Hello, I am new to the forums. I have been developing a timeline theory off and on for about a month now, and I am in need of assistance (corrections, others' opinions, etc.). So, without further ado, here is my theory:
TMC
|
FS
|
OOT
____|____
Edit: MM goes here->| |
FSA ALTTP
| |
TP LA
| |
Oracles TLOZ
|
TAOL
|
TWW
|
PH
I realize that Miyamoto stated that ALTTP came after TLOZ and TAOL, but it is assumed that he has become confused, and besides, Aonuma is the person concerned with the timeline now. Alternatively, TLOZ and TAOL could come between TP and the Oracles. If ALTTP occured very, very long after OOT, this would make Miyamoto's statement true, even if the games involved were in parallel universes. I also know that Ganon has to be somehow resurrected by the time of TLOZ, wherever it is.
Last of all is FSA, which I have never played. I do know that in this game, it is told how Ganondorf stole a trident and became Ganon. What I do not know is if, in the entire game, he is trapped in the "Dark World," which is actually the twilight realm, which might make this placement true. Many people place FSA before ALTTP because Ganon uses the trident in ALTTP as well, but Ganonondorf had become Ganon already before that game by stealing the triforce.
Any suggestions or criticism?
The Twilight Realm is something entirely different. The Dark World is the twisted form of the Sacred Realm, which was made the very moment the Triforce was also made. The Twilight Realm was made to seal the evil sorcerers who were trying to take the Triforce. Plus, there is only ONE entrance to the Twilight Realm: The Mirror of Twilight. This is a very large, human-sized mirror, not the hand-held mirror from LTTP. There are many entrances to the Sacred Realm, such as the Temple of Time and various other portals.
LTTP and LA are after LOZ and AOL. If the game designers said so, I don't care what other people think, it's true, because htey are the real Gods of Hyrule, they make everything something.
LTTP form Japan is completely different from the American version, and from what is in the original Japanese version made directly from the game designers, OOT is not the war mentioned in LTTP.
The Triforce was never mentioned at all in FSA, so therefore we have no idea whther or not Ganon has it. It is most likely that Ganon was reincarnated from his OOT/TWW/TP self in another form, so that he could live in a way besides a wondering spirit.
TWW and PH are only 100 something years from OOT, there's no way all fo the other games could happen in 100 years and the Great Flood.
You forgot FS, but then again it doesn't at all matter.
Both FSA and FS have the Four Sword, which is in the basement of Hyrule Castle according to MC. In FSA and FS it is in a special sanctuary, and the elements from MC are still there. Therefore, this would have had to happen after some destruction of Hyrule Castle, so that means that somewhere in between FSA/FS and the game before that Hyrule Castle was attacked. And also, FSA was made to look like the LTTP map.
Quote from: Whocares on June 11, 2007, 04:07:58 PM
LTTP and LA are after LOZ and AOL. If the game designers said so, I don't care what other people think, it's true, because htey are the real Gods of Hyrule, they make everything something.
Despite the ridiculous things they've said? Despite that fact that Miyamoto himself said he doesn't really care about the timeline and only cares about making his games as enjoyable as possible?
QuoteLTTP form Japan is completely different from the American version, and from what is in the original Japanese version made directly from the game designers, OOT is not the war mentioned in LTTP.
Oh, but I thought what the game designers said was absolutely true! (http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Commodore_Axilon/Forum%20Crap/linkrolleyes.gif)
And there's also the fact that they're so similar in so many ways that the fact they'd both happen by chance is improbable, to say the least.
QuoteTWW and PH are only 100 something years from OOT, there's no way all fo the other games could happen in 100 years and the Great Flood.
This is so incredibly preposterous I don't even know where to begin. There's
no way in hell TWW took place only 100 years after OoT.
Edit: That's one of those ridiculous things they've said that doesn't really make any sort of sense whatsoever.
It doesn't matter, as long as the game designers say so, it's true.
That was a mistranslation. It's very easy for a westerner to mix
hundred and
hundreds in Japanese, because the words are identical.
QuoteLTTP form Japan is completely different from the American version, and from what is in the original Japanese version made directly from the game designers, OOT is not the war mentioned in LTTP.
The only way OoT can't be the war mentioned in ALttP is if ALttP either is in the Adult Timeline or it doesn't split and Link remains in the future.
You seem to take everything the creators say as fact, but you ignore Aonuma's comment about what happens after Link returned to his own time. What do you think that "outrageous" thing Ganon did is? Also, remember that according to the Japanese version the Wise Men sealed off the "source of evil", not Ganon himself. Therefore it fits very well with the flashback scene in TP, which according to Aonuma is a few years later.
Anyway, there are some errors in the timeline this topic is about. FSA is, for example, a
direct sequel to FS. That's pretty much stated in the intro to FSA.
I also think that TP should be in the same timeline as ALttP, as there are some obvious connections between the two. For one, there's the Master Sword and its place of rest. And what about Ganon? How did he end up in the Dark World if only his magick was sealed away? TP gives us the possible answer.
Well, it is quite clear that it splits, so therefore only the first one is possible.
The outraeous thing? If you could lend me that interview, I'd probably tell you. I seem to have forgotten where that was said.
And ofr your last paragraph, I owlud appretiate if you give one of your one-post very long explanations. I don't really understand if all you do is ask questions....
Quote from: Whocares on June 12, 2007, 07:05:08 AM
It doesn't matter, as long as the game designers say so, it's true.
See, therein lies the problem. The game designers have also said that OoT is ALttP's backstory, yet you obviously don't believe that. Seems to me, you just like to pick and choose the facts you like and conveniently "forget" the other ones.
P.S Evilslayer, if "hundred" and "hundreds" are the same word, how do you know it was, in fact, the latter and not the former? Not that I don't believe you, I just find that odd is all.
And was the Aonuma quote stating that TP took place decades after OoT also a mistranslation? Because that's just as improbable.
Thank you everyone for the input, although now I am more confused than ever. And Gaara, Four Swords is in my timeline.
Evilslayer is correct, The Wind Waker occurs
hundreds of years after the "adult" ending of OOT. This game also clearly references the Hero of Time and the events involving Ganon afterwards. But ALTTP (Japanese version) also seems to clearly reference Ganon's acquisition of the triforce and his banishment by seven sages to the sacred realm. Only one of these games can occur in the adult timeline immediately after OOT, so which one goes where? And I still have the issues with FSA.
So, right now, it looks like it could be:
TMC
|
FS
|
OOT
___|___
Edit: MM goes here ->| |
TP TWW
| |
FSA PH
|
ALTTP
|
LA
|
TLOZ
|
TAOL
|
Oracles
I realize I just completely changed this entire timeline... but my original version can't at all be true.
Quote
...somewhere in between FSA/FS and the game before that Hyrule Castle was attacked. And also, FSA was made to look like the LTTP map.
These are covered in this timeline. Ganon is called "an ancient demon reborn" in FSA, so he must be a reincarnation of his TP self. Ganondorf must have first stolen the Trident and then the Triforce in FSA and ALTTP, respectively.
Quote
FSA is, for example, a direct sequel to FS. That's pretty much stated in the intro to FSA.
There's no way I can see that allows this to happen, because we know that FS is second in the timeline from an interview with Aonuma, who is the only game designer I will trust right now. FSA can't come before OOT because Ganondorf is still a mortal in OOT, and he has no powerful trident.
Finally, I quote another person with views similar to mine, regarding TWW at least: Darken Poltergeist of Gamespot.
Quote
An often overlooked factor, yet a very important one, is geography. ALttP has VERY similar geography to both FSA and OoT. If you stretch it, you can even argue that LoZ has similarities as well. However, in order for this to be true, they would have to take place in the same Hyrule. TWW ruined all chances of this happening in the Adult timeline. At the end, Hyrule is washed away, its locations forgotten, and its legend disappeared. I refuse to believe that somehow, Link and Zelda manage to find a new land to be called Hyrule, with uncannily similar geography to the Hyrule of old, and with the same locations, to boot (Lake Hylia, Kakariko Village, etc.). Thus, any Zelda games that take place after TWW will NOT be in the same land. Thus, FSA, ALttP, and even LoZ cannot take place in this timeline. As far as the Adult Timeline goes, Hyrule is done. Its legend is no more. So, where does that place the games after OoT, then? Why, in the Child Timeline, of course, where Ganon was not sealed away, and thus no need for a deluge. Hyrule stays intact for the remainder of that timeline.
So TWW and PH are very likely the only games in the Adult Timeline.
It seems to me that all your problems stem from the fact that you think TMC comes first. Just thought I'd point that out.
Eiji Aonuma: (http://www.gameinformer.com/news/story/200405/N04.0517.1915.59084.html)
Quote
EA: The GBA Four Swords Zelda is what we're thinking as the oldest tale in the Zelda timeline. With this one on the GameCube being a sequel to that, and taking place sometime after that.
Again, Aonuma is the only game designer I will trust right now.
Of course, there is no way to be 100% sure if Aonuma is telling the truth/knows what he is talking about here, but we know that TMC comes before FS because TMC provides the backstory for FS and FSA, and TMC also depicts the creation of the Four Sword. So TMC probably comes first.
Edit:
I forgot MM in both of those timelines. It should go immediately after OOT (Child ending).
Sorry Renado, but they actually make it extremely clear in FSA that FS was directly before it, and most likely has the same Link. Link freakin' knows Zelda, like he did in FS. They already explained things about the Four Sword.
Also, Phantom Ganon had a trident.
The timeline is very confusing if you think that MC comes first. FSA and FS clearly have the same Link, and the LTTP map resembles the FSA map very closely. LTTP is after OOT clearly, although....
Now I'm confused! :( I can't think right now.
What makes LttP after OoT so obvious?
Maybe because ALttP's backstory and OoT's main story are extremely similar?
But yeah, there really isn't any definitive "proof" that they're the same event.
Besides the fact Nintendo puts it after OOT and their extreme similatiry. But that too isn't definite proof.
Extreme similarity? :o You're not refering to that outdated idea that OoT is LttPs backstory are you? The one that I personaly destroyed? ;D Nintendo made that claim many years ago, and unless they say it again, it has no merit. I don't know how it could go after OoT now, with TP and TWW. Unless there is another Ganon, of coarse, which might help it.
Oh, please. Don't flatter yourself. Any idiot can see that OoT was based off the ALttP backstory. Now whether they're actually the same event is up for debate, but claiming they're definitively not is intellectually dishonest.
Edit: Oh, and who says there isn't another Ganon? Multiple Ganons makes the whole messed up timeline a lot easier to swallow.
If you've seen my timeline, then you know I believe theres another Ganon. Did you read my evidence against the OoT/LttP connection? I've posted it at other sites and so far, no one can save that outdated theory. Willing to give it a try? ;D
Okay, if you think that just because it was said more than two or three eyars ago that OOT is no longer LTTP's backsotry, than I see no reason to so much as debate with you over this. If what your saying is true, any theory ever made that was not made within the past five years would be 100% wrong, even religion (Which techniqually counts as a theory. Do not attack me for saying that, I'm saying something that is simply a fact until further notice.).
Quote from: Azure Kite on July 14, 2007, 10:17:28 AM
If you've seen my timeline, then you know I believe theres another Ganon. Did you read my evidence against the OoT/LttP connection? I've posted it at other sites and so far, no one can save that outdated theory. Willing to give it a try? ;D
Well, if you're anything on these other sites like what you are here, then they probably gave up on account of your stubbornness. But I, being the tenacious little bug I am, will not concede so foolhardily. Bring on this "evidence".
Ooh, he just called you out, boy!
Really though, it doesn't count JUST because they made the claim years ago? That doesn't really make sense...I suppose the North didn't win the Civil War either, since that was announced so long ago.
I finally have proof that OoT isn't LttPs backstory!
1=the adult timeline=This has TWW, which explians that Ganons seal weakened enough for him to break out, and take out Hyrule. He eventually dies at the end with the Master Sword in his head.
2=kid timeline=Link gets sent back, and MM happens, and then TP later. TP showed Ganon getting executed, it failed, and he was sent into the Twilight Realm. Aonuma(or Miyamoto, I can't remember who said this) stated that Link was sent back right before he talked to Zelda, and as a result, they talked to the king, and after Ganon did something entirely crazy, they decied to kill him. It failed and later, TP happened.
3= other evidence= the Imprisoning War= LttP backstory stated that people found the Golden Land, and they found out about the Triforce, which they called the Golden Power. Ganon got it 1st which was stated multiple times in the game. It then stated that so many were going into the Golden Land, and fighting each other, that the 7 Sages sealed it, but people knew, and they attacked them. The Knights of Hyrule held them off, but the casting took so long that they were almost all wiped out.
This almost entirely contradicts OoT, as Link fought Ganon to kill him, but he was only able to put him in the Evil Realm. The Sages took only a few seconds to cast the spell, without Zelda, who was the 7th Sage. There wasn't a single soldier left alive to protect the Sages, but they were also in the Temple of Light, which was in the Sacred Realm. Also, people weren't seeking the Triforce, though they might have known of its existence. Ganon only had the ToP, and Link and Zelda had the rest. No person knew of the Sages involvement except Link and Zelda. Aside from Ganon getting sealed in the Sacred Realm, nothing else is really the same.
You might be able to say some of it could correlate by the legend getting obscured by time, but things like the Sages coming in the legend doesn't really make any sense. Also, the TWW legend says nothing about Sages, but Ganon taking over, and Link coming out of nowhere, and winning.
I'm not saying LttP can't be after OOT, but it can't be its backstory.
That enough for ya? People are still debating it on the Hylia, if you want to go there, but it make me and everyone there so much happier if you don't.
We are really off topic.
Quote from: Azure Kite on July 15, 2007, 10:49:56 AM
I finally have proof that OoT isn't LttPs backstory!
I'll be the judge of that. (http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Commodore_Axilon/Forum%20Crap/cop.gif)
Quote1=the adult timeline=This has TWW, which explians that Ganons seal weakened enough for him to break out, and take out Hyrule. He eventually dies at the end with the Master Sword in his head.
Okey dokey, the first problem I see here is you assuming the split timeline is correct, and also assuming everyone else thinks so too. I, as a single timeline theorist, must take issue with this.
The second problem is assuming because Ganon was subject to multiple
other seals in between OoT and ALttP that ALttP's backstory, no matter how eerily similar it is, isn't the one from OoT. That's quite a leap in logic, if I do say so myself.
Quote2=kid timeline=Link gets sent back, and MM happens, and then TP later. TP showed Ganon getting executed, it failed, and he was sent into the Twilight Realm. Aonuma(or Miyamoto, I can't remember who said this) stated that Link was sent back right before he talked to Zelda, and as a result, they talked to the king, and after Ganon did something entirely crazy, they decied to kill him. It failed and later, TP happened.
See both points above.
Quote3= other evidence= the Imprisoning War= LttP backstory stated that people found the Golden Land, and they found out about the Triforce, which they called the Golden Power. Ganon got it 1st which was stated multiple times in the game. It then stated that so many were going into the Golden Land, and fighting each other, that the 7 Sages sealed it, but people knew, and they attacked them. The Knights of Hyrule held them off, but the casting took so long that they were almost all wiped out.
This almost entirely contradicts OoT, as Link fought Ganon to kill him, but he was only able to put him in the Evil Realm. The Sages took only a few seconds to cast the spell, without Zelda, who was the 7th Sage. There wasn't a single soldier left alive to protect the Sages, but they were also in the Temple of Light, which was in the Sacred Realm. Also, people weren't seeking the Triforce, though they might have known of its existence. Ganon only had the ToP, and Link and Zelda had the rest. No person knew of the Sages involvement except Link and Zelda. Aside from Ganon getting sealed in the Sacred Realm, nothing else is really the same.
You might be able to say some of it could correlate by the legend getting obscured by time, but things like the Sages coming in the legend doesn't really make any sense. Also, the TWW legend says nothing about Sages, but Ganon taking over, and Link coming out of nowhere, and winning.
I'm not saying LttP can't be after OOT, but it can't be its backstory.
No, you assume it can't be it's backstory because of stupid little inconsistencies. Such inconsistencies would be expected after the thousands of years between games. And a lot of your points up there are just stupid little assumptions, like there being no knights left in Hyrule or no one else seeking the ToP. How on earth would anyone know any of these things? Oh, and by the way, the Evil Realm
is the Sacred Realm.
Oops, almost forgot. Since there seem to be so many rabid creator's intent nublets around here, I'm going to throw them a bone. Are you aware that Miyamoto himself said they're the same thing?
In short, I really don't care if you personally don't believe that ALttP's backstory is the plot of OoT. My problem with you is your constant dictating what is supposedly right or wrong. You need to learn that in a series, such as Zelda, with such a complicated and self-contradictory timeline, that a lot of things
could make sense. Like the multiple Ganondorf theory which you and I subscribe to, there's not an inkling of evidence for that in any of the games, yet we believe it because it makes sense to us. Of course, other people aren't going to thinks so, and say it's ridiculous. And that's their prerogative. Everything isn't in black and white.
QuoteWe are really off topic.
We are discussing an aspect of the timeline. I don't see how that's off-topic.
666-ZOMG POST OF THE BEAST-666
Stupid little inconstitencies turn into really big ones, like a really big battle, and sages taking a long time to cast a seal as opposed to a few seconds. I don't see why you're even arguing this since you don't think it's OoTs story either.
And, like I said, ALttP takes place thousands of years after OoT. After a global cataclysmic flood even. The fact that the legend is even somewhat recognizable is remarkable.
And where did I say I didn't believe it?
I just have to say this:
OOOOHHHH! Commodore burned you good! ;D
I agree with everything that Commodore said. In fact, there is more than one Ganon:
A)OOT Ganon/TWW Ganon/TP Ganon
B)FSA Ganon
C)I have absolutely no idea about the other games ;)
Unless, of course, you mean that they share nothing in common besides motives and that they do not have the same soul. :-*
Quote from: Whocares on July 15, 2007, 05:21:36 PM
I agree with everything that Commodore said.
Except of course the single timeline, right? (http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Commodore_Axilon/Forum%20Crap/linkwink.gif)
QuoteA)OOT Ganon/TWW Ganon/TP Ganon
B)FSA Ganon
C)I have absolutely no idea about the other games ;)
This is what I think:
Ganon-A : OoT(sealed), TWW(killed), OoA/S(revived, killed)
Ganon-B : TP(killed)
Ganon-C : FSA(reborn, sealed), ALttP(killed[?]), TLoZ(revived[?], killed)
I believe that the Ganon from TP is the Ganon from before Link goes into the future, and when he returns to the past Ganon-B still exists while Ganon-A is trapped in the Sacred Realm due to what happens in the future. Ganon-C is obviously the "ancient demon reborn" from FSA.
QuoteUnless, of course, you mean that they share nothing in common besides motives and that they do not have the same soul. :-*
Oh, they all have the same soul, seeing as B is basically the same guy as A and C is him reborn in a new body.
So, Ganon is sealed in OoT and comes back in TWW from that seal and is turned to stone at the bottom of the ocean. How would he go from a rock to fully alive and in the exact same seal that was already broken? Did you play TWW? Ganon isn't back in the SR, he's a rock at the bottom of the ocean, with the MS stuck in his head. How would it get into a pedestal in a different continent thats elevation was several thousand feet higher than the original Hyrules?
And stop taking your timeline as absolute fact. Just because you think it's that way doesn't mean everyone does. I would find it easier to understand if it was split though.
Quote from: Azure Kite on July 16, 2007, 04:00:17 PM
So, Ganon is sealed in OoT and comes back in TWW from that seal and is turned to stone at the bottom of the ocean. How would he go from a rock to fully alive and in the exact same seal that was already broken?
Obviously he was revived, in FSA most likely, and sealed again. Was that supposed to be a hard question? I'm just saying that the odds of those two instances happening almost exactly the same way aren't very high. I'm not saying that he wasn't sealed by the sages again, just that the story told at the beginning is a legend and not the current state of affairs at the time.You know what? The more I think about it, the more I realize that either way Ganon has to be sealed again by the Sages, and the ALttP backstory
is dissimilar enough to OoT's plot for it to be somewhat believable. So, to be more internally consistent within the games, I concede that they are in fact
not the same event. But, don't celebrate just yet, I still believe in the single timeline and disagree with you about virtually everything else. And I can still understand how others, like Whocares, could see it differently. So, you may have won the battle, but I will win...the next battle. (Cookie for the reference.)
QuoteDid you play TWW? Ganon isn't back in the SR, he's a rock at the bottom of the ocean, with the MS stuck in his head. How would it get into a pedestal in a different continent thats elevation was several thousand feet higher than the original Hyrules?
It's not the same Master Sword. I would've that that much was obvious, going by looks alone.
QuoteAnd stop taking your timeline as absolute fact. Just because you think it's that way doesn't mean everyone does. I would find it easier to understand if it was split though.
Care to point out to me where I'm doing this? I'm merely stating what I happen to think happened. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I'm forcing it upon others.
Quote from: Commodore Ridley on July 15, 2007, 02:34:39 PM
And, like I said, ALttP takes place thousands of years after OoT. After a global cataclysmic flood even. The fact that the legend is even somewhat recognizable is remarkable.
And where did I say I didn't believe it?
Right there. You say LttP is thousands of years after OoT and after TWW, which is not fact.
So you don't believe ALttP takes place thousands of years after OoT? That's fine, but you of course knew that I was simply stating what I thought. Have I ever taken any guise of officialness? I really don't feel like arguing with you over subjects not pertaining the subject of the topic, so, unless you have anything else regarding the timeline to add, let's just drop it.
Wait, how is it not the same Master Sword? :-X
Link (http://desertcolossus.com/compendium2/index.php?Are%20There%20Two%20Master%20Swords%3F), The Hero of Time.
You are of course free to disagree.
Sorry, I thoguht (actually) that you were referring to the OOT and TWW Master Swords. My mistake. ;)