The Desert Colossus

Just tell your opinion of modern day America. Personally, nothing can compare to the Red, White, and Blue!

...I meant to vote neutral but it posted as "very negative." Oh crap.

But, it's not all untrue in very negative; I'm really intending on moving to Canada or Europe as soon as I can. Not because I hate America, but because I like them more. So don't get the idea that I'm anti-America or anything.

Though I do believe that there are lots of problems, I'm not ignoring the fact that they're everywhere. There's simply no escape from this filth that is humanity, sorry to break it to you guys who think it's only in America...

To say that there are no problems is largely ignorant.  I'm a very big patriot, but it's foolish to deny that there are problems plaguing this country right now.

I know that there are problems, but nothing we can't fix.

Quote from: Fisk on July 04, 2007, 05:08:18 PM
...I meant to vote neutral but it posted as "very negative." Oh crap.

But, it's not all untrue in very negative; I'm really intending on moving to Canada or Europe as soon as I can. Not because I hate America, but because I like them more. So don't get the idea that I'm anti-America or anything.

Though I do believe that there are lots of problems, I'm not ignoring the fact that they're everywhere. There's simply no escape from this filth that is humanity, sorry to break it to you guys who think it's only in America...

TO FRANCE!

The goverment does your laundry.

Negative, but livable if you have enough money.

Yes, I'm sure democratic socialism is a nice alternative to America.

I dislike America very much. Very few countries have such ego problems as America. Not saying the rest of the world is perfect, but America is truly far from it. I hope no one will feel insulted by this, as I don't point my finger at individuals and am merely answering a question.

List of bad things:
* Our planet. Pretty much every European country and some Asian countries have started some years ago to take action and bring pollution to a minimum, stop global warming as much as possible. Even though America is responsible for about freaking 1/3th of the earth's pollution, they gave the rest of the world the finger and happily went on polluting, denying global warming and I don't even want to know what was behind that awkward behaviour from the G8.
* Bush. I still don't understand how America could vote for this guy TWICE while the rest of the world didn't want him in the FIRST place. I won't post a list of all his "highlights". I'll talk about the war later and now I'll just say: Libby.
* The war. Not only did America use lies to start the war, they also ignored EVERY SINGLE aspect of international law regarding war. America continiously grants itself rights it DOESN'T HAVE. If international law had the same possibilities as national law, America would go to jail for a loooooooong time. Or....
* Death penalty. The word alone makes me want to puke. Law does not make murder justified, and that's what it is: murder. Even if the system would be perfect, and every convict actually is guilty, it stays disgusting. It's disgusting to kill a human, it's disgusting to grant people the  "right" to watch someone being killed, it's disgusting how inhumane the methods and procedure to kill are.
* Right to bear arms. How can you justify giving people access to things solely meant to kill, harm or threaten others? I'd actually like to see some reports about this matter, because I don't believe America is a safer place with everyone having a gun to "protect" themselves.
* Guatanamo Bay & co.
* How dare America say groups like the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are dangerous, when their own Christians (not all, not all. Same goes for those other two groups) are no less dangerous? But oh well, I guess they are protected because of their nationality.
* Americans think everything "good" and every quality product comes from America.
* Did you know that even China is a safer country than America? Yep, it is. America is one of the unsafest countries in the whole world. Norway on the other hand, is one of the safest (if not the safest.). That goes for most Scandinavian countries. Fun fact: the Scandinavian countries also have the lowest punishments for crimes in the whole world.
* While the rest of the world is catching up, America still has the highest percentage of fat people.
* I could start about stuff like abortion, euthanasia and LGBT rights, but I don't feel like it now and I think I already made my point. (Just to avoid possible confusion, I am pro-abortion, pro-euthanasia and pro-LGBT rights)

I don't mind America, I don't really care much for the government, but it's better than nothing. If I look at other countries, it's makes me kind of glad that I live in a country with free speech and stuff. It may not be perfect, but it's home.  :)

Quote from: LadyNintendo on July 05, 2007, 01:09:40 AM
* Right to bear arms. How can you justify giving people access to things solely meant to kill, harm or threaten others? I'd actually like to see some reports about this matter, because I don't believe America is a safer place with everyone having a gun to "protect" themselves.

I'd just like to say, if we could have guns, what if a criminal came to your house with an illeagel gun? If you were a law-abiding person, you'd be dead. Anyway, my view is positive. We have problems, but I'd rather be here than anywhere else.

Thank you Vaati and Violinist, finally some people who show some patriotism! It just kinda ticks me off when people disrespect America.  

While I said there were problems,  it annoys me when people focus solely on them.  

So what I gathered from your post LadyNintendo, is that there is no redeeming quality to America.  We're a pathetic war-mongering nation that freely gives its citizens the right to kill each other, and if they do, they get killed as well.  Our leader is liked by NOBODY and the entire freakin world is out to get us.  We made up a bunch of crap just so we can go crazy in Iraq.  Never mind the genocide, that was just a "lie" too.  And to quote John Edwards  "The War on Terror is just a bumper sticker slogan."  It has no meaning whether we went in there or not.  Just ignore the fact that they made an unprovoked attack on our soil.  No, we're evil because we retaliated.  I guess that makes Franklin D. Roosevelt an evil man as well.  And since when do we(All Americans) think that everything "Good" comes from our country?  Did you suddenly gain the ability to speak for everybody?

I voted very negative.

Quote from: weetle on July 05, 2007, 07:41:17 AM
I voted very negative.

Can you explain why?

Yeah, an explanation would be nice.

* America is very crowded
* farmers losing land to developers
* the loss of land for rural America
* pollution
* the amount of crimanals
* goverment
* president
* crappy hardware (computers)
* goverment scandals
* lack of smart people (in my school)
* people over obessed with how they look
* and the same reasons as lady nintendo  

What about the government, what about the President?

You have criminals in any country.  It's just something you have to live with.  If you think America is crowded, at least we don't have laws, LIMITING the amount of children a couple can have unlike China, where you're only allowed two children.  Any more than that, and the third and so on get killed.  As far as I'm concerned, and I've made a comment on Jack's blog about it.  This whole pollution thing is being blown way out of proportion.  The reason that I don't buy all of these "Use less fuel" speeches, is because the ones delivering them are hypocrites.  After Al Gore makes a "Speech" about global warming, he goes off in his PERSONAL JET and heads to his next speech.  I think that lack of smart people in your school is a really, really bad reason to hate America.  Are you aware of how many schools there are in this country, and how many of them produce some of the finest people in the country?  And why do you feel the same as LadyNintendo?  Do you know why you support her?  You can support her if you like, but I have to know why.

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I'd just like to say, if we could have guns, what if a criminal came to your house with an illeagel gun? If you were a law-abiding person, you'd be dead. Anyway, my view is positive. We have problems, but I'd rather be here than anywhere else.

I rather get shot to death than being part of a system that makes it easy for people to become eachother's murderer. Also, I wonder how useful guns are for one's own protection. Stats show America has a ridicilous amount of people dying from being shot, far more than any other civilized country. How often does someone manage to save him/herself because he/she has a gun?

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So what I gathered from your post LadyNintendo, is that there is no redeeming quality to America.  We're a pathetic war-mongering nation that freely gives its citizens the right to kill each other, and if they do, they get killed as well.  Our leader is liked by NOBODY and the entire freakin world is out to get us.  We made up a bunch of crap just so we can go crazy in Iraq.  Never mind the genocide, that was just a "lie" too.  And to quote John Edwards  "The War on Terror is just a bumper sticker slogan."  It has no meaning whether we went in there or not.  Just ignore the fact that they made an unprovoked attack on our soil.  No, we're evil because we retaliated.  I guess that makes Franklin D. Roosevelt an evil man as well.  And since when do we(All Americans) think that everything "Good" comes from our country?  Did you suddenly gain the ability to speak for everybody?  

I said "don't feel insulted". But eh, yes, give me one redeeming quality America has, because I, no matter how hard I try, can't come up with one. The quality has to be something very few countries have or something America was the first with.

And yes, about the war thing, you kinda are. "The army" appears to be America's nr. 1 solution. As for Iraq, no matter what was going on there, NO ONE had the right to interfere. Not without permission from that one international organization that was just bypassed. And even if permission was granted, then still this wasn't allowed. This goes far further than merely stopping genocide. Don't tell me America would've bothered if it wasn't for 9/11. Speaking of which, I wish America wouldn't have responded in a way equal to the cowardice of that attack. Just tell me, what has the war gained us?

Lastly, did I say "all Americans"? No. But either you only let your stupidest citizens appear on tv, do surveys etc., or you really should learn more about the world outside America.

*cracks knucckles*

LadyNintendo, while I do indeed respect your opinion, I must say that the liberal and radical left wing nonsesne that spews forth from your mouth truly disgusts me. I really am surprised anybody could be so incredibly brainwashed by their government, or whatever it is that has made you so left wing.

Now then. While America has its fair share of problems, it is indeed my home. And I love it. Its the greatest country in the world, and I am proud to be an American citizen. I voted for great, but there is a little improving to be done.

WHile we're at it, I suggest LadyNintendo reads 1984, by George Orwell. Thats the world we'd live in if you and you're leftist, socialist loons ran it.

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What about the government, what about the President?

You have criminals in any country.  It's just something you have to live with.  If you think America is crowded, at least we don't have laws, LIMITING the amount of children a couple can have unlike China, where you're only allowed two children.  Any more than that, and the third and so on get killed.  As far as I'm concerned, and I've made a comment on Jack's blog about it.  This whole pollution thing is being blown way out of proportion.  The reason that I don't buy all of these "Use less fuel" speeches, is because the ones delivering them are hypocrites.  After Al Gore makes a "Speech" about global warming, he goes off in his PERSONAL JET and heads to his next speech.  I think that lack of smart people in your school is a really, really bad reason to hate America.  Are you aware of how many schools there are in this country, and how many of them produce some of the finest people in the country?  And why do you feel the same as LadyNintendo?  Do you know why you support her?  You can support her if you like, but I have to know why.

Haven't I mentioned America's politics already?

Call me whatever you want, but China's system, even though I reject it, is the only solution for a problem way too many people ignore: Overpopulation. If not for the number of humans, then for the amount of space needed to satisfy their desires. There are too many people, and I think action should be taken. China understood that (although only looking at themselves) years ago. I do hope you mean by "killed" that the parents do so, and not that you think that there's a law stating third children have to be killed. Yes, some parents do that, and that's just plain murder and a painful..... side effect from a failing system. One that has a good basic filosophy though.

As for the pollution thing: you're just proving my former statement. And yes, it is blown out of proportions. That has also been done with acid rain years ago. However, while people overreacted, that was the only way to get them to do something about a problem maybe smaller than said, but far from harmless. Besides, that still doesn't justify America's contribution to polluting this world and not caring about it. European countries spent a lot of money to reduce theirs, America refused to do so (1/3th, people!) and America now gets a cleaner planet without even having to raise a finger. Besides, calling people who ask you to change names, doesn't make it justified to just ignore the whole case. That's also a nice American habit: making people be quiet by digging up dirt and calling them names. And then of course, everything that person said and/or stands for becomes meaningless and ignorable.

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LadyNintendo, while I do indeed respect your opinion, I must say that the liberal and radical left wing nonsesne that spews forth from your mouth truly disgusts me. I really am surprised anybody could be so incredibly brainwashed by their government, or whatever it is that has made you so left wing.

WHile we're at it, I suggest LadyNintendo reads 1984, by George Orwell. Thats the world we'd live in if you and you're leftist, socialist loons ran it.

My "brainwashing" sources:
* Books about International Law, one with all kinds of cases in the history of International Law.
* The newspapers, the news, documentaries, internet and most likely everything else you can think of of the same nature.

Now, for my true response: I'm a lefty and thus I'm brainwashed? That's a new one, and I don't have to guess where that came from (right wing person). First of all, I'm not radical left. I don't really know what makes you think that. if any word would describe me, it's pacifist. I also find it a little sad (please, don't feel insulted) if people state things, but don't give any arguments to back it up. All you say is that *I* am wrong and brainwashed. How about giving YOUR version of the things I said, try to PROVE me wrong rather than calling me names.

As a matter of fact, I read that book. I reject that kind of society. A society that has nothing to do with left or right. 1984 is a tyranny, nothing else. A world run by lefties would be nothing like it.

I vote just negative for some of LadyNintendo's reasons. Notice I said SOME because I do agree with the death penalty and abortion (oh boy am I gonna get ragged on by you guys for saying that :P)

Well I could get a lot more into how America is messed up but I will say that America freaking sucks at warfare. Our American ancestors from the Revolutionary/Civil War days must be rolling in their graves right now. Also, the court system sucks. Say a guy kills 3 people and its obvious he killed them. Well the court will have all these trials and his lawyer will make the whole case drag on and on and in the end the guy gets 10 more years to live free before finally getting a sentence.
Idiots overuse their rights. -If you're a little underage I recommend you to stop reading-
Some of you might have heard about the pedophile groups in America. And guess what. They're legal. You have all of these gay men targeting kids together and you can't do anything about it unless you actually catch them doing something to a kid. And why? Because of all the "freedom of expression" and "the right to assemble" and all the idiots arguing that they can use their rights that way.
The school system is also a joke. Administrators and people from school boards keep sucking money from the government because they are convinced that more money means more learning. Hell no. You can teach a kid fine without it. Make him sit down, throw a math book and a couple classical stories at him and make him read them. (Okay, maybe not, but you get it) You don't need much to teach a kid, although computers in every school is a good idea nowadays. All you need are competent and patient teachers, and we seem to have a shortage of them these days (I can't complain about that one since I had a whole line of great teachers for 3 years straight). Although I don't know exactly how much but there is a noticeable percentage of kids in America who can't read. A good portion are high schoolers. HIGH SCHOOLERS. How it happened that 9+ teachers couldn't teach em how to read escapes me. And now, the exit exam from high school is at the 8th grade level. What is the point of going to school for four more years if you can graduate when you're 13-14? And get this. Some parents are trying to sue because their kids "can't go to college now and make something of themselves." How in the world could they go to a good college if they're so stupid and how in the name of Din could they "make something of themselves?" an 18 year old who couldn't pass a test at middle school level is destined for pumping gas and flipping burgers!

I'm just a young teenager so my opinions could be wrong. So don't get too worked up about them.

Well no matter how much improves or digresses when I'm grown up I'll still move to somewhere in Asia anyway (probably the Phillippines or Japan) because I'm half Asian and it's sorta natural for me :)

I must agree with Lady Nintendo on this, even though SOME people blame the left-wing movement of Europe, you can't deny the truth of the matter: America stinks. Let politics blind you as much and you blame the other side for being as they are, even though politics is reflecting on you. But Lady Nintendo is not american, so you can't really make a point on that.

And she HAS read 1984. There have been fears raised in the recent past where america seemed to get closer and closer to 1984. It is the truth of any extreme political divide, not just strong left, but strong right as well. The strong right favors authoritarian (READ: TOTALARIAN). SO do not try to go about it that way. America is full of hypocrites, and we're so lazy and unconcerned about everything, that just as soon as the rest of the world does something about pollution, america just stands by and attacks them, disrespecting what they've worked so hard to accomplish.

It is a fact, and no amount of political wordplay can conceal the truth: America is not the most well-liked country in the world. Be as arrogant and ignorant as you please, but doing so will only make this place worse, not better.

QuoteThat's also a nice American habit: making people be quiet by digging up dirt and calling them names. And then of course, everything that person said and/or stands for becomes meaningless and ignorable.

In the case of Al Gore, I guess it would be a matter of Do as I say, not as I Do.  Because Al Gore's actions are far from "eco-friendly".

At least he has SOME backbone when it comes to devising environment-policies. and 'actions'? Stuff that's circumstantial and is true of virtually any other politician like having a mansion that spends about as much electricity as any other mansion? Yeah, that's REALLY a good thing to accuse of... hypocrites we all are.

Everywhere has some problems. America has a lot. I'm just ignorant and would much rather ignore them for now. I'm hoping I won't get yelled at for agreeing with LadyNintendo for some of the problems.

Another thing I see quite often, but many others don't... well, in southern Texas, there are two main colleges/universities. There's the University of Texas (Longhorns) and the Texas A&M (Aggies). At my school, the 'smart' class seems divided by which of the two they plan to go to. "I want to go to UT because the Longhorns are great at football!" is what I hear the most often. Now, am I the only one who thinks it's a little... hm... shallow to want to go to a college just because they win more football games? Ugh...

I just want to point out here that alot of you whow dislike America are only telling one side of the story. You conveniently leave out all the great things America has done. If you would ike a list, I'd be glad to cpmlie one.

Now, you say international books on law and a anything else on the Internet all agree with your radical opinion: that America is perhaps the worst country ever devised. I find that extemely hard to believe. Newspapers, the news, documentaries: yes, I;m going to scream the truth you guys like to ingore. THEY ARE ALL LEFT WING. Dont deny it, watch any news stationm or read almost any newspaper.

Now, the entire brianwashes thing? I didnt get that from anybody. I got that from myself, after observing what you guys do and how youact. You really are brainwashed by the media and the government wherever you live to believe, simply, that AQmerica is the enemy and will always be the enemy. Im not denying that America has done some bad things. In fact, America has done some very disgraceful and disgusting things, but you really are brainwahsed when you say you cant find even one redeeming quality to thisa nation. Thats propaganda. I can find one right now if I wanted to off the top of my head.

And 1984, as discussed by my teacher, is a book about a socialist, anti-american world. Radical left people want this, its painfully obvious from the media and their actions.

And you may not realize it, but you really are radical left. What makes me say this? You are extremely anti-war, anti-american, and I would assume (correct me if Im wrong) anti-business. Guess what? That is radical left.

And for the record, Al Gore is a lying, filthy, radical propagandist who has nothing better to do than spread the message for his own agenda. Ill write about this in another post...

If Al gore is a nasty liar, what's that make George Bush?

And NO ONE wants a totalalarian government where only the top 10% of the people have a life. No one wants a government where every word is controlled and the past and history can be conveniently changed to suit whatever propaganda is in the air at the moment. Hah, 1984 was written by a british. It was a scary prospect of what our world can turn into.

And masterkey, you're honestly no better. The positive qualities? They aren't in the issue, because we really are like this. And so what if Lady Nintendo is anti-american? She's not even IN america. She lives in the Netherlands, and it is a sign of the sentiments that Europe and the rest of the world share of us. You may deny it due to 'left-wing propaganda', but honestly, is the right wing any better when all it does is broadcast lies and things to promote political battle? Just look at Fox news.

And the Left wing? We promote the truth, no matter how dirty or ugly it is. Because if we keep denying it the way we do, we're only going to end up looking stupid and hated.

But then again, you could just say 'F*** it, I don't give a care about what the rest of the world thinks of america'. If you think that, then you're part of the problem, not the solution. Just another apathetic, spoiled american concerned with material gain.

Face it: America is the biggest hypocrite on the planet, and that makes me sick.

Quote from: PokéKey on July 05, 2007, 10:20:14 AM
I just want to point out here that alot of you whow dislike America are only telling one side of the story. You conveniently leave out all the great things America has done. If you would ike a list, I'd be glad to cpmlie one.

Now, you say international books on law and a anything else on the Internet all agree with your radical opinion: that America is perhaps the worst country ever devised. I find that extemely hard to believe. Newspapers, the news, documentaries: yes, I;m going to scream the truth you guys like to ingore. THEY ARE ALL LEFT WING. Dont deny it, watch any news stationm or read almost any newspaper.

Now, the entire brianwashes thing? I didnt get that from anybody. I got that from myself, after observing what you guys do and how youact. You really are brainwashed by the media and the government wherever you live to believe, simply, that AQmerica is the enemy and will always be the enemy. Im not denying that America has done some bad things. In fact, America has done some very disgraceful and disgusting things, but you really are brainwahsed when you say you cant find even one redeeming quality to thisa nation. Thats propaganda. I can find one right now if I wanted to off the top of my head.

And 1984, as discussed by my teacher, is a book about a socialist, anti-american world. Radical left people want this, its painfully obvious from the media and their actions.

And you may not realize it, but you really are radical left. What makes me say this? You are extremely anti-war, anti-american, and I would assume (correct me if Im wrong) anti-business. Guess what? That is radical left.

And for the record, Al Gore is a lying, filthy, radical propagandist who has nothing better to do than spread the message for his own agenda. Ill write about this in another post...

So, from a right wing perspective, what is good about America? What is the other side of the story that left wing politics don't want us to know or that we are denying? All you say is "left wings lie", but you apparently are incapable of telling us what the "truth" is. I can't think of a redeeming quality America has (something unique), and you apparently can't come up with one either.

Let me tell you about MY country before you go on attacking left wing politics. My country wanted a more left wing oriented government again, after the awful mess more right wing politics made in the 8 years they had the power. The best party to do this job, and the one who got the most votes, was the SP. Guess what, they hardly will play any role in the next 4 years. Now why? Because the parties siding with America (pro-America and mainly right, although the CDA is whatever currently is in control) and the war this last couple of years refuse to take their responsibility and let things be investigated. The SP demanded this research. So what did those parties do after the elections? The made a coalition (the coalition pretty much decides the course of the country for the next four years. The parties not in the coalition have far less power) between themselves and the PvdA, another, less popular lefty party, that was prepared not to ask questions about the war or America's politics if only it would be in the coalition. And I won't even start about the other "promises" these parties made eachother in order to become the most powerfull. So now the Netherlands are stuck with "Harry Potter" for another four years, our demand for a left wing government is almost completely ignored, and the only good thing that has come from these elections is the Party for the Animals.

Then your teacher knows nothing about left wing politics. It's simple, no one wants 1984; not righties, not lefties. 1984 is a tyranny, that has nothing to do with the mentioned politics. A true Left wing society would balance the rights of individuality and the duties people have towards society and the planet. 1984's government only thinks about themselves, is prepared to torture for that, ignores the individual, and lies. That's not the ways of the left. That shouldn't be the ways of anyone, and certainly doesn't represent either group.

Oh yeah, against war is sooooo radical left. First of all, it doesn't mix with your accusations of left politics in 1984. Secondly, is being anti-war a bad thing? Is it bad to be against killing, hurting, torturing, destroying and telling others how they should be? Is it bad to be disgusted by the filth that comes from war, neatly covered up by governements and other leaders? I am not anti-America, I think the country has a bright future. I can't exactly say what it is, but America feels like it is ready for change. But I do despise the America of today. And no, I'm not anti-business. You'd be surprised how right wing my opinion about business is.

Oops, forgot to respond on your comment about Gore. "Al Gore is a lying, filthy, radical propagandist", again, let's all give people who's message we don't like names, so we can consider the message ridiculous. Tell me, what would he gain from this propaganda of his?

I don't think Al Gore is an idiot for saying something I agree with, I obviously don't think you're an idiot.  I think Al Gore is an idiot for not practicing what he preaches.

All politicians are hypocrites, but at least he tries to put forth policy to help the earth.

At least he is try to help America instead of condemming it... >:(
Besides, if our army stank, how did we free the Iraqis?

Quote from: Zoratunic on July 05, 2007, 02:26:48 PM
Besides, if our army stank, how did we free the Iraqis?

Strawman much? Who here said the US Army stunk? All I heard was that the whole thing was unnecessary, unjustified, and a breech of international law.

And "free the Iraqis"? You make it sound like they're better off now then under Saddam. We've seriously royally screwed that country and its people. Never ending, regional, ethnic, and religious conflicts are the worst.

...And I'm sure some right-wing nut job is gonna come along and twist that to make it sound like I support Saddam.

You totally support Saddam, don't make it sound like you don't, you disgusting lefty.

...anyways, jesting aside; we really did kind of screw over Iraq. /:

What can I say? Every place is disgusting, so long as it has people. We do nothing but fight, we can't stand each other, we have opposing views... it wouldn't be that bad if there wasn't a such thing as an extremist or radical. People just take things so seriously nowadays, too. We're just like ants... attacking anything near us and doing nothing but reproduce and take. At least ants get eaten and provide for the food chain... and eat most of what they kill.

Someone needs to come in with a bucket of water to splash on our "nest" so we'll calm down.

I've actually been keeping an eye on this since I don't have much to say about right/left wing...I'm not even really sure which is which, don't really care either. I just have my views and I keep them, unless somebody makes a really good argument against it.

Don't worry, though, this hasn't been as bad as I thought it would be so far, but if it gets out of hand I'll do something about it, since I have an objective point of view here...

I'll try to keep it clean, Shika. If it offends anyone in any way, I apologize.

I voted for Negative. LadyNintendo said some of my veiws but I am a little less strong about those opinions.

Honestly, is America really "the only example of what a country should be like"? If that were indeed the case, we would have a good reputation with at least a small percentage in some major countries. For example, I stayed in France over the summer. During those 40-ish days, we (my family) were asked questions along the lines of, "Do you hate Bush? I certainly do." by around a 112 people (that's what my journal tallied, at least).

Although I am an American, and I have pride in my country, there are certainly more than a small number of little problems that need fixing.

Quote from: Violinist on July 05, 2007, 06:09:12 AM

Quote from: LadyNintendo on July 05, 2007, 01:09:40 AM
* Right to bear arms. How can you justify giving people access to things solely meant to kill, harm or threaten others? I'd actually like to see some reports about this matter, because I don't believe America is a safer place with everyone having a gun to "protect" themselves.

I'd just like to say, if we could have guns, what if a criminal came to your house with an illeagel gun? If you were a law-abiding person, you'd be dead. Anyway, my view is positive. We have problems, but I'd rather be here than anywhere else.

Still, it would be less killing. Virginia Tech couldn't haved happened if people couldn't get guns. If you have a gun in your house and someone breaks in, thats not what is gonna protect you. What is is a dog, alarm system, etc. Having a gun would simply cause turmoil. And you could be charged with man-slaughter or murder if you killed them. It doesn't help, it generally makes the situation worse.

Quote from: Gamefreak on July 04, 2007, 09:08:21 PM
Yes, I'm sure democratic socialism is a nice alternative to America.

Yes, yes it is.

Lady Nintendo, I wish I was as convincing as you, you had some very good points.

Some of you people need to watch Colbert or Stewart. The people who need to watch these kind of shows, or movies like "SiCKO" or "An Invonvenient Truth." Or if they did, they say its all untrue and stuff like that. Which in in of itself isn't true.

Mike Gravel for President. :P

Quote from: Baka Nezumi on July 05, 2007, 07:23:42 PM
Honestly, is America really "the only example of what a country should be like"? If that were indeed the case, we would have a good reputation with at least a small percentage in some major countries. For example, I stayed in France over the summer. During those 40-ish days, we (my family) were asked questions along the lines of, "Do you hate Bush? I certainly do." by around a 112 people (that's what my journal tallied, at least).  

How can people from other countries judge America if they don't live here?

If somce people aren't really fond of our government, I can see that, but when they judge you individually kind of gets me angry. Like if you go to a different country and the people give you dirty looks because you're American. Isn't that called racism? Not all Americans are stuck up snobs that say "Haha! We're better than all you other countries!", and absolutely love our government and think it's the best government on the whole planet, (A bit of exxageration there) most Americans actually dissagree with some of the government's decisions.
Don't get me wrong, but Canada seems like a bit of a better country than America, so says a proud American.

QuoteSome of you people need to watch Colbert or Stewart.

I have never used Colbert as a credible source of news.  Only for entertainment.

The ultimate thing that makes me angry about this, is that most of the people here are just bashing America.  Do you have any ways to fix it?  Would you do a better job as president?  Quit whining and find some solutions if it's that bad.

I'll say neutral. Yes, there are many things in this country we can improve upon, but there are also many good things that equal or outweigh the bad.

For example, the average person living in London has more money than the average one living in New York. This isn't just because we live in America, but it's because both America and New York have a larger population than London or the UK. But they still have money and an actually first-world life-style compared to the third world countries.

The US also has a very large amount of laws that give the ones living in the country (legally) free rights and give the country order. However, it's not perfect, as the court system, even if it is completely obvious that this one person did commit a crime, NEEDS proof to punish a law breaker, and several law breakers that have no proof against them get freed for this.

And part of the reason people think the crime rate in America is the largest in the world is.... well, where does most of the news today come from? America. What country helps cause a large amount of the news today? America. Which country is the most powerful country in the world? America (although China can be called a super-power) Almost 2/3rds of all the news today is from America. Other countries such as England and Germany have the similar crime rate to ours, but America gets more media attention.

See, every good thing has it's down side, every bad thing has a good side, with rare exceptions.

And I largely agree with Gamefreak, all anyone at all is doing in this topic anymore in insulting America. Well, guess what, half of all of you LIVE in America. If you have anything against us, go to Iraq or Ethiopia or Sudan or China for at least a year, then come back here and compare America to that country. If not, your arguments are pointless, one-sided opinions.

Although there are greater countries than America (UK, for example) there are far more worse countries than America. At least here we have rights, food, electricity, medicine, and other things that are needed, while half of all the other countries on earth don't have any of that for its citizens. To be honest, in fact, you're taking everything for granted and you don't even realize that this country is a great one.

And here's the part that could be viewed as quite mean, and I apologize ahead of time for saying this. All of you who are insulting America right now have become little more than spoiled brats in politics. Do you not know that many other countries don't have what we have? Do you not realize that we have the protection here we need that other nations lack? do you not realize here we have rights while other countries citizens are almost slaves? If you do not accept this fact, then you have no right to insult America at all.

*sigh* I'm glad that is out. Well, I'm not viewing this topic anymore, and please take what I said seriously and don't just cast it off like you probably will.

Quote

Quote
Honestly, is America really "the only example of what a country should be like"? If that were indeed the case, we would have a good reputation with at least a small percentage in some major countries. For example, I stayed in France over the summer. During those 40-ish days, we (my family) were asked questions along the lines of, "Do you hate Bush? I certainly do." by around a 112 people (that's what my journal tallied, at least).  

How can people from other countries judge America if they don't live here?

If your country affects my country, if your country affects the whole world in a way it shouldn't, if your country ignores tons of treaties it made AND quite often refuses to sign one, if your country does things that are against the human rights, then I certainly CAN judge your country while not living there.

Quote
If somce people aren't really fond of our government, I can see that, but when they judge you individually kind of gets me angry. Like if you go to a different country and the people give you dirty looks because you're American. Isn't that called racism? Not all Americans are stuck up snobs that say "Haha! We're better than all you other countries!", and absolutely love our government and think it's the best government on the whole planet, (A bit of exxageration there) most Americans actually dissagree with some of the government's decisions.

That's why I said earlier: no one should take what I say personal.

Quote
Lady Nintendo, I wish I was as convincing as you, you had some very good points.

Thank you. :)

Quote
The ultimate thing that makes me angry about this, is that most of the people here are just bashing America.  Do you have any ways to fix it?  Would you do a better job as president?  Quit whining and find some solutions if it's that bad.

I could never become president, but if you want a list (based on my very first post)
* Spend money to stop pollution. Take responsibilty and start working with Europe and some Asian countries to take care of this problem instead of letting them do the work.
* If I'd be president, I'd never start a war like this. I wouldn't fling around mud to win. I wouldn't give all teh good jobs to friends and protect them when they are obviously wrong. I would actually try to help people who suffered from a mayor disaster. And for as far as possible, I'd tell the truth and as much of it to the people.
* I'd respect international law.
* No more death penalty.
* No more right to bear arms, except for the cops.
* No more avoidable violations of human rights.
* Radical believers, whether Muslim or Christian, would be treated equally.
* Try to figure out what makes the Scandinavian countries a safer place and if possible, try to follow their example.
* Do something about fatsoes.
* some more, but I can't be bothered to come up with them right now.

Quote
The US also has a very large amount of laws that give the ones living in the country (legally) free rights and give the country order. However, it's not perfect, as the court system, even if it is completely obvious that this one person did commit a crime, NEEDS proof to punish a law breaker, and several law breakers that have no proof against them get freed for this.

And part of the reason people think the crime rate in America is the largest in the world is.... well, where does most of the news today come from? America. What country helps cause a large amount of the news today? America. Which country is the most powerful country in the world? America (although China can be called a super-power) Almost 2/3rds of all the news today is from America. Other countries such as England and Germany have the similar crime rate to ours, but America gets more media attention.

See, every good thing has it's down side, every bad thing has a good side, with rare exceptions.

And I largely agree with Gamefreak, all anyone at all is doing in this topic anymore in insulting America. Well, guess what, half of all of you LIVE in America. If you have anything against us, go to Iraq or Ethiopia or Sudan or China for at least a year, then come back here and compare America to that country. If not, your arguments are pointless, one-sided opinions.

Although there are greater countries than America (UK, for example) there are far more worse countries than America. At least here we have rights, food, electricity, medicine, and other things that are needed, while half of all the other countries on earth don't have any of that for its citizens. To be honest, in fact, you're taking everything for granted and you don't even realize that this country is a great one.

And here's the part that could be viewed as quite mean, and I apologize ahead of time for saying this. All of you who are insulting America right now have become little more than spoiled brats in politics. Do you not know that many other countries don't have what we have? Do you not realize that we have the protection here we need that other nations lack? do you not realize here we have rights while other countries citizens are almost slaves? If you do not accept this fact, then you have no right to insult America at all.

*sigh* I'm glad that is out. Well, I'm not viewing this topic anymore, and please take what I said seriously and don't just cast it off like you probably will.

Of course you need proof before you can convict someone. "Completely obvious" does not exist if you can't produce evidence.

And here I see the big difference between me and the ones protecting America: You think solely of yourself, I think of the world.

All your arguments are about how great America is for Americans! What about the rest of the world? You give those the finger, because, as long as your life is fine, everything is fine. Guess what, America is not the world. It is that mentality that I despise. That selfish way. How about the rest of the world who is negatively affected by the "American way" . You got a great military and really, it appears that is America's pride. It's your answer to everything. And what about freedom? All you mentioned about what Americans can get, you can get that in I don't know how many countries. Whoopdiedoo, you got the minimum requirements to be considered a first world country and you consider that good? Nothing more.....? How about the new kinds of freedom that often are a little too controversial for America?

[JQP: I fixed the double post]

LadyNintendo, you just double-posted. Remember, we're in General Discussion, so please merge your posts. I'll let you off the hook this time, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to give you a warning next time.

To make my post relevant, I put "positive," but the one where I admit that there are problems. Right now, though, I think I probably should've put "neutral" because there are a lot of problems that need fixing. :-*

QuoteRadical believers, whether Muslim or Christian, would be treated equally.

That is actually impossible. Whether or not you make that law, people wouldn't follow it. You CANNOT make a law that changes people, it will end in disaster.


Also, let's go over all the good things America has done:

*Citizens of America have made very important inventions.
*Who knows how WWI would end without America, which largely turned the war around.
*The AR inspired many other revolutions (including the French Revolutuion) that changed history for the better.
*Be one of the first conutries actually allowing rights.
*WWII. Enough said.
*Become an inspiration for many other countries around the world.

And many other I won't bother to list.

Bad things:

*War on terrorism.
*Nukes
*Claimed by many to cause poverty, while in actuality we are doing the opposite.
*Global Warming crisis.

And many other minor things I'm too lazy to list.


Unlike you, I am actually taking both sides seriously, all you are doing is casting off everything against you are saying. Unless you are the type who recognizes both sides, then you are someone who almost argues for the sake of arguing.

And also, don't just go around say "All American Leaders Suck", take a look at other countries. Yes, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin were the best world leaders ever. George III (England) was the smartest of all of England's rulers. None of the Popes were EVER in it for money or power.  ::)

QuoteThat is actually impossible. Whether or not you make that law, people wouldn't follow it. You CANNOT make a law that changes people, it will end in disaster.

Then why do we have a law that marks people for 'suspicious behavior' and send them to Guatemala bay for 'interrogations'? The vast majority of the people there are muslim, accused of terrorist activities or 'funding' when they won't even be given a proper trial to determine innocence; it's all with the military and that's just stupid. We pick these people up for the smallest and even most questionable of reasons. And for what? To make a ticker-tape parade showing that we're making 'progress'?

That did little to actually help your case, JQ. I repeat:

you CANNOT make a law that changes people.

You can't make a law that says "You must always be happy", can you? No. Although this is no where near the same degree, it is still based around changing a person, which should in fact be ILLEGAL.

I'm not overly fond of America. But then again I kinda hate my home country of England as well, I'm very far from being patriotic, in my opinion the UK sucks.  

The one thing that annoyed me was, America's refusal to sign the Kyoto protocol, and then making up their own extremely similar anti-pollution thing, just so they can say they started it.
And the right to bear arms is just sick.
I agree with LadyNintendo about everything she said. I'm not saying the American people are bad, just the whole ego thing is out of control.

Quote
If your country affects my country, if your country affects the whole world in a way it shouldn't, if your country ignores tons of treaties it made AND quite often refuses to sign one, if your country does things that are against the human rights, then I certainly CAN judge your country while not living there.

First Question: How does our country violate human rights?

Quote
* No more right to bear arms, except for the cops.

So you saying that we should tell the millions of men and women in America who use arms for sport, hunting, protection, or anything else like that, that their guns are being revoked becuase a small percentage of the gun owning population are using them for crimes?

Quote* Radical believers, whether Muslim or Christian, would be treated equally.

I sorry to say this, but the disagreement between these two groups will not end for a very, VERY, long time.

I also have to argue with Whocares.

Quote*War on terrorism.

Then what shold have we done after 9/11, sit back and watch more acts of terror unfold?

Quote*Nukes

So, if we get rid of our nukes, don't come cryin' to me when the russians or other communists blow Washington off the map. What I'm trying to say is, we can't disarm our nukes until everyone else does.

One more quote!

QuoteI agree with LadyNintendo about everything she said. I'm not saying the American people are bad, just the whole ego thing is out of control.

The thing about ego is, well you shoud know if you have ever read Anthem.

Whew... I need to get all that off my chest!

Very good, TZ, you're taking both sides of the arguemtn into consideration. Yes, America is like a bad article on wikipedia, it needs cleanup, but it can't get anywhere near as bad as Mitsunari Yanagisawa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsunari_Yanagisawa) is, or far worse crap.

Quote from: Zoratunic on July 06, 2007, 11:02:37 AM
First Question: How does our country violate human rights?

You seriously have to ask this question? Ever heard of Guantanamo Bay?

Quote
So you saying that we should tell the millions of men and women in America who use arms for sport, hunting, protection, or anything else like that, that their guns are being revoked becuase a small percentage of the gun owning population are using them for crimes?

Yeah, I believe that's exactly what she's saying. They're weapons. Meant to kill things. That's what they're for.

QuoteThen what shold have we done after 9/11, sit back and watch more acts of terror unfold?

I suppose you're one of those poor misguided souls who thinks that Iraq had something to do with 9/11, right?

QuoteSo, if we get rid of our nukes, don't come cryin' to me when the russians or other communists blow Washington off the map. What I'm trying to say is, we can't disarm our nukes until everyone else does.

Why, because we're better than everybody else? We're more important than them? Our lives are worth more than theirs? That's just sick.

QuoteThe thing about ego is, well you shoud know if you have ever read Anthem.

I have read Anthem, and am at a loss as to what your point is here. Care to elaborate?

Okay, so you're telling me the only reason at all we should keep guns is hunting? If that was the first thing you ever said to me, that might be reason enough for me to hate you. (Seriously, I'm surprisingly easy to anger in real life) Although in some cases for hunting they should be kept, particulariyl if that person's source of food is from hunting, then they should be allowed, but besides that guns should be banned.

And don't think I am the most patriotic American, quite honestly I think the world would be a better place if the UK or Germany were the "head nation" seeing as how they currently are. The UK itself has already assumed that role once, and in that case their ego wasn't what came first.

Quote from: Whocares on July 06, 2007, 11:23:22 AM
Okay, so you're telling me the only reason at all we should keep guns is hunting? If that was the first thing you ever said to me, that might be reason enough for me to hate you. (Seriously, I'm surprisingly easy to anger in real life) Although in some cases for hunting they should be kept, particulariyl if that person's source of food is from hunting, then they should be allowed, but besides that guns should be banned.

Who, me? I have no problem with using guns for hunting. But, sadly, that's not the only thing they can be used for. So, I think it'd be better to play it safe, and just ban them out right. And besides, guns aren't the only things you can go hunting with anyway.

Quote from: Whocares on July 06, 2007, 10:14:08 AM

QuoteRadical believers, whether Muslim or Christian, would be treated equally.

That is actually impossible. Whether or not you make that law, people wouldn't follow it. You CANNOT make a law that changes people, it will end in disaster.


Also, let's go over all the good things America has done:

*Citizens of America have made very important inventions.
*Who knows how WWI would end without America, which largely turned the war around.
*The AR inspired many other revolutions (including the French Revolutuion) that changed history for the better.
*Be one of the first conutries actually allowing rights.
*WWII. Enough said.
*Become an inspiration for many other countries around the world.

And many other I won't bother to list.

Bad things:

*War on terrorism.
*Nukes
*Claimed by many to cause poverty, while in actuality we are doing the opposite.
*Global Warming crisis.

And many other minor things I'm too lazy to list.


Unlike you, I am actually taking both sides seriously, all you are doing is casting off everything against you are saying. Unless you are the type who recognizes both sides, then you are someone who almost argues for the sake of arguing.

And also, don't just go around say "All American Leaders Suck", take a look at other countries. Yes, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin were the best world leaders ever. George III (England) was the smartest of all of England's rulers. None of the Popes were EVER in it for money or power.  ::)

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. When I say all radical believers should be treated equally, I mean that you don't go off to another country because their radical (other) believers are a "threat" while your own believers are no better. I'm not saying anything about forcing people to change, but this "religionism" has to stop.

FINALLY!!!! Someone actually tells me what good America has done the war! And it only took, what?, 3 pages? They stay valid and good points though, except for 1 (inventors you got everywhere, not just in America) and 6.

But if it's the past we're talking about, I can also mention the following: Vietnam, resurrecting slavery in the first world (sure, Europe eagerly helped, but it's still America who brought it back), holocaust on native Americans etc.

Tell me, what did you say in defence of America before this post that was not selfish? I pointed out so much and no one actually said something proving the opposite. All I hear is that "I'm a left wing radical" and that "America (at least) is good for its own citizens". What am I supposed to do but pointing out what the "opposition" keeps ignoring? Suddenly answer myself in an attempt to keep the story not so one sided?

I NEVER said in ANY WAY that all American leaders suck. At the most that you currently got an idiot.

Quote from: Commodore Aqua on July 06, 2007, 11:13:37 AM

Quote from: Zoratunic on July 06, 2007, 11:02:37 AM
First Question: How does our country violate human rights?

You seriously have to ask this question? Ever heard of Guantanamo Bay?

Quote
So you saying that we should tell the millions of men and women in America who use arms for sport, hunting, protection, or anything else like that, that their guns are being revoked becuase a small percentage of the gun owning population are using them for crimes?

Yeah, I believe that's exactly what she's saying. They're weapons. Meant to kill things. That's what they're for.

QuoteThen what shold have we done after 9/11, sit back and watch more acts of terror unfold?

I suppose you're one of those poor misguided souls who thinks that Iraq had something to do with 9/11, right?

QuoteSo, if we get rid of our nukes, don't come cryin' to me when the russians or other communists blow Washington off the map. What I'm trying to say is, we can't disarm our nukes until everyone else does.

Why, because we're better than everybody else? We're more important than them? Our lives are worth more than theirs? That's just sick.

QuoteThe thing about ego is, well you shoud know if you have ever read Anthem.

I have read Anthem, and am at a loss as to what your point is here. Care to elaborate?

1: I have heard of Guantanamo Bay, and in my opinion, the terrorists are getting what they deserve.

2:Not everybody uses their weapons to kill.

3: 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. I was talking about Afaganistan.

4: We should only disarm our nukes when everybody else does so that way we won't get attacked when our guard is down.

5: The thing about Anthem is that the story is saying without Man's ego, we will become the same society that is descibed in the book.

Also, I never said that hunting is the only thing that guns should be used for. Have you watchted the olympics? Shooting sports are the third most participated in game.(behing track and boxing)

QuoteAnd besides, guns aren't the only things you can go hunting with anyway.

Did you know that it's state law in Alaska that you carry a gun on you in the wilderness, since nothing short of one will kill a bear that's attacking you.

Quote from: Zoratunic on July 06, 2007, 11:37:34 AM
1: I have heard of Guantanamo Bay, and in my opinion, the terrorists are getting what they deserve.

First of all, not all of them are convicted terrorists. They're not even given the chance to have a trial.

Second of all, removing the basic human rights of someone just because you don't like them, makes you just as bad as them.

Quote2:Not everybody uses their weapons to kill.

So? That's what they're designed to do. I'd say the off-chance of someone dying in an accidental shooting speaks for itself. When people's lives are at stake, then we should take as many precautions as possible.

Quote3: 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. I was talking about Afaganistan.

Well, bully for you. But, believe it or not, the war in Iraq is part of the War on Terror.

Quote4: We should only disarm our nukes when everybody else does so that way we won't get attacked when our guard is down.

Again, there's that sense of unentitled superiority that the rest of the world despises us for.

QuoteAlso, I never said that hunting is the only thing that guns should be used for. Have you watchted the olympics? Shooting sports are the third most participated in game.(behing track and boxing)

Yes, and those guns are used in a supervised and controlled environment. What's your point?

QuoteDid you know that it's state law in Alaska that you carry a gun on you in the wilderness, since nothing short of one will kill a bear that's attacking you.

Well, that begs the question of why someone's trudging around in the Alaskan wilderness for in the first place.

Those people often are NOT terrorists! America throws everybody in there who just happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong skin colour/faith. And how about those torture camps that weren't downright denied? How about the death penalty? All violations.

I'll leave my opinion of hunting out of this. Yes, guns should become illegal. I could see some exceptions for sport, if the rules are strict (and possibly, alternatives should be sought). Who likes using a real gun anyways? What kind of person are you if you like performing an action that is intended to kill or become better at it?

What are you talking about? I'm not saying believers should denounce their fate, or become friends (would be nice though). I'm talking about America loving Christians and hating Muslims. Discrimination always is an ugly thing.

You should not have gone to war like this after 9/11. You should have discussed actions to be taken with other countries rather than saying: "I'm going to war. Who doesn't support me will get in (economical)  trouble!"

And that mentality about arms is what keeps the world a dangerous place. A couple of trigger happy countries will keep their weapons, claiming for defensive purposes only, and nothing will change. Those countries have at least as much reason to fear you as you them, possibly more. Scared of communists, btw? How American.

PS. Not that the Netherlands could ever be a threat to anyone, but our current minister of defense wants to spend less money on our army and even remove some of our current defenses.

Communism is basically split in half, one half completely destroyed (USSR) and the other half still alive (China and smaller countries). It can be safe to say that China would be a better country under a non-communist government, and with Communist China gone N. Korea would be the major communist country, and..... enough said. By that point everyone would go "What is communism?"

QuoteThose people often are NOT terrorists! America throws everybody in there who just happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong skin colour/faith.

What proof do you have that they aren't terrorists?  I'm not saying they are, because I have no proof, but how do you know they aren't, without having any proof?

You know they're not given a trial, right? And, on the rare occasion that they are, they don't even get a lawyer.

Even so, that doesn't mean that they're not terrorists.  For all you know, they could be a terrorist who got a bad trial.

Quote from: Gamefreak on July 06, 2007, 12:10:44 PM

QuoteThose people often are NOT terrorists! America throws everybody in there who just happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong skin colour/faith.

What proof do you have that they aren't terrorists?  I'm not saying they are, because I have no proof, but how do you know they aren't, without having any proof?

Isn't it "not guilty unless proven otherwise"? If they want to keep those people there, they have to prove they're terrorists (something America jsut refuses to do). If they want them convicted, it has to be within a fair time limit, with a fair trial. And under no circumstances are the things done there allowed.

But proven or not, does it physically mean that they are not terrorists unless proven otherwise?

They may be held for a short amount of time (not years)  under reasonable conditions (coughcough) to figure out whether a case can be made against them, followed by either the promise of a fair trial with a date or freedom.

Like all suspects.

And by the anti-terror laws, just about anything can qualify oneself as a 'terrorist'. Which makes things muddled and the actions of the government highly questionable. To which case, they automatically label just about everyone as a terrorist, without any prooff to support it, and when someone asks, the person who supports such things go 'prove that they're not terrorists', which again, falls to flawed reasoning, because it can be proven that they aren't terrorists, and in fact, have never committed an act of terror.  But the people who are in charge wont allow this sort of thing, because it'll just make them look even more stupid when it is proven that their reasoning was flawed. So those in charge do whatever they want to support and protect themselves and their actions, which is just another example of arrogance.

Quote from: Gamefreak on July 06, 2007, 09:13:47 AM

QuoteSome of you people need to watch Colbert or Stewart.

I have never used Colbert as a credible source of news.  Only for entertainment.

The ultimate thing that makes me angry about this, is that most of the people here are just bashing America.  Do you have any ways to fix it?  Would you do a better job as president?  Quit whining and find some solutions if it's that bad.

Beyond the entertainment, he is very credible by showing how ridiculous the goverment is being. And yes, I do have some ways to fix things, and yes, I believe my brothers dog would do better than Bush as President. Thing is, I'm a teenager, and nobody ever listens to you if you are.

QuoteFirst of all, not all of them are convicted terrorists. They're not even given the chance to have a trial.

Did you know that the right to a trial by jury is in the Constitution, which only applies to American citizens, right?

Whoever said anything about them not being american citizens?

Quote from: Zoratunic on July 06, 2007, 02:02:18 PM
Did you know that the right to a trial by jury is in the Constitution, which only applies to American citizens, right?

So you're telling me that were I a citizen of, say, Canada visiting the U.S. on vacation, and I was accused of a crime, they could hold me indefinitely without any explanation? You have no idea what you're talking about.

And let's not forget about citizens of OTHER countries, where holding them without a trial or reason would be deemed suitable for negative repercussion.

Quote from: JQ Pickwick on July 06, 2007, 02:16:27 PM
And let's not forget about citizens of OTHER countries, where holding them without a trial or reason would be deemed suitable for negative repercussion.

Thats why we just tell them to get the heck out of our country.

That is the most flawed reasoning I have ever heard. What if they're here on business? Or Immigration? You cannot deny them simple, human, inalienable rights just because they happen to be in our country.

QuoteThats why we just tell them to get the heck out of our country.

Even I found that to be a little harsh.

I really think that this has gotten out of control, and at this rate will become a flame war. Can we please calm down?

No, things are running pretty good right now.  

Ummm, you mean compared to what this will become, right?

Well, that's for us to figure out.  For two people, (ZoraTunic and LadyNintendo) whose opinions seem to be the polar opposite of each others, they're doing a good job of keeping it clean.

Okay, I've stayed quiet mostly, but I would also like to point out something in the constitution that can help clear up this debate about the trials...it says that they believe all men should have equal rights....so therefore they would get a trial to...okay then...

Yes, if we don't believe in the rights our constitution gives us so much that we don't want people from other countries to have them, then thats sad. Well, then what is the so-called reason we invade contries?

I"m pretty sure that the World Wars were just to help our allies out, Afghanistan was payback for 9/11, Iraq is because they supposedly had weapons that they were supposed to have disposed of...

And every war we ever fought in the 1800s was for territory. Vietnam and Korea was becasue of the anit-communism movement.

And Iraq was oil. But in both Vietnam and Iraq, and possibly Korea, I'm not sure, they told us it was to promote democracy and give them their rights. Ya right.

Also, communism, if humans weren't such greedy slimeballs, is a great concept. (Yeah for being a Swampert)

About the kicking people out part, I meant criminals from other countries. I forget what the term used for sending them back to their own countries for trial is...

Deportation?  If it were only that simple...

This topic has certaintly spiraled into a very interesting discussion.

I didnt vote for completely positive, I voted for positive but in need of imporvement. That's just to clarify.

America is not a perfect nation. Far from it. But it is not nearly as devious as most of you make it out to be. America is a positive influence in the world, despite its flaws.

Correction: It USED to be a positive influence. Now it's just hated.

Used to be, huh?

Insetad of just saying that, I beg of you (cause I really am curious)- JQ, LN, or anyother person who can, please give me a logical and sane reasn how America is a devious and disgusting force.

You're the one who said that America was still a positive force in world affairs. The burden of proof is on you.

I think not. I have evidence. You guys just say its total and complete evil and you give no valid reasoning.

My Reasons:
1. Freedom of the Iraquis from a dangerous dictator
2. Portecting Kuwait back in the day from Saddam.
3. What about the million of dollars that America spends on charities for help worldwide?
4. Influencing other countries to go the democratic path, and to be free.
5. Providing shelter for those in need of a better life/ place to be generally safe.
6. And let's not forget World Wars 1 and 2.

Most of those things are of the past, not today. And Lady Nintendo already gave a whole LOT of examples, the main one being that it doesn't care and openly gives the finger to other countries that are working to help the world, environment.

1. Bwahaha! They are worse off now.
2. In the past? We said it did used to be.
3. Alright, I'll give you that.
4. You mean invading other countries and forcing them to have a puppet goverment?
5. Such as the immigrants were sending to Mexico, even if they are citizens?
6. Again, we did say, "used to be." Also, blowing up Japan, wasn't that good an idea.

QuoteI think not. I have evidence. You guys just say its total and complete evil and you give no valid reasoning.

Yeah, LadyNintendo definitely knows what she stands for and i respect that.

I still don't know how people from other countries can dis America if they've never actually lived here. I read this article in Times magazine about what other countries think of America. The only ones with a positive outlook on us are some of the third-world countries.

The third world countries have had pretty much nothign to do with us though, besides our charities. They really haven't experienced the rest of America...

Also, if it's not right for them to diss America without living there, how is it any different to praise it?

And if one country affects another, then we have every right to have an opinion about that country. Saying 'how can foreigners have a bad opinion about America?' is like saying 'how can we have a bad opinion of China/North Korea/Vietnam if we don't live there?"

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/jackals_incarnation/Zoidbergagrees.jpg)

That's a great point, JQ. Things can't go just one way; That would be hypocrisy. and saying they can't have negative opinions but can have positive opinions just isn't fair.

I wasn't saying it was alright to praise America if you haven't been there, I just don't like it being called a bad country by people who both do and don't live here.

And this is why I say in complete confidence three little words:
GOD BLESS AMERICA

So you're telling me it's not alright for you to hate Europe because you don't live there?

So, we shouldn't have a problem with Afgahnistan for killing thousands of our people? Like I said, it's hypocrisy if it doesn't go both ways.

Why would I hate Europe?
Besides, "you can't judge a book by it cover" just about sums it up.

They can, because people tell them what its like, just like they tell us how much better it is there. Take France. They do your laundry.

Too bad I had to leave yesterday. This is a pretty interesting discussion.

There's something though, that I myself also has never thought of before I my classes "Philosophy of Law". We, the first world countries, think we know what's best for everyone. We were the ones who "created" human rights, decided what belonged to that category and what not. We "encourage" people and countries to use OUR democratic system. We "free" people from systems and situations that WE consider bad. But who are we? God? The World? Or just a powerful part of it that always thinks it knows best?

The world is more than just the West. It contains thousands of cultures that are nothing like ours. But does that make them bad, or at least, less than our culture? The democratic path is what we consider the best; that doesn't necessarily mean it is. And freedom: some countries or areas indeed grant their people less rights than our countries do. But for some countries, the group is just far more important than its individual members, unlike in the western world. It's just a matter of opinion what's better. If a country WANTS to change and is ready for it, it's up to its people to start the change. We could do it, so can they. It's not up to us to tell them to change, and certainly not by bringing in a couple of guys carrying guns and driving tanks.

Yes, America does spend a lot of money on charity. So does everybody (size of the country taken into account). But America is one of the countries more "eager" to stop giving money if they notice any negative effect, even if it is by far outweighed by the positive effects.

I do not deny the great job America has done during WWI and WWII. However, there are no winners in war. There is no altruism and there are certainly no heroes. America didn't fight for others; they fought because they had to for themselves in order to survive. That's what everybody did, even Germany.

"...Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace..."
                        -John Lennon

You know what worked? President Roosevelt's strategy of "Step lightly and carry a big stick". It worked by America remaining neutral and making sure it had the defenses to kick the butts of anyone who messed with us. However, after WWII, we got more entwined with other country's affairs, so that was the biggining of the world's negative view of America. It used to be the place to be, with everybody immigrating here, and being the most powerful country in the world, that was what worked.

You forget, however, we are the only superpower left in thw world, with a possible exception from the rising China. If all we do is just watch as the other nations fights themselves to death, what would be the point?

The point would be that nobody would get mad at us because we would be minding our own business.

Although I do admit the War in Iraq wasn't the smartest move, do you really think that we were supposed to just sit there during 9/11? Although the Afghanistan war was smart, as the terrorists THERE did it, Iraq was a terrible move, but now that we're involved in Iraq, it would be a very bad idea to just leave immediately, who knows what the terrorists would do then.

Why? It's not like it's going to actually get any better over there. Might as well cut our losses now, don't you think?

Actually, it would be a good idea to leave. Because us being there actually would recruit terrorists.

Also, we were called terrorists in the revolutionary war.
(actually my ancestors were in Ireland and Mexico, but whatever)

I'm not saying we shouldn't have attacked Afgahnistan. They did 9/11, so taking them out was our business.

You get attacked by a few "punks" and so you attack a country? That could've been handled with a LOT more care.

I agree that you cannot leave Iraq now. It wasn't the most stable and safe country in the world to begin with, but now it's complete mess. There is no government (well, not one who will be able to keep the power). We got involved and we can't just leave now after making the mess worse. If we'd leave, I can guarantee several parties (among which Hussein's followers) will start fighting eachother for power at the cost of everybody else. While I want this to end, just leaving is not the solution.

Well, we couldn't just sit back and let them do more attacks.

It seems like Iraq is a mess we'll never be able to pull out of. This isn't one of those wars like before, where there's a definite target, like Germany or Hitler, and once that's taken care of the war's over. Here...we have no target, no goal. We just fight the rapidly growing terrorist force.

Goal = Remove terrorism as a major international threat, or as some people like to think, get oil

Yes, we can't leave Iraq now. Afghanistan is not what it used to be anymore, we've made it BETTER, as now there are more rights and a non-terrorist country, Iraq will just take years, at least another 5.

Well, look on the bright side. At least we have a few allies in the Middle East: Israel (duh!) and Jordan, even if they aren't active allies.

Honestly, Israel doesn't have much to spare...they're busy with their own war...

Exactly. And Jordan.... well, Jordan is very advanced considering it being in the Middle East, which isn't exactly full of highly developed nations.

If the middle east could just get past the constant stream of wars that are based on religion...

Basically, that means destroying Al Queda as a whole and killing Osama Bin Ladin.

If you think Al Qaeda is the only thing in the Middle East motivated by religion, then I'm afraid you're seriously mistaken.

Al Queda is the most notable of them, you know. And Al Queda is only using religion as a disguise, the leaders in truth want domination over anything possible, and to destroy the US.

If we don't leave Iraq, it won't get any better.
Maybe leaving isn't the "moral" thing to do, but really, we can't do anything about the fighting any more than we can stop Israel and Pakistan.

Quote from: Whocares on July 07, 2007, 12:07:19 PM
Goal = Remove terrorism as a major international threat

Whoa, okay, I do believe I said this before: Terrorism isn't going to stop with a war. It'll just make terrorism a much bigger problem.

And we can't really leave now; we've got ourselves stuck there. Sort of like a fishhook in a fish's mouth; it's stuck and it's not getting out by our own doing. Maybe if they let us "off the hook" we can get out.

Everyone deserves equal rights, whether or not they're from America or not. /: It doesn't matter if you're, oh say, black, gay, female, from another country, etc. We all deserve the same rights; we are human after all.

Quote
Well, we couldn't just sit back and let them do more attacks.

And, have the attacks since then stopped? Well, I guess we could then get rid of that horrible security system that by now must have blown up more socks lunch boxes than actually something dangerous.

Was war the only answer? An eye for an eye? What if careful diplomacy would have been the answer? I doubt the muslim-rest of the world border would never have become this big. I doubt Al-Qaeda and similar groups would have gotten this many followers and half-followers if that war had not labeled Muslims as "terrorists".

Destroying Al-Qaeda won't stop the religious war.

I'm not saying the war was the best answer, I'm just saying that sitting there and doing nothing wasn't a good idea either. Diplomacy counts as doing something.

QuoteWhat if careful diplomacy would have been the answer?

I doubt that the terrorists would actually listen to diplomacy.

QuoteThere's something though, that I myself also has never thought of before I my classes "Philosophy of Law". We, the first world countries, think we know what's best for everyone. We were the ones who "created" human rights, decided what belonged to that category and what not. We "encourage" people and countries to use OUR democratic system. We "free" people from systems and situations that WE consider bad. But who are we? God? The World? Or just a powerful part of it that always thinks it knows best?

This is actually an excellent point, and one that I agree with entirely.

As for Iraq, we cannot leave and cut our losses, that would be, as said before, immoral. We'd be abandoning the people who we freed in the first place, and to me, that is a terrible terrible thing to even consider.

While attacing Iraq was indeed a stupid idea (for the most part) we cannot pull out and I have a feeling things will get better given time.

Quote from: Zoratunic on July 08, 2007, 07:04:48 AM

QuoteWhat if careful diplomacy would have been the answer?

I doubt that the terrorists would actually listen to diplomacy.

It's all about presentation and choice of words. While, yes, many are steady on their opinions, probably at least one will be changed by it.

And... is a war no one can win really that much better?

I have to disagree. Terrorists are really insane, diplomacy won't work with them. It didnt work with Hitler, did it? Im sorry, but it won't work with Jihadists either.

North Koreans? Yes, probably, seeing as how they are more civilized.

I really think that the terrorists aren't about to step down any time soon, no matter how nice we are to them. I remeber this political poll they made us take in my school, and on the question regarding terrorism, the most idiotic of all the possible answers stated "If we leave the terrorists alone and treat them kindly, they will all stop their activities and immediately become law abiding citizens." I don't think even an optimist would say that.

The word 'civilized' is meaningless and opinionated because it reflects a personal bias in relation to who we deem to be 'civilized' and who we deem as 'savages', with questionable merit on what defines each. You think they'll run up to you hoping to cut your throat in half a second? Such biases and misconceptions are reminiscent of the west's point of view that people strange to us are 'savages' without any better idea as to who is really the savage.

I wouldn't call the terroists savages, just insane jihadists.

Just to make the observation: how can you call U.S.A America? There are like more than 50 countries in America, the rest of America has more geographic territory than U.S.A, there are like Panama, Cuba, Paraguay, Colombia, Canada, Mexico, etc.

That would be North America and South America. How about I live in Britian and walk around calling it the United Kingdoms the whole time? It's just easier. Nobody living anywhere else in North/South America calls their country America, because we're the only country with America in the name.

Semantics. Is it really a problem? It's not like nobody understands what we're talking about. We call ourselves America, the rest of the world calls us America, I just don't see the problem. And it certainly is easier if we call ourselves "Americans" instead of...what? "United Statesians"?

Sure I understand, but America is a continent!! it is not only a single country I understand is the only one with America in their whole name but there are too many countries in North, Central and South america, that isn't fair that a single one takes the name of the continent they are in.

We don't call ourselves North America. That's the continent. The continent is NOT called America.

And combined with central and south, it is America!

Do you call yourself an American? On a regular basis?

Not even once.

Then what, pray tell, is the problem?

It is just an observation because calling yourselves Americans is generalizing too far what America really is.

North America and South America do NOT make up America. Never once have I heard these two completely seperate continents combined into a supercontinent.

I like America.
Being an American citizen means that I'm not an Iranian sub-citizen. It means that Turks, Kurds, and other excitable Moslems are not raiding my village and brutally slaughtering my family and friends in front of me. I really appreciate this fact. Not to ruffle your collective feathers because I said "Moslems" (gasp), but there really is a big difference between here and there. Where I am here in the US, it isn't looked well upon if you get killed or stolen (if you happen to be a good looking girl that somebody thinks they might have a husband for, yes, it happens, take your PC-ness somewhere else and suck it up)  because you're another religion and speak another ("barbarous") language. When it happens in the US, people go looking for the person or people who committed the crime. In Iran, when several million of my ethnic group, you call it, as well as others were wiped out because of the aforementioned reasons, they said, "good riddance." Turkey still doesn't want you to know about it. Violently doesn't want you to know about it. Threatened the United States for considering making a memorial about it.
And they're still doing it. It does happen. It's not a myth from "the man." It's truth straight from me.

Anyhow. The U.S. has very obviously got problems. Lots and lots of problems. They're all over the news, they're everything our leaders and potential leaders argue about, and they hit right down to the local level. Yup. Problems.
Problems are in every country. It's all a matter of preference, I think, where citizens decide which problems they'll accept and bear and which ones they won't. Well, maybe not preference, but perhaps something more like culture and what you're used to. What seems right, so to speak.
I personally prefer the problems here to the problems in many other countries. For example this: if the healthcare in Canada is so wonderful, why is it that the ones who can afford it still ship over to the US to get work done? So that means it isn't all that it's cracked up to be. Somebody's still only settling because they have to. I suppose you could say, at least everybody gets something. Just so long as you don't mind what you get. Likewise, I've heard of people in several European countries complaining that they've got to get dental work done, but they've got to wait months to get in. By that time, what of their medical/dental conditions? And another thing was mentioned-- many medical tools are out-dated. Yikes. Another thing a friend from Voronezh, Russia (now living in the US) tells me: in Russia, there's a mandatory period in the summer time during which the government works on the water piping. They shut off your water. Not so bad, right? Well, guess what-- you don't get to make a complaint about it until it's been off for over two weeks. And another Russian woman who rented our upstairs? She had some trouble but wouldn't go to the police and we couldn't figure out why; later she told us that she was scared. She went to the police once in Russia and they told her to get out with her problems, and that they'd rape her and kill her if she ever came back.
Really nice.

So I look at what I have, look at what I could have, and all around I'd say I'm pretty content right here in the States. That doesn't mean I don't get furious with the politics, and that doesn't mean I don't passionately press issues that I see that mean a lot to me. It also doesn't stop me from scowling at American culture, its various facets, and things that generally aren't to my approval. It just doesn't stop me from enjoying them, either.

Quote
It's truth straight from me.

Why does this sound so incredible funny?

Although I do not agree with Zoratunic that one can't judge a country (s)he has never been to when talking about their business with the rest of the world, I do agree you can't judge a country on how it handles its own problems, unless you have been there. Well, I guess it isn't required, but it definetely makes that person's opinion more credible.

I do not judge America on how it handles its own problems (except for death penalty, which they, btw, also have used on more than one occasion on people not from the USA; and the right to bear arms). I can't, because I hardly know anything about America's inner workings. And I certainly am not going to assume I know something of a country based on one random source.

As for the first part, I'm tempted to say that even green/white spotted bread must taste jummy compared to poo. You're really looking for the worst examples. It's absolutely fantastic that you are happy with what you got, because you know it could be far worse/less. But I bet even in those regions the citizens will be happy they still have it better than (random country). Doesn't mean anything. Besides, the stories about "slaughtering" and "raping", it's not like our armies have been prime examples of humane behaviour. I'm pretty sure that when this is over, the accusations will come (more than there are coming now).

Back to the diplomacy and terrorists; I wasn't talking about the terrorists. America should have looked farther than the army. It should've talked with the countries they now dragged along to war about how to handle the situation. Who knows, maybe isolation would've done the trick as well. If war would be considered the only solution, at least it would be something we would all agree to and not just America. International law would be applied; those rules don't exist for nothing. At least a more organized war wouldn't have made the gap between teh islam and the rest of the world (so much) bigger, driving thousands, millions of muslims and formerly not-muslims to groups like Al-Qaeda.

Quote from: LadyNintendo on July 09, 2007, 12:49:37 AM

Quote
It's truth straight from me.

Why does this sound so incredible funny?

I don't know. You explain it to me, because it sure isn't making me giggle.

It's true that in those regions people will be glad they have better than other places worse. Hence where I said

QuoteIt's all a matter of preference, I think, where citizens decide which problems they'll accept and bear and which ones they won't. Well, maybe not preference, but perhaps something more like culture and what you're used to.

How don't they mean anything? They mean a lot. They're everything that gets argued over, including right here in this thread.
Those aren't really the worst examples, though, are they? They're commonalities, right down to the "rape" and "slaughter" you're pointing out. It's true our armies (I noticed you're from the Netherlands, but I think it's fairly accurate to say "our" in reference to both of our nations' armies) do terrible things. I hear a lot of horrible news about soldiers in Iraq raping women and young girls, and it's embarrassing and shameful.
My own slaughter story, as I've posted above? That's nothing you can compare our modern armies to. If you consider me an incredible random source, you might look it up for yourself if you're interested. Not trying to be the snide, "omg, you don't know?! look it up!!" kind of person, no, not at all. I'm making suggestions that defend what I know is true, which is for whatever reason humourous to you, and shouldn't be. Unless you're prone to jokes about genocide, I guess.
(Anyhow, keywords to search for: Assyrian genocide, Armenian massacre, Bedr Khan. Mostly you'll find things from the early 1900's, although it had been going on not only before that and continues on to this day. Enjoy.)

I don't believe in the death penalty, either. I don't think it's right for any group to decide who should die. That's personal business, but personal business has no place in the government. Besides, it's a breach of our Rights, which we're (supposed to be!) very proud of, am I right? Even prisoners have rights, including the right to life.
However, I do like the right to bear arms. It's obvious that trust in the government is waning; why wouldn't I want to be able to defend myself from the great body and arsenal that government, by nature, is?
Another fact is this: guns are easy to make if you know how to do it. A lot of people know how to do it. And there are people who traffic them, as so many things are. I live in a pretty crap town, and most people have guns. Those guns are illegal, and I could go out now with 50 dollars in my pocket and come back in an hour with one. Guaranteed. If the right to bear arms is gone, people will still...bear arms! People who choose to not blatantly disobey the law will have absolutely no protection, while criminals will still have everything they ever did.
Here's another personal example, this one here in the US: people used to try to break into the house at night, and one incident was a man trying to chase that woman renter upstairs through her door. Our own firearms came into good use here, for our personal protection. No, nobody got shot, but it saved us because they were scared.
I know everyone hears the "boiling frog" analogy.  I can't let a political system yank my only protection from IT right out of my hands. I don't find it right. I find it scary.

As for the diplomacy bit, I agree with you in regards to "looking farther than the army." It was a clumsy move that put many other nations in very, very awkward positions. On top of it, if the US really just had to do it? I'm sure we could have used a more strategic approach than pussy-footing around every which way. It seems we're spread irrevocably thin now, and less safe than ever because if something should ever happen directly to us, we doubtfully will be able to help ourselves.

I hate america.

Thank you for that long, thought-out explanation of what you disapprove of. My opinion has been changed a great deal because of that convincing argument.

C'mon, Shika. I don't think he was trying to convince anyone, just let him express his opinion.
I like America, otherwise, if I didn't, what the heck am I doing here? Although, I don't agree with some of the things. I don't realy like those stuck up Ameircans. (I don't know many, but I do know some)
But the only ture Americans there are here are the native Americans, other than that, everyone has ancestors that came from somewhere else. Mine came from Ireland, Poland, and Germany. So we really are like their cousins.

Point is, in the heat of this debate.  For that to come along is....a little odd.

Weetle, if you hate America so much, please explain why.

Yes, please explain weetle. Do you hate it's people? It's government? It's supreme awesomeness?

Quote from: Zoratunic on July 10, 2007, 10:50:09 AM
It's supreme awesomeness?

That's kinda impossible, what with it not being supremely awesome.

I don't believe any country is as good/can ever be as good as some of you make out America to be. You must be extremely blinkered to think that America is some sort of Utopia.
Yeah, maybe to you it's the best country, but that doesn't mean it is.

And you keep saying no one can dislike America if they don't live there, then how can you possibly believe it to be the best if you haven't been to EVERY other country.

Don't get me wrong America's probably a hell of a lot better than where I live, Britain sucks.
But no country is perfect.

Oh and by the way on the poll I voted Very Negative, I never mentioned that.  

Here's the thing. I agree that there are a lot of problems in America. I complain about it a lot. However, I have to think, would it be any better if I lived anywhere else? At least in America I have freedom, I never go hungry, don't have to worry about being killed, and live a comfortable life. I think it has problems, but I also think it's about as good as it gets.

Quote from: x*Twilight Zelda*x on July 10, 2007, 11:14:35 AM

Quote from: Zoratunic on July 10, 2007, 10:50:09 AM
It's supreme awesomeness?

That's kinda impossible, what with it not being supremely awesome.

I don't believe any country is as good/can ever be as good as some of you make out America to be. You must be extremely blinkered to think that America is some sort of Utopia.
Yeah, maybe to you it's the best country, but that doesn't mean it is.

And you keep saying no one can dislike America if they don't live there, then how can you possibly believe it to be the best if you haven't been to EVERY other country.

Don't get me wrong America's probably a hell of a lot better than where I live, Britain sucks.
But no country is perfect.

Oh and by the way on the poll I voted Very Negative, I never mentioned that.  

I have to agree. America isn't all that. And the UK seems like a nice place, but that's just me. I've never been to any other country other than Canada.

Well, America is supremely awsome in my opinion.

Haha that's cool then. ^^
I've got no problem if it's just your opinion.

And Vaati, I probably over exagerated a bit. Britain doesn't suck. It's nice it's just our NHS is awful and our government just does whatever America tells 'em to a lot of the time.
It just seems so dull to me, living somewhere all your life makes everywhere else seem exotic.

I knew you were.  ;)
Anyway, same with me. I would like to visit another country. Like Japan. But it's really expesive to fly there, my dad says.

hmm.. whats "NHS". and i would like to go to japan someday too  :)

If I'm correct, NHS means National Honor System, right? At least it does here, where it's some kinda school thing. But of course I live in South Texas, and TZ lives in Britan,  both of which are literaly worlds apart from each other, so my defenition may be wrong. And even though America is my favorite, I wouldn't mind visiting other countries, like Spain, or Japan.

Quote from: Zoratunic on July 10, 2007, 03:40:33 PM
But of course I live in South Texas, and TZ lives in Britan,  both of which are literaly worlds apart from each other

...
???
Do you know what literally means? Because there is nothing but an Ocean between America and Britain.

Anyways, I don't think America and Britain are really all that different. Sure, there are some things like accents and school systems and such...

...And Europe has much better music...

Oops, ignore that.

Anyways, there aren't that many differences in the culture, I guess. Though I like the culture in England more, it's pretty much a matter of preference.

Quote from: Shikamaru Nara on July 10, 2007, 04:06:05 PM

Quote from: Zoratunic on July 10, 2007, 03:40:33 PM
But of course I live in South Texas, and TZ lives in Britan,  both of which are literaly worlds apart from each other

...
???
Do you know what literally means? Because there is nothing but an Ocean between America and Britain.

Anyways, I don't think America and Britain are really all that different. Sure, there are some things like accents and school systems and such...

I meant culturally different. And I guess you didn't catch the exaggeration either. I know America and Britan are similar, but still, there is a lot of difference between the two areas.

Oh yeah,

Quote...And Europe has much better music...

Are you saying you don't like country music?

Quote...And Europe has much better music...

Are you saying you don't like country music?

Quote

Well, I'm not the biggest fan anymore; it's been ruined for me, sadly. Pesudo-Country is taking over, when they discuss nothing and only act country when there isn't a bit of anything in their music. Well, and I'm just a bigger fan of Euro-pop and similar music.

Back on the subject of America... hm... well, I don't like our foods or music. I mean, I do like some American foods (throw a deep dish pizza pie at me and I'll eat it in a few minutes...) and music, but for the most part, it's pretty lame. Hot dogs are compressed tubes of meat slathered in mustard and ketchup and things...

Well, I guess I do eat some pretty peculiar foods from other countries myself, so... eh.

Las Vegas is a perfect stereotype for our country, in my opinion. Whores, gambling, killing, adult movie theatres... it's all due to the wonderous laws of this country that allows such things. And no, I'm not being sarcastic; people should be allowed to do what they want, as long as it's not directly conflicting with someone else's rights for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Oh sorry, I though NHS stood for the same thing in America.
No, it's not National Honor System, I don't even know what one of those is.
Here NHS means National Health Service.
Our hospital waiting lists are really congested for things like transplants and not enough people have donor cards.

English food is OK, Fish and Chips woo!
And American food is nice, I like my odd burger, but doesn't really compare to Japnese/Chinese/Indian/Italian which are all awesomely yumshk.

I can't stand Euro-Pop though, I mean I know GB always loses the Eurovision song contest but some of it is awful. I don't know if they air Eurovision in Ameica but god is  it awful.

As soon as I get a job/EMA (you get £30 a week for going to school when you are 16-18) in the 6th form, I am putting away half the money each week to finance an all expenses paid trip to Japan.

Quote from: Shikamaru Nara on July 10, 2007, 11:39:46 AM
Here's the thing. I agree that there are a lot of problems in America. I complain about it a lot. However, I have to think, would it be any better if I lived anywhere else? At least in America I have freedom, I never go hungry, don't have to worry about being killed, and live a comfortable life. I think it has problems, but I also think it's about as good as it gets.

I don't know, France is lookin pretty nice right about now.

QuoteBack on the subject of America... hm... well, I don't like our foods or music. I mean, I do like some American foods (throw a deep dish pizza pie at me and I'll eat it in a few minutes...) and music, but for the most part, it's pretty lame. Hot dogs are compressed tubes of meat slathered in mustard and ketchup and things...

Agreed. Also, CHICAGO STYLE PIZZA FOR THE WIN!
Actually CHICAGO IN GENERAL FOR THE WIN. The windy city has its down sides(like the richy-rich North side, cubs fans*mumble*), but its still awesome.

Personally, think that there is no comparison to American food! Who doesn't love hot dogs at the ballpark, or a thick juicy steak, or pizza(the Italians may have invented it, but Americans perfected it)!

And that, kids, is why there is an obesity epidemic in the United States! (http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Commodore_Axilon/Forum%20Crap/teacher.gif)

No kidding. Italian pizza is actually way different than American pizza, and much healthier.

*raises hand meekly*

Alright, except for the pizza part. A lot of it makes me want to gag. Those Juicy Steaks? That Fried Chicken? *GAG!* Believe me, there are PLENTY of other tasty things. Chinese for one, mexican for another. American cooking just lacks... TASTE.

And I love garlic, it's a beauitufl herb that gets a bad rap for almost no reason. Garlics good for you, darnit. It's from the same family as *SHOCKER!* Onions.

Liver is also a very poor choice for a dinner.

Yeah, Garlic is good, just gets a bad rep for the whole 'garlic breath' thing. American food isn't more unhealthy than Chinese and Japanese, really.

Quote from: JQ Pickwick on July 11, 2007, 02:46:07 PM
Liver is also a very poor choice for a dinner.

That's becuase there is almost no one on this Earth who actually likes it.

And, on the obesity issue, I agree that America does have a problem with that. I'm glad that I can still eat all that stuff I mention bacuase of two factors: my metabolism takes care of most of it, and also I exercise every day, so I'm good. But obesity is being called the new cigarette, like how most people died last decade becuase they smoked, now they're dying 'cuase their fat.

Italians didn't invent pizza. The Chinese did.

I like liver, k thanks. And garlic. AND Chicago.

Good ol' American food! (http://salmonella.co.uk/chicken-mcnugget.jpg) (that picture might be... disturbing to some people, I guess.)

Quote from: Fisk on July 11, 2007, 05:04:02 PM
Italians didn't invent pizza. The Chinese did.

You're the only person I know of besides me who knows that. I think Marco Polo brought the recipe back to Italy after he traveled to Asia.

Quote from: Fisk on July 11, 2007, 05:04:02 PMGood ol' American food! (http://salmonella.co.uk/chicken-mcnugget.jpg) (that picture might be... disturbing to some people, I guess.)

That's just... strange. Although I suppose it's not as bad as finding a finger in your chili...

The whole 'finger-in-chili' thing was fake. She actually planted it there.

And where's your proof for the chinese pizza?

All I know was that a man on TV who owned a pizza shop was talking about how pizza came from China.

American food has no taste, it's all the same to me, but I still do like it ocasionally.
Whenever I go to Canterbury with my friends I get mad because they all want to go to Mc Donalds and I want to go to Wagamama.
Italian pizza is WAY nicer than American pizza, especially if you actually get it from Italy, I've never had Chinese pizza though...

I agree. I don't like McDonald's much at all. I'd like to try Japanese food. Like sushi (without fish cuz I hate fish), Sukiyaki, and even Takoyaki (even if it's made from octopus)

I've never really been a fan of fast food, especially after I watched Supersize Me.

Also, today I tried some chinese food. I have never liked it until now, and I must admit it is quite good.

I just love how this turned from a heated debate on politics to a nice chat about fast food, so cute, I'm not complaining.

I only like Chinese food from Restaurants or Supermarkets, take-out chinese is usually disgusting.
Japanese is my favourite though, I don't like fish so I cant eat sashimi but i love Sushi and Teriyaki. And Noodles and Ramen.

I watched Supersize Me, that poor guy. I dont see how he could stomache it all for that long.

Quote from: Vaati on July 12, 2007, 07:02:42 AM
I agree. I don't like McDonald's much at all. I'd like to try Japanese food. Like sushi (without fish cuz I hate fish), Sukiyaki, and even Takoyaki (even if it's made from octopus)

you know sushi is raw fish right? all else there is in it is seaweed and rice

and if you want some good japanese food, try some calamari, it is awesome

i am going to have to mention that we are starting to drift away from the topic though

Wrong!!

Sorry but Sushi is basically anything with Sushi rice (There are restrictions though). I <3 pork and pickled plum sushi.

Sashimi is raw fish/raw fish sushi.

It is one of the many Japanese food myths.

Really people, unless you're going to compare it to American food, it's off topic.

i stand corrected...

i enjoy seafood, exspecially the popcorn shrimp platter at red lobster, expensive but tasty

You know that Chinese food you find in restaraunts? that's not true chinese food, rather it's a hybrid that comes from the creativity of Chinese americans in making chinese cuisine with a few more common american substitutes. But for the most part, it's pretty much authentic chinese... to a degree.

Quote from: Dr. Rabies on July 13, 2007, 06:25:30 AM

Quote from: Vaati on July 12, 2007, 07:02:42 AM
I agree. I don't like McDonald's much at all. I'd like to try Japanese food. Like sushi (without fish cuz I hate fish), Sukiyaki, and even Takoyaki (even if it's made from octopus)

you know sushi is raw fish right? all else there is in it is seaweed and rice

and if you want some good japanese food, try some calamari, it is awesome

i am going to have to mention that we are starting to drift away from the topic though

Um, yeah. I know what sushi is...But I get sick from eating fish. There is sushi that replaces the fish with meat.

Anyway back ontopic.

Quote from: JQ Pickwick on July 11, 2007, 02:46:07 PM
*raises hand meekly*

Alright, except for the pizza part. A lot of it makes me want to gag. Those Juicy Steaks? That Fried Chicken? *GAG!* Believe me, there are PLENTY of other tasty things. Chinese for one, mexican for another. American cooking just lacks... TASTE.

And I love garlic, it's a beauitufl herb that gets a bad rap for almost no reason. Garlics good for you, darnit. It's from the same family as *SHOCKER!* Onions.

Liver is also a very poor choice for a dinner.

I'd just like to comment on this...

American food is kinda ftl, guys, itsd really unhealthy.

ITALIAN food is ftw, its uber super tasty and GARLIC, as JQ said, is really healthy for you. So when my Italian body lives to 150 cause of al the damned garlic I eat, you'll all see... ;D

Japan would be a cool place to live, but it's expensive and crowded sooo...I like Illinois fine.  :) Plus I have a lot of friends there.
But I agree more with Canada's view on wars. I was watching Bowling for Columbine at my dad's house this weekend, and Michael Moore asked some common Canadian teenagers why they thought America had so many gun killings. They said that in wars, America just attacks, but Canada is more negotiating.
That's something about America I think they need to change. Don't get me wrong, I love my country, but sometimes I think American government can be kind of like...babies when something comes around. No more fighting, just negotiate! Work it out, that's what I do with my friends when they're bothering me.

Kid may have a point there... then again, its kind ahard to get anything done with the current Administration and the current Congress.... it's like a convention of morons, really... :-*

That's because all it really takes to win nowadays is money..

We in America call that "politics."