The Desert Colossus

Community => Chatboard => Topic started by: darkphantomime on June 08, 2007, 07:34:45 PM

Title: Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: darkphantomime on June 08, 2007, 07:34:45 PM
Now we make war against all the Naruto crap! Now we stand up and show how much greater quality there was in the elder days!

Who's with me?!

Neon
Genesis
Evangelion!!!!!!!
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Rev Rabies on June 08, 2007, 07:38:19 PM
im not with you for once man
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: TP Zelda on June 08, 2007, 07:40:01 PM
Lol. Yay Orochimaru-sama!! :D

Did I just agree with Orochimaru?  :-[
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Rev Rabies on June 08, 2007, 07:40:49 PM
indeed you did
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: TP Zelda on June 08, 2007, 07:46:35 PM
Dude... i can just imagine you saying that in your awesome voice.  :-[ EH?! Did I just say your voice was awesome?
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Rev Rabies on June 08, 2007, 07:47:03 PM
indeed you did
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: TP Zelda on June 08, 2007, 07:49:17 PM
Ehh!! I'm so glad there's a forum where you can spam...
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: darkphantomime on June 08, 2007, 07:51:32 PM
I'm so glad I haven't shot myself yet.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Commodore Axilon on June 08, 2007, 07:54:20 PM
Not having ever watched Neon Genesis Evangelion I can't really say anything about it, obviously. But I agree with your general sentiment.

I say, good show, sir.

Edit: Apparently obscure animu rules j00!
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 09, 2007, 08:32:58 AM
Quit bashing out on Naruto. Its a good anime, but it does have a large majority of anime fans in America BECAUSE Everything made by 4KIDS sucks, Bleach is on Adult Swim, MAR and Prince of Tennis are new to the American anime, Kenshin isn't even shown anymore, and Yugioh is for little kids. Older animes aren't shown anymore either. Neither is the Dragon Ball series, including Dragon Ball Z and others.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Fishalicious on June 09, 2007, 08:34:55 AM
I never watched Neon Genesis Evangelion. But... I'll attack with Loveless.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: darkphantomime on June 09, 2007, 08:36:48 AM
HAH! Does it matter what's shown today? You have to find them yourself in order to experience the true classics of anime, like NGE and Escaflowne.

Passions for NGE ran extremely high, especially at the end of the anime. The creator recieved a LOT of death threats because of how he made the ending out to be... shows how much people cared about it so as to threaten murder.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 09, 2007, 08:39:20 AM
Actually, by removing any competition one has a greater chance. With all the other good ones not being shown or being shown late, are new, or are 4KIDS, then Naruto had a much greater chance.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 09, 2007, 09:09:59 AM
Fine, half of my signature and stuff is Bleach, the other Naruto. I'm sorry my picture of Kisuke sucks, but it was really tiny. And I couldn't find one very good.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Rev Rabies on June 09, 2007, 09:14:34 AM
Quote from: Whocares on June 09, 2007, 08:32:58 AM
Quit bashing out on Naruto. Its a good anime, but it does have a large majority of anime fans in America BECAUSE Everything made by 4KIDS sucks, Bleach is on Adult Swim, MAR and Prince of Tennis are new to the American anime, Kenshin isn't even shown anymore, and Yugioh is for little kids. Older animes aren't shown anymore either. Neither is the Dragon Ball series, including Dragon Ball Z and others.

hry man i still watch yu gi oh in the morning
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 09, 2007, 09:16:58 AM
Ummm, naything made by 4KIDS is made for people in the 6-10 years old area. Even if you do enjoy watching it, they still make it for younger viewers.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Rev Rabies on June 09, 2007, 10:59:10 AM
yea GX is on in the morning, i still find it entertaining even though its demon spawn
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: DW on June 09, 2007, 11:06:46 AM
It has one of the most annoying catchphrases though, and WAY too many special abilities for the monsters.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 09, 2007, 11:08:48 AM
I wish more poeple were a fan of Bleach. It surpasses Naruto by far.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: TP Zelda on June 09, 2007, 12:03:27 PM
Quote from: Orochimaru on June 09, 2007, 09:14:34 AM
Quote from: Whocares on June 09, 2007, 08:32:58 AM
Quit bashing out on Naruto. Its a good anime, but it does have a large majority of anime fans in America BECAUSE Everything made by 4KIDS sucks, Bleach is on Adult Swim, MAR and Prince of Tennis are new to the American anime, Kenshin isn't even shown anymore, and Yugioh is for little kids. Older animes aren't shown anymore either. Neither is the Dragon Ball series, including Dragon Ball Z and others.

hry man i still watch yu gi oh in the morning

Lol.  :D

QuoteI wish more poeple were a fan of Bleach. It surpasses Naruto by far.

I keep thinking this guy: (http://uqac.ca/anime/images/series/bleach.png) is Kyo: (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/45/FB_kyo.jpg)

I think this should be locked. It may lead to an argument.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: DW on June 09, 2007, 12:04:23 PM
No, nobody's going to start flaming over Anime. This doesn't need to be locked, it's a play fight.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 09, 2007, 12:07:05 PM
Quoteit's a play fight.

Quoting from Robot Chicken George W. Bush:

Does that mean I have the force?!
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Bboy94 on June 09, 2007, 12:07:41 PM
I only say Naruto is best, because I can watch it without subtitles.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: DW on June 09, 2007, 12:07:46 PM
I'm George W. Bush, and I approve this message:

TACOS RULE!
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Bboy94 on June 09, 2007, 12:08:05 PM
>.>


<.<
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: TP Zelda on June 09, 2007, 12:10:48 PM
QuoteI only say Naruto is best, because I can watch it without subtitles.

Wha~! That's amazing!!  :D
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 09, 2007, 12:13:06 PM
Bleach is on just a few hours after Naruto, at 11:30, Sasuke. It's already too deep in the series for you to know what's going on, but you should still watch it anyway.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Bboy94 on June 09, 2007, 12:29:21 PM
My parents don't let me watch tv or do anything besides reading after 11.  :-* They say other things aren't restfull enough.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 09, 2007, 12:30:30 PM
Too bad, it's really good.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: TP Zelda on June 09, 2007, 12:32:32 PM
Record it!!  :D Then you can watch it.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Fishalicious on June 09, 2007, 12:38:15 PM
More people need to watch Loveless, to me. I'm not a big fan of either Naruto or Bleach. I'll watch it if it's on, but... Eh, otherwise, I'll just sort of watch cooking channels.

I don't want a full out anime war to start. That would be silly.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Rev Rabies on June 09, 2007, 01:02:00 PM
Quote from: Shikamaru Nara on June 09, 2007, 11:06:46 AM
It has one of the most annoying catchphrases though, and WAY too many special abilities for the monsters.

actually all the abilities are accurate to the actual cards
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: TP Zelda on June 09, 2007, 01:02:54 PM
Eh? I got a Gaara card... I still have to read it. XDDD Ooh pretty sparkles...  :P
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: darkphantomime on June 09, 2007, 07:16:48 PM
Quote from: Whocares on June 09, 2007, 08:39:20 AM
Actually, by removing any competition one has a greater chance. With all the other good ones not being shown or being shown late, are new, or are 4KIDS, then Naruto had a much greater chance.

Naruto is crap. Why, in the old days, we didn't have to watch anime that was hundreds of episodes in length. We were just fine with 26 episodes and we would be familiar and know all the characters well enough for them to remain truly memorable!

The characters in NGE are quite messed up... But I think that helps you realize and relate with them better, because they're actually suffering, becoming shattered, disillusioned... suicidal.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Commodore Axilon on June 09, 2007, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: Gendo Ikari on June 09, 2007, 07:16:48 PM
Naruto is crap. Why, in the old days, we didn't have to watch anime that was hundreds of episodes in length. We were just fine with 26 episodes and we would be familiar and know all the characters well enough for them to remain truly memorable!

(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Commodore_Axilon/Forum%20Shit/oldmancloud.jpg)
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Rev Rabies on June 10, 2007, 05:31:32 AM
it took me awhile to get that joke...
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 10, 2007, 10:12:43 AM
It took me about 2 seconds.

Wow, JQ, that was an own. :P

And if the only reason you hate Naruto is because it is over 26 episodes, then I have no reason for even arguing with you about Naruto, because you're simply hating it for being long and having an in depth plot.

And wait, aren't you a fan of Bleach, which is also over 26 episodes?
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: darkphantomime on June 10, 2007, 10:38:41 AM
Read: I DO NOT WATCH BLEACH!

I read the manga, and that's that. No need to go for something that's little more than a carbon copy.

ANd besides, Naruto = drawn-out plot, not in-depth. If you want in-depth, you should try a compressed anime that has so much stuff going on in so little time, you'll have trouble figuring out what happened. Animes with a challenge are pretty good!
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 10, 2007, 10:53:38 AM
No, Naruto does have an in depth plot, you only assume it doesn't because it is longer than the animes you like. There are alot of unanswered questions in the series (Itachi and Kabuto's goals, the identity of the akatsuki Leader, the history of Yondaime, etc.), and there is a large number of protagonists (Akatsuki, Orochimaru and Kabuto, Gato Syndicate, etc.). Naruto has a small yet in depth past for most of the characters (Tenten, being useless, is an exception) and each are given very distinctive personalities. There are many things that give the characters goals, and the plot usually switches from one thing to another, which leaves a mystery as to what's happening somewhere else.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: darkphantomime on June 10, 2007, 11:00:11 AM
'Mystery' as in, goes un-developped. If something is in mystery, then it has not yet been developped so the character can be really fleshed out. He just remains in the shadows and...

You realize of course, with an anime with so many characters, there allows for little full fleshed character development for some of the more 'mysterious' characters.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 10, 2007, 11:13:54 AM
Might I redirect your attention to a character with only a few appearances named Itachi Uchiha, who remains almost entirely a mystery. His goals, personality, and the full extent to his abilities are unknown, although his history has been deeply discovered.

Another minor character, the Akatsuki Leader, has had a handful of appearances so far as a hologram and a real one where we saw the lower half of his face. Only one of those hologram appearances actually count because during the rest he was simply being there doing leader stuff, the only one that counts being when he explained the goals of Akatsuki to the newest members Hidan and Tobi.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: darkphantomime on June 10, 2007, 11:27:03 AM
Hey, why don't YOU try to watch something that's less than 100 episodes? If his motivations and why he is are unknown or a mystery, then who he is as a person goes undevelopped. What's his place in the overall plot? People like that are picked up for atmosphere, but just as easily become forgotten.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: DW on June 10, 2007, 11:33:22 AM
Hehe, trust me, Itachi is anything but forgotten.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 10, 2007, 11:40:49 AM
Itachi's one of the main protagonists of the series, but besides his history and general fighting style we know very little about him. His younger brother, Sasuke, is always trying to improve so he can kill Itachi, so much so he went to Orochimaru to gain power, even knowing that Orochimaru was just going to use Sasuke as his next body. Even the closest person to Itachi, his partner Kisame, doesn't seem to know his goals. Even currently he's being chased by just about everyone opposing him (Sasuke, Naruto, etc.).

And I have, in case you forgot, MAR. Fillers don't count, so that removes about 30 episodes.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Fishalicious on June 10, 2007, 11:47:55 AM
I'm not going to say anything about Naruto or Bleach or anything, but... Loveless is mysterious. It's a whole twelve episodes. I still have no idea what's going on. The characters are well-developed, but they're still mysterious.

So, character development can happen while being mysterious. A show can be short and good, long and good, medium and good... it's all about what your preferences are. I'm not going to say anything like "LULZ NARUTARDS SUX BCOZ THE SHOW IS LONG" or "THERE IZ NO DEVELOPMENT LULZ" because it's all opinionated.

And, for example:

We know about Seimei's death, family, fighter unit, how he's obsessive compulsive, etc., but we don't actually know much about him.

It's a way of building suspense and developing other characters.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 10, 2007, 11:53:39 AM
I do admit Loveless is mysterious, but the series ended in a way that leaves too many questions and possibly suggests a sequal once the manga is far enough away.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Fishalicious on June 10, 2007, 11:56:19 AM
The anime makes more sense once you've read the manga. There's a lot of internal conflict in a lot of characters, they couldn't fit it into the series very well, and so they omitted it, causing it to be confusing.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: darkphantomime on June 10, 2007, 12:07:34 PM
Heh, I wouldn't count them mysterious for your part on Loveless, just difficult to really piece together. But that's why I prefer Short stuff over long stuff, it provides more experimentation with how the show develops.

Boogiepop Phantom is 12 episodes, and the whole thing is filled with mystery, suspense, and weirdness, violence... But the thing is, the mystery is part of the atmosphere as a whole, while in many others, what is 'mysterious' is used primarily as a plot device, rather than as an aesthetic device.

Another example: Serial Experiments Lain.

What's important in an anime, to me, is atmosphere. Mainly because it creates  a unique feeling, especially with the weirder and darker atmospheres... So sometimes you don't know what's going on, but the subtle effects, with overcast lighting and unique points of view are quite beautiful.

Boogiepop Phantom, up until the last episode was shown with a Vignette effect, with grey and browner tones, as opposed to lighter and more colorful hues. The effect it created was that the whole thing had a unique presentation, giving morbid and psychological development to the characters. The main thing it revolved around was flashbacks, and as a result, many of the events are told out of sequence, sometimes without us even realizing it. Also, many of the episodes just focus on the viewpoint of one character, each episode revolving around a different character. So it creates a very memorable and beautiful effect.

The thing about anime/mangas today is that very few of them are truly 'unique'. They all revolve around the basic Shonen plot of a young boy as a main character going on an adventure with many others tagging along, usually with a subtext of missing/dead father or mother as motivation.
Experimental anime is a very fresh vacation from what has become an increasingly stale genre.
Title: Re:Cruel Angel's Thesis
Post by: Mysterious F. on June 10, 2007, 12:45:08 PM
That was so big I actually skipped some of it.