your own site from scratch, to invest hundreds or thousands of hours into making a Zelda website, to advertising, to generating content, to researching, to everything, how then can you say--in good conscience!--that it isn't fair that I'm not passing the torch on? Because if you are, it's not exactly selfless of you to say that.
Simply put, if you're targeting me in this whole affair because of what I'm doing, you don't get the community; if you're targeting me, you don't know what running a website should be about. The community will not be a better place if you spam my E-mailbox or if you send nasty letters to my address. It certainly won't fill the void you perceive to be my departure of the community either. In short, it's a meaningless action. However, you're welcome to do as you like, and I cannot stop you more than I can leap over tall buildings or run faster than a speeding bullet.
I can ask, though, that you seriously ponder this post.
And I can ask the moderators to lock at this topic at any time because I know the staff here, and the staff knows me. Please don't give me a reason to be the "bad guy" here and do so.
thats alot...
Gasp! No way! :o
I'm wondering if you even took the time to read it all like I did. ::)
Anywho, I hope TML's response is good enough reason for you to leave him alone, JQ. He pretty much said what I was somewhat trying to say, but couldn't quite get it across your thick head because I'm obviously not The Missing Link himself.
Quote from: Sarge on May 22, 2007, 08:01:28 AM
thats alot...
I am considering that spam, as it has nothing to do with this thread other than the previous post being long. Sarge, that is a warning.
It may be alot, but I read it all. It'll be sad to see you go TML, but I won't be out there hunting you. I understand things must be done and you're obliged to do them.
I read the whole thing this morning before school, didn't have time to post though...I agree with him wholeheartedly....So I suppose if anybody were willing to fund the site we could get a team together and make a ZB2....
Yes, TML, the circumstances certainly are understandable. There's only so much you can do at once without going insane, and I have heard that video game design requires quite a few hours of devotion (you said that you were into the video game design business in your ZB post, no?), and if you need to lighten the load on your time, then I'll certainly support you in doing so.
While I haven't been a member of ZB, I have indeed read your post at ZB, and it couldn't have been helped of me to be saddened by the news. However, the choice is yours, and I can speak for most everyone when I say that we can't hinder you from making it. I sure as heck won't hunt you down.
I also can't necessarily tell if you're reading this, but I felt I had to say it. Have a good life, TML! Live long and prosper! :)
AHH!!!
I'm ashamed for making this topic now...
I guess I couldn't, heheh, just as many others won't be able to get over it.
So much, so much... I hope that the new generation will develop and grow. I'm sorry at having done this now...
I guess we and I can't really get over the closing of either. I could make an analogy of ending something too soon. but what good will it do? Hah...
I still can't believe he.... actually...
I've caused you enough trouble TML, so from now... I'm going to try and find the next TML to found the next Zeldablog. Hahah...
I guess the argument isn't about selfishness vs. selflessness, but I... You realize that the spirit, the life force is made by what we have done, rather than if one man does all of this for eternity.
I swear to honor the name of Zeldablog. And I will see to it that one day, there will be another place where people will be able to gather; the hub of the whole community. And then we shall see if the life of the community will become stronger.
I guess I'm more saddened that people are moving on... and there doesn't seem to be anyone to pass the light unto the next generation... I sincerely hope that I'm wrong about this...
JQ....I don't think you should be ashamed. You didn't make this out of hostility, if anything, you made it because you respected him so greatly it tore you to see him do this. I think he will be fine. As for making the next Zeldablog...how much would that cost?
Fifty million NZD and your soul.
Who said that? ::)
Anywho, I'm glad you decided to lay off TML, JQ. Good luck finding the next TML, though. You're going to need a lot of it. As was said before, no one can replace what he has done, so trying to create your own legacy would be a better idea, to loosely quote TML. At least I think I'm quoting TML. Maybe I'm quoting Alpha. One of those two. Maybe both.
I think I'll shut up now. ;)
There is no way I could have stopped halfway through. This is major, and anyone who plays at Hyrule Adventures 2 finds this as a standard post. I cannot agree more with what has been said. I see his side of the issue, and I stand by it. I can't stand to see him "targeted" because he's hanging up his sword for a while. He's contributed enough to the community, and I find it only natural that he deserves a break, or even retirement. In retrospect, it wasn't right to call him Selfish at all. If anything he's been gracious to provide us with what we have.
But perhaps these still is something you don't understand TML. We don't go to a site for its fancy artwork, or displays. We don't run to the place with the most beautiful design. Take TDC for example. We don't have the beautiful pages that Exploding Deku Nut has. We have a simple layout, yet we still have members that prefer the colossus over any other site. Do you know why that is TML? We come here for the great management, the members, the activities, the familiar way we enter and post. People feel comfortable and familiar with ZeldaBlog, and they have a great leader. They go because they know the latest news is brought to them in a comical, yet informative manner. Its in that understanding that people flock to your sites. The GossipStones are always bursting with replies, and I would hate to see all those people be turned away.
While I do agree that you could use a break, and even retirement, I also thing that you should come at least once a month to get a brief overlook of everything, and make sure things are running smoothly. Ideally, I expect that the phrase "passing the torch" means you are putting the site under new management. I would take the time to find somebody with good grammar, and a common understanding of how to remain active and run a site. Don't take anything I said the wrong way. You're a greatly appreciated member of the Zelda Community, and respect and stand behind the decisions you make. Its your life, and your choice, and there is nothing we can do to change that. I actually don't expect you to come back to TDC to read all of this, but I knew this had to be said. Also, please don't ever post anything like that again Sarge, we all know that you most likely didn't read any of it, or even what I'm typing. So I'll cut this off before I speak another unseen message.
EDIT: Adding to this, I agree that we can never find another TML. I also agree that I worry about the new generation. As the generations go on, kids are getting lazier, and incompetent. I can't see anyone of the new generation doing what TML and Jack have done. Heck, I couldn't even say I myself would be up for such a task. I can only thank these guys as best I can and hope, hope, hope for more light to shine on the community. At this point, a new game won't solve problems...
I didn't know you had an account here TML. :o
Well, see 'ya round TML, I'll miss your articles. :P Your games are gonna have awesome stories if that company is using you to your potential.
Bboy, I actually didn't have an account here until I found this post a few hours after it was first posted. ZeldaBlog--to some degree--keeps tracks of links in, and in curiosity as to find how far the news of this had spread, I followed this one to see how people were taking the news. When I happened upon this topic, well, this became one of the rare few that I have felt the need to follow up at length to make sure that my post at ZeldaBlog was not misconstrued. Thus, my post.
JQ, all is well at this point. I think we're on the same page now.
Zelda Veteran, as far as what you are saying, I want to thank you for the kind words about this. And I will admit to some degree that you probably are spot on about ZeldaBlog. However, there's a wise saying that I try my best to follow: "Criticism and compliments are like gum: Chew, but do not swallow." While I'm sure that my wit and humour have had some bit to play in making ZeldaBlog what ZeldaBlog was, by no means can I (nor do I want to) take 100% of the credit for its success. I had a significant help from fellow webmasters who were a sounding board for the idea under construction and throughout its life span as well as helping me update while I was on vacation and to add some spice to the weekly diet of the site. Readers gave suggestions and ideas on how to make the site better, telling me when I wrote an article that completely missed the mark. ZeldaBlog--as is the case with any site--is not the sole product of its inspiration nor creation; it is a product of everyone from origin to destination.
However, like you said, while I did contribute perhaps the lion's share of the effort into the place and thus should logically reap the greatest share of the praise for it, that's not how I want people to frame me and my so-called "legacy". I want people to disassociate me from ZeldaBlog and treat the two separately. In other words, I would rather people not see me as a webmaster or administrator of ZeldaBlog but rather as a very stalwart fan of the Legend of Zelda who was a generally nice and personable guy. If nothing else, I would want people to remember me for my personality over my articles, my demeanour over my website. I want people to think that I made a difference not because of what I did but how I did it. That is, inevitably, how a site wins the long race.
Consequently, by that logic, the question of putting the website under new management would inevitably be a moot question. If ZeldaBlog depended upon my charisma to be what it was, then anyone I would hire to take it over would have their own interpretation of what that site represented and thus handle it differently. While I'm certain that it is more than possible that I could find someone who was as good or--more likely--better than me to run the place, I don't think it's in my power nor capability to find that person and tap him on the shoulder. I came into the community and into being a webmaster six years ago on my own volition; I discovered what my role in the community should be by trial and error, always adapting and shaping what I thought my purpose should be after every success and every failure. In short, what brought me to what I am was nothing short of a personal journey, something that can only be learned and never taught. I would think, then, that the community will find (for lack of better phraseology) a "new TML" not by searching him or her out nor by designating someone as heir or heiress to follow in TML's footsteps but by waiting for that person to find out for him or herself that that person is up to the challenge and willing to take the community on.
Be that as it may, I want to stress I am not leaving the community forever, no goodbye, no end of story. Rather, merely I'm just going to be taking a back seat in it, watching from afar and poking my head out into the open every once in a while when it suits me. It might be for you to think of me as a well-known and well-loved Congressman (should they even exist!) who finally retires from public office. I'll still be on tour here and there, giving motivational speeches and standing on the stump to promote issues that I feel important. However, instead of sitting behind a desk writing legislation every day (if only Congress members actually DID that!), I'm going to take my spare time and go fishing more, to go golfing, and catch a few more Zs. I am certainly not the sort that would just retreat to a nursing home and live there the rest of my days in seclusion. You'll be able to spot me from time to time if you keep your eyes open, and I do hope that that will put your mind at ease about the issue.
Hunt an old member down, how do we find him?
Quote from: Kairi on May 23, 2007, 01:20:41 PM
Hunt an old member down, how do we find him?
::)
I wish I had said something sooner. It'd be hard to prove now, but before you had said that hunting down an old member was pointless.
And did you not read anything? We're not hunting down anyone. JQ was upset about the closing of The Grand Adventures and ZeldaBlog, and he wanted to hunt down The Missing Link to foolishly (if I may say so; no offense is meant) try to convince him to not close down TGA and ZB. TML joined TDC so that he could pacify JQ, and posted again to reply to ZV and Bboy. I'd say the matter is done with, so there's no real point to post here again, especially if you read the whole thing.
Oh, but wait. Some people don't read previous posts. :-*
EDIT: I threw in the quote just in case she thought it'd be cute to modify her post again.
Again? When did she do it the first time? (I'm only asking this here because of Hi no Seijin's inbox troubles).
She only modified her post once as far as I know. I don't know about anywhere else.
And honestly, it wasn't so much that she modified her message that bothered me. It was the fact that she had said it was pointless to hunt down an old member and then modified her message to say how we hunt down an old member. Perhaps had it been the other way around, I wouldn't have said anything.
There's also the fact that she obviously didn't read any of the previous posts. I may seem hypocritical; sometimes I don't completely read past posts either. But I don't make a habit out of it like some other people.
Ummm... Believe it or not, she's the same age as Violinist. Though her maturity is nowhere near as high...
Don't believe me? Just ask Violinist.
This is all I will post ion this topic...
TML had two very great websites running. Am I used to love to visit them. But, if he wants to chill and move on to another project, well, that's cool. I am proud to say that I was introduced into the Zelda community by first visitng the Grand Adventures back in 2001 for the first time. Tahnks you, TML, for all your hard work and dedication. Yur work will always be close to my heart, as it introduced me into the Zelda Internet world. Thank you. *salutes* You are a great member the Zelda community was produ to have.
And with that... MsterKey, out.
Yes, tahnk you indeed.
I know this is a little late, but wow TML, that was one of the most emotional posts I've ever seen. :(
Zelda Veteran and MagmarFire have made a couple that brought me close to tears.
The reason why I said it was one of the most, not the most.