Why is everyone obssesed with Naruto!?!? I think it's stupid!!!
I second this totally pointless hate thread.
Naruto does suck.
Even though I'm not a huge fan of Naruto, I must say that this topic is a little immature, there are calmer ways of displaying your disapproval of a show than:
QuoteWhy is everyone obssesed with Naruto!?!? I think it's stupid!!!
Quid Quo Pro.
Yes. Thief has a point. There are more mature ways to discuss your hatred for Naruto.
Yes, that's true, Naruto is stupid. But, I like Naruto!! :D
I've said this before, and I'll say it all over again. A lot of people would have liked it, if so many people weren't obsessed with it. Its the noobs that give us fans a bad name. I'm not obsessed, I'm just so pulled in by it that I have to know whats going to happen next. I've learned a lot from watching it(Japanese phrases, Gestures, Symbols, lessons, etc.) and it has a great storyline. Most people see the Naruto noobs, and decide that they'll forever hate it because of that reason.
Kairi, I have to ask, have you given it a chance? You might just find that you like it if you stick with it long enough. I read the manga in Shonen Jump before it reached America, and thats probably what made it so cool. There are total fan-geeks, and then there are the readers and viewers. Please understand that you're accomplishing nothing by making a thread like this. Did you expect to wipe us out, or did you see so many Naruto fans here that you decided to attack the show just to see what kind of uproar you could create? Well, I value your opinion, and I assure you, you're not alone on where you stand.
Its just that you could have voiced your opinion in a more dignified manner.
QuoteWhy is everyone obssesed with Naruto!?!? I think it's stupid!!!
Now understand that this is the kind of crap we see all the time. I would have been truly impressed if you would have actually given us the reasons you hated it. It would have definitely shaved about a paragraph or two off of this post of mine.
I'm guessing no one got my joke, un...?
Yoku yatta, Sasori-donno!! Again with the words of wisdom!! *Claps*
Tonikaku, Sasori-donno has a point, un. I didn't like Naruto at first, but I never gave it a chance. I watched the first ep., and now I like it. ^^
What about those people who don't bother watching it at all because it doesn't interest them in the slightest? As far as I can tell it's nothing more than Dragon Ball Z version 2.0; only instead of ki they have..."chakra," I believe it's called?
lol supor ninjas lol
Quote from: Commodore Schrute on September 19, 2007, 05:58:55 PM
What about those people who don't bother watching it at all because it doesn't interest them in the slightest? As far as I can tell it's nothing more than Dragon Ball Z version 2.0; only instead of ki they have..."chakra," I believe it's called?
lol supor ninjas lol
That, AND they actually SHOW the fight scenes. In DragonBall Z they never showed good fight scenes. It was ALWAYS a test of power(never tactical fights) and in DBZ, when they DID show a fight, it was real fast(too quick for the human eye, as they explained it). That annoyed the piss outta me.
In my honest opinion, if a 10-year old girl has taste enough to know that Naruto sucks, then she wins this thread.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII'm just not gonna visit this topic anymore :P
Quote from: Sasori no Akasuna on September 19, 2007, 06:42:47 PM
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII'm just not gonna visit this topic anymore :P
Lol ditto. *Dittos.*
Still, she hasn't said a thing since she was was showed up by us.
This annoys me. We see people like this on HA2 a lot...not Naruto-haters, but people who don't explain their opinions at all, but just shout it out. I couldn't care less if you like Naruto or not, but when you come in and shout that I shouldn't like it, that's just wrong. Sorry, but it is.
I shall not dignify the crappiness that is Naruto with a response/analysis, doing so would make the brain violently implode on itself. I mean, if something goes to the point where an otherwise intelligent person can't describe its terror, then it must be pretty bad.
am i rite?
Quote from: Sasori no Akasuna on September 19, 2007, 05:37:00 PM
I've said this before, and I'll say it all over again. A lot of people would have liked it, if so many people weren't obsessed with it. Its the noobs that give us fans a bad name. I'm not obsessed, I'm just so pulled in by it that I have to know whats going to happen next. I've learned a lot from watching it(Japanese phrases, Gestures, Symbols, lessons, etc.) and it has a great storyline. Most people see the Naruto noobs, and decide that they'll forever hate it because of that reason.
Kairi, I have to ask, have you given it a chance? You might just find that you like it if you stick with it long enough. I read the manga in Shonen Jump before it reached America, and thats probably what made it so cool. There are total fan-geeks, and then there are the readers and viewers. Please understand that you're accomplishing nothing by making a thread like this. Did you expect to wipe us out, or did you see so many Naruto fans here that you decided to attack the show just to see what kind of uproar you could create? Well, I value your opinion, and I assure you, you're not alone on where you stand.
Its just that you could have voiced your opinion in a more dignified manner.
QuoteWhy is everyone obsessed with Naruto!?!? I think it's stupid!!!
Now understand that this is the kind of crap we see all the time. I would have been truly impressed if you would have actually given us the reasons you hated it. It would have definitely shaved about a paragraph or two off of this post of mine.
When I try to watch some on the internet I just it just doesn't tick, do you know what I mean?
And I actually read the first volume of Naruto, and I didn't find it appealing. So you can remove me and Kairi from the list of 'people that hate naruto without even having watched/read it'.
And furthers my point that Kairi actually has taste for proclaiming it as crap. :D
naruto is not that bad i mean the spinoff's are bad, i think you sould read the new naruto books not the old.
Quote from: Sarge on September 20, 2007, 07:22:24 AM
naruto is not that bad i mean the spinoff's are bad, i think you sould read the new naruto books not the old.
And thus, a paradox presents itself. Aren't the spinoffs new? And wouldn't the original be better? But alas, according to our dear Sarge, the old books should not be read, when they are in fact, the originals.
ture but i hate the spinoffs.
I think its safe to say that Naruto does suck and that Ghost in the shell is better.
HOORAY! SOMEONE AGREES WITH ZOIDBERG!
And besides, most of you kids won't think twice about stuff that's actually real, prefering the land of fairy ninjas and nonsense without applications in the real world.
Ghost in the Shell IS the world as it is becoming!
Argh this bugs me so much, I don't think any naruto fan on here has ever insulted GITS apart from whocares, yet you say everyone doesn't like it. I am a huge Naruto fan but I am still travelling 2 hours on train to go to London to see Innocence.
Dont judge people you don't know.
okey dokey, time for the doc's input
my personal view is that naruto is ok, i'd watch bleach over it any day, and i saw GITS a few times and it was ok too, but yet again i am a bleach fan so :P
and kairi, why are you just bringing this up now, we havent discussed naruto in quite awhile here
Quote from: JQ Pickwick on September 19, 2007, 09:45:15 PM
I shall not dignify the crappiness that is Naruto with a response/analysis, doing so would make the brain violently implode on itself. I mean, if something goes to the point where an otherwise intelligent person can't describe its terror, then it must be pretty bad.
am i rite?
Yeah...it's all about intelligence... ::)
JQ, personal judgment on whether something is bad or not is only
opinion, not fact. Fact cannot vary from person to person; it is what it is. Opinions
do vary from person to person. They can't be truly considered fact because they aren't supported universally--by everyone, by evidence.
Ergo, tastes about entertainment genres
aren't driven by intelligence. They're driven by interests. You neither have to be smart nor dumb to be interested in something that other people absolutely abhor.
Meh, she hardly ever visits us these days.
(And I said most people [IE: Whocares]. Not ALL people. Since obviously, whocares' opinoin matters so much more to everyone else, that EVERYONE just HAS to agree with him [/sarcasm]
Here here, I do agree that the kiddy show it is in the American version and the early story sucks (although, besides Bleach, I have yet to see any anime that matches up to the Japanese version), the series has become much more mature recently. The series skipped two and a half years to give the characters a chance to mature more(which extends even to Naruto himself).
You really shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, JQ (and for long series, this also extends to the first book of many). I have yet to see a manga or anime where I am completely interested in it by the first volume I read or episode I see except Bleach. Bleach is the best manga series ever.
I agree, Dragon Ball (Z and other series included) is just terrible. I watched fifty episodes and then decided never to watch it again. Ever.
I agree entirely with ZV. It's the complete and total noobs who drool over anything Naruto that give actual fans a bad name, DnA being an example of that (seriously, try reading Bleach or Shaman King, DnA, it's unhealthy to like only a single series). The same has happened for other series, too. What is Ghost in the Shell suddenly recieved a huge number of drool monkey fans like Naruto does? Would you hate it too?
And just so you know, I DO like realistic manga series. One of my favorite series in Case Closed, which has absolutely no fight scenes in it at all. The serious tone to it and the great characters are just a start to why it's great, and the constant number of adult and un-kiddy cases and details make it interesting. Another series I like is Hikaru no Go, which is based around the characters playing Go, and has no fight scenes and never will.
Quote from: MagmarFire on September 20, 2007, 01:32:43 PM
Quote from: JQ Pickwick on September 19, 2007, 09:45:15 PM
I shall not dignify the crappiness that is Naruto with a response/analysis, doing so would make the brain violently implode on itself. I mean, if something goes to the point where an otherwise intelligent person can't describe its terror, then it must be pretty bad.
am i rite?
Yeah...it's all about intelligence... ::)
JQ, personal judgment on whether something is bad or not is only opinion, not fact. Fact cannot vary from person to person; it is what it is. Opinions do vary from person to person. They can't be truly considered fact because they aren't supported universally--by everyone, by evidence.
Ergo, tastes about entertainment genres aren't driven by intelligence. They're driven by interests. You neither have to be smart nor dumb to be interested in something that other people absolutely abhor.
What I was trying to imply here was not intelligence, but that people would rather explain their reasoning if it's just that bad, it simply defies explanation, intelligence or no.
Speaking of which, I am not obligated to repeat myself and opinions as posed in previous threads about the discourse that is Naruto.
And what is the difference between the naruto-like media and the serious media? The Serious media is not likely to have hoards of silly monkey-fanbois everywhere. It's content that actually makes you think. There are loads of animes that I've seen that take things very seriously, rather than take things with excitement espionages and character stereotypes. People should be allowed to go outside of the proverbial mainstream box every once in a while.
Still JQ, you have to admit that just becuase you don't like a certain series, doesn't mean that everyone should share your view. Just like how you hate Gundam and I don't, you can hate Naruto, but that doesn't mean there aren't people who like it.
Quote from: JQ Pickwick on September 20, 2007, 04:08:01 PM
What I was trying to imply here was not intelligence, but that people would rather explain their reasoning if it's just that bad, it simply defies explanation, intelligence or no.
Speaking of which, I am not obligated to repeat myself and opinions as posed in previous threads about the discourse that is Naruto.
And what is the difference between the naruto-like media and the serious media? The Serious media is not likely to have hoards of silly monkey-fanbois everywhere. It's content that actually makes you think. There are loads of animes that I've seen that take things very seriously, rather than take things with excitement espionages and character stereotypes. People should be allowed to go outside of the proverbial mainstream box every once in a while.
Erm, HOW, exactly, does it "defy explanation"? I don't see how an explanation can be challenged to disprove one's opinions on the matter.
I'm neutral to Gundam. I have had a personal vendetta against Naruto for a long time.
Okay then, here be my explanation.
Naruto lacks substance.
Of course, everything is subjective. So to end something that would otherwise go on without an end, I'll just say that it's crap and leave it at that. I mean, the majority of Naruto fans here would respond with endless bombardment of how naruto is in fact, a positive experience, which would present even more subjectivity to the matter and go on and on, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.
SARCASM WUZ HERE! AND THERE! AND EVERYWHERE (including in the 'defied explanation' point) ABSURD!
QuoteNaruto lacks substance.
Where is this data coming from? JQ, its an opinion.
Also, Naruto was pretty bad until the end of the first season, in the battle with Zabuza.
I just have one question. Why do you care if we like Naruto? We have different tastes, that's all. That's like me saying Violinist's taste in music sucks because I don't like Classical. (Although I actually do, she's just one of the most distinctive here)
To each their own. Now stop hating people simply for liking a show.
I'm going to try to stay out of this, but there's one thing I would like to say:
It doesn't matter whether Naruto is good or bad or a dancing monkey for all I care. What bugs me is that Kairi (the topic creator in case you forgot) has started a topic that he(?) knew (or should've known) would upset people. Now, this wouldn't have been a problem if he had given a thorough explanation for his opinion, but all he said was "Naruto is stupid". Now, there are two things he could have been aiming for:
1. He actually meant what he said and wanted the info he asked for/to have a discussion on Naruto's qualities or lack thereof. In that case, he commited one of the cardinal sins of discussions. If you have an opinion you have to explain it! Especially if it's (slightly) controversial. I'm fed up with people that don't do that, no matter whether I agree or disagree with their opinion. It's an egocentrical habit that too many people have these days.
2. He tried to cause a "fight". In that case, people, he's now having the time of his life because he succeeded.
She is but 11 years old, and it's doubtful that she would've realized that making this topic would cause this. But you can't really have an 11 year old explain to the depths of why she doesn't like Naruto - she simply can't, but the proof of her opinion is that she watched it, and didn't find it interesting, and thus finds it perplexing that its popular. In other words, it's sort of become the Yu-gi-oh of now.
Everything I say is subjective, this thread has become a parody of itself, and every post I make is labeled with burning sarcasm. And though I may say one thing, there's no real point in continuing any arguments, because obviously, the people that DO like Naruto will present their case in the same way, again on subjective points and standards that would just go on forever... something that's going on right now. Naruto Just isn't something that I would watch, or have the time to. There are better things out there, and Naruto has reached the point of a religious cult where whenever someone speaks out against it, it's BURN HER! [/insanity]
So naruto really doesn't have a point sufficient that I should watch it, any atttempts to redeem it would go with the argument of 'watch it and you'll likie it', but I really am NOT the person to just go with some random thing, bored and watch anything that's on TV.
I've read the first volume, and some of you are saying that I'm missing the good things because the good things occur later on. But here's the flaw in the argument: Shouldn't everyone start from the beginning, rather than jump in at any random point? If I did the latter, then I would miss the point of the story being so late in the series... Because I have no interest in continuing the thing, there simply is no point in telling me to jump forward and watch/read it for the exciting parts, because since I don't show an interest in the series (and am adamant about not watching/reading it)... it's just silly how everything is that people will follow anything that gains popularity almost mindlessly. I just choose not to follow the mindlessness that continues the trend of oversized anime that uses tactics to extend itself for extending's sake. And thus I have the point that per episode, Naruto really doesn't have the quality of other animes that I've seen that are shorter and aren't controlled by producers that use the popularity of manga to make off with anime that just... becomes superficial.
I'm not going to argue for or against Naruto here. It's a trivial fight that doesn't need fought. I doubt any opinions are going to change in this topic.
For the last time, JQ, all you've ever said was opinions, you have yet to provide proof that Naruto is bad, because there isn't any, only opinions on why you think it's bad. The same is with why people think it's good.
And eleven years olds can tell you why they hate or like something. Violinist has the maturity and intelligence of someone in 9th Grade and is only 10, yet she is perfectly capable of telling you why she dislikes or likes something.
Also, JQ, I'm beginning to get sick of you going around TDC and basically going "I hate Naruto", and for the most part you've simply done it just to contradict us. I suggest you stop, as, should I see any more of it, I wouldn't be against reporting you to Gamefreak.
Wow, this thread has started what can only be described as an intellectual, polite flame war. ;)
Quite ironic, isn't it, Tacheon? :P
Quote from: Whocares on September 21, 2007, 03:39:46 PM
Also, JQ, I'm beginning to get sick of you going around TDC and basically going "I hate Naruto", and for the most part you've simply done it just to contradict us.
That's a bit assumptive to say. There's nothing wrong with going against the current if he's not doing it for the sake of doing it--he's doing it because he simply doesn't like it. At least he gives reasons as to why he doesn't like it, however erroneously implying them as absolute truth instead of having them roam as mere opinions.
Part of the reason for that is because of how divided we are about Naruto. I really urge you all to stop arguing over whether it sucks or it's the best series ever or whatever, and instead to realize that other people have different opinions.
Arguing is fine if and only if the status quo isn't about to explode. If there isn't flaming or usages of condescending language, then it's perfectly acceptable.
I'm a bit late. Allow me to weigh in here.
I agree 100% with JQ and his opinion. I have watched some of the Naruto anime and I read volume one of the Manga. It... it lacks substance and any quality. It's like one gigantic cliche. I dont really care how much developement goes on via character. It's a cliche anime and a cliche manga and it disgraces the general entertainment value of Japanese style animation and artwork. I really can't stand any aspect of it. It's just....
In short, watching Naruto is a waste of brain space, a waste of time, and it really disgusts me that it's so popular.
Watching Naruto is like watching grass grow and it leaves you with an empty feeling afterwards. Same goes for the Manga.
Quote from: Whocares on September 21, 2007, 03:39:46 PM
For the last time, JQ, all you've ever said was opinions, you have yet to provide proof that Naruto is bad, because there isn't any, only opinions on why you think it's bad. The same is with why people think it's good.
Isn't that the point of this thread? Giving your opinions? What you said didn't even make any sense. Are you trying to say that proof can't be given for why it's subjectively bad, or that anything cannot be proven for being subjectively bad? The proof is in the actual experience of the thing, like it or not, that's proof enough for anyone not to watch it.
QuoteAnd eleven years olds can tell you why they hate or like something. Violinist has the maturity and intelligence of someone in 9th Grade and is only 10, yet she is perfectly capable of telling you why she dislikes or likes something.
Did you ever stop to think that not ALL 11 year olds are super smart?
It's true. Many 11 year olds can't even count to 10. Trust me, I live in New York City.
Ah shaddup. I can count past ten!! One two three four five six seven eight nine ten... uh... what comes after ten? Oh yeah! Eleven!!
But seriously, I can count past ten...
Quote from: Deidara no Akatsuki on September 21, 2007, 08:10:29 PM
Ah shaddup. I can count past ten!! One two three four five six seven eight nine ten... uh... what comes after ten? Oh yeah! Eleven!!
But seriously, I can count past ten...
He said
many eleven-year-olds can't count past ten, not all of them.
I have to agree that I think Naruto is a crappy show and I hate it too. Mostly the reason because the Naruto fans seem to act like it's the best thing that's happened to anime since Astro Boy. When it's really not that great of a show. But there's no need to blast out like this, even though I can totally understand.
The logic of this topic is incredible.
There are lots of n00bs who think Link's name is Zelda, and give Zelda fans and Nintendo a bad name, do I hate Zelda though?
Naruto is an awesome show with a good amount of depth, sure it's not extremely complicated, if it was it would be much, much longer, and probably boring. As for cliches, saying something is cliche is a cliche, no matter how crazy that may sound. Because everything in popular culture is a cliche, because there is so much stuff! You can't not have several cliches in a tv show now! I don't know how many times people have said something is bad because it's a cliche, well, fantasy worlds and anime worlds themselves are cliches.
Thats just my twenty cents.
Both parts are not necessarily true. People simply don't try to look for other things. If they tried that, they'd discover that there's a whole world of unconventionalities.
Quoteif it was complicated it would be probably boring
Ouch. this is the kind of attitude that JQ is complaining about and part of why he can't enjoy shows such as Naruto.
Also, Fantasy worlds don't have to be cliché. Point is that no one has the brains and will to come up with new stuff, free from the indoctrinated minds that make up fantasy right now. Fantasy lost its fantasy a long time ago.
Well then we have different opinions of what is complicated. I think of complicated is as having a whole religion, political spats and manuevering, semi-evils, evil people that are evil but help out the main character, a clash of cultures, a clash within one of those cultures, too supporting charcters to easily keep track of, and like 9 demi-protaginists, evil organisations, the main protagonist going crazy, dead people walking, magic, old society of magical women that are so bent on tradition that they may screw the world because of it, a rebellion within said society, and trying to defeat an evil guy all at once.
What I was saying that what I call complicated wouldn't work at all for a tv show. By the way, whoever gets what book I was just talking about gets a cookie.
QuoteBoth parts are not necessarily true. People simply don't try to look for other things. If they tried that, they'd discover that there's a whole world of unconventionalities.
*coughdoitcough*
Quote1. He actually meant what he said and wanted the info he asked for/to have a discussion on Naruto's qualities or lack thereof. In that case, he commited one of the cardinal sins of discussions. If you have an opinion you have to explain it! Especially if it's (slightly) controversial. I'm fed up with people that don't do that, no matter whether I agree or disagree with their opinion. It's an egocentrical habit that too many people have these days.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I try to bring that up as much as possible.
I like Naruto, but not to the point to where I'd be labeled a "fanboy". It's good, the fights are good, and that's all I'm going to say.
Quote from: MagmarFire on September 21, 2007, 08:30:12 PM
Quote from: Deidara no Akatsuki on September 21, 2007, 08:10:29 PM
Ah shaddup. I can count past ten!! One two three four five six seven eight nine ten... uh... what comes after ten? Oh yeah! Eleven!!
But seriously, I can count past ten...
He said many eleven-year-olds can't count past ten, not all of them.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIII'm just REALLY not going to look at this anymore. :P
Quote from: Link on September 22, 2007, 11:38:49 AM
Well then we have different opinions of what is complicated. I think of complicated is as having a whole religion, political spats and manuevering, semi-evils, evil people that are evil but help out the main character, a clash of cultures, a clash within one of those cultures, too supporting charcters to easily keep track of, and like 9 demi-protaginists, evil organisations, the main protagonist going crazy, dead people walking, magic, old society of magical women that are so bent on tradition that they may screw the world because of it, a rebellion within said society, and trying to defeat an evil guy all at once.
What I was saying that what I call complicated wouldn't work at all for a tv show. By the way, whoever gets what book I was just talking about gets a cookie.
That's a
CONTRIVED plot. A 'complicated' plot doesn't have to have all that crap going on. "complicated" in another sense would be something that isn't easy to understand or requires some examination to grasp. But most people would go
'lolz! this sux!!11' (See whocares' first post in the 'least favorite manga thread') simply because they're not willing to do anything to have something keep their attention, they'd rather watch all this action, but there's nothing there.
If its contrived it's complicated. They aren't synonyms but it's near impossible not to have both. And a show doesn't need to be as complicated as you want to be enjoyable. And compared to most tv, Naruto is pretty darn complicated.
Quotethey're not willing to do anything to have something keep their attention, they'd rather watch all this action, but there's nothing there.
Stereotypical n00b. Really, there are n00bs for everything. But you know what? It's for a different age group than you JQ, not a different IQ group, in my experience most Naruto fans are intelligent 11-14 year olds.
Hmm... what I'm thinking is that, like some foods, Naruto is a bit of an acquired taste. It just might not be a show that you can just watch a few episodes of and think "I like this!" It seems to work that way for some people, but not all. Case in point, the fans of the show watched it and liked it at least somewhat at the beginning, and thus were interested enough to continue watching it; the people who "hate" the show were turned off by various aspects of it at the start, and thus have no desire to watch the show any further. I haven't watched much of the show myself, so I can't very well give my opinion, but I think that there is no right or wrong opinion to have on this show, because it's really just a matter of preference.
...
I can't believe it.
I really expected better from you guys. This is an argument that can never be won, because nobody is ever going to change their opinion. You know why? Because it's an opinion. This isn't the same as a political debate where you can look at facts and events and actually FIND proof.
JQ, it's not our fault.
Whocares, it's not his fault.
'Good' and 'Bad' are merely opinions, unable to be proven through facts or arguments. Maybe it's complicated to some people and not to others because they relate to the plot or understand it differently.
'Quality' is also an opinionated term. Quality to one person isn't quality to another. It depends on taste, and I honestly can't believe this has turned into an argument about who is wrong.
I'm utterly disappointed.
That's what I'm saying, there's no right or wrong opinion to have. It's all entirely up to the viewer.
Quote from: Shikamaru Nara on September 22, 2007, 02:11:09 PM
...
I can't believe it.
I really expected better from you guys. This is an argument that can never be won, because nobody is ever going to change their opinion. You know why? Because it's an opinion. This isn't the same as a political debate where you can look at facts and events and actually FIND proof.
JQ, it's not our fault.
Whocares, it's not his fault.
'Good' and 'Bad' are merely opinions, unable to be proven through facts or arguments. Maybe it's complicated to some people and not to others because they relate to the plot or understand it differently.
'Quality' is also an opinionated term. Quality to one person isn't quality to another. It depends on taste, and I honestly can't believe this has turned into an argument about who is wrong.
I'm utterly disappointed.
SHIKAMARU FOR PRESIDENT! :'D
Seriously, topic over.
Quote from: Shikamaru Nara on September 22, 2007, 02:11:09 PM
This is an argument that can never be won, because nobody is ever going to change their opinion. You know why? Because it's an opinion. This isn't the same as a political debate where you can look at facts and events and actually FIND proof.
. . .
'Good' and 'Bad' are merely opinions, unable to be proven through facts or arguments. Maybe it's complicated to some people and not to others because they relate to the plot or understand it differently.
'Quality' is also an opinionated term. Quality to one person isn't quality to another. It depends on taste, and I honestly can't believe this has turned into an argument about who is wrong.
Finally! Someone acknowledges what I said a few pages ago! :D
So please, why can't we just acknowledge the fact that some of us like Naruto and some don't? I can see where Naruto is lacking, and how it wouldn't appeal to the whole crowd. It's not because anyone has bad judgement, we just look for different things in a show. If anyone says that it's because one person looks for 'Quality' whereas one doesn't, then I'm done with this argument...
JQ, it takes two to fight, but one to stop the fight. If it isn't either one of you who stops it, then it'll be me. Any hostile continuation of this argument will result in a warning for insulting, as this is assaulting the person's opinion.
I hope it doesn't seem harsh, but this fight has been going on for months, creating strain between several members. This rule doesn't apply to JQ only, and the fact I like Naruto has nothing to do with it, I just feel it's my responsebility to end this before it gets any worse. I know I usually get yelled at every time I do anything modly, but I'm tired of it. If it would make everyone happy, I'll quit being a mod. I just hate seeing this fighting over such a trivial subject.
So if ANYONE makes any remark again about how Naruto is stupid and anyone who likes it has no taste/sense of quality, or vice versa, I count it as an insult. This warning especially not only to JQ and Whocares, who have done most of the arguing, but to ANYONE who decides to prolong this superflous argument. Find something meaningful to argue about if you need to blow off steam...
and in case anyone's wondering why this is a double post, JQ had a post between these saying it was whocares that was trying to convince him otherwise.
It looks like this topic may have to be locked because it could only get worse, and even under Shika's threat of warnings, it won't progress to a settlement.
I'm leaving it unlocked because I want to make sure we come to a mutual understanding.
Yay! Others are repeating what me and Maggy said! "This is only opinions", basically) ;D
Seriously, this has really gotten out of control. Not just the Naruto thing, but other members looking down on or arguing with others simply because they like something they don't, Naruto being one of the more notable examples. I, for one, am really sick of watching us fight over this like a bunch of spoiled brats. Basically:
OTHERS DON'T HAVE TO LIKE WHAT YOU LIKE AND HATE WHAT YOU DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!
That may seem a little harsh, but that was REALLY needed. Seriously, others have opinions that contradict yours, learn to deal with it.
Also, for the record, I really could care less whether or not anyone likes or dislikes Naruto, what gets me angry is how all around the forums people go "all whu lik/dislke nArUtO r n00bs!!!!1111" and not realizing that others do have opinions that differ their own, and for this causing unnecesary fights that can easily be avoided. I won't stand for it any longer, however. The next time I see someone basically go around like that, a mod or Gamefreak WILL be contacted. This goes for everyone, despite however nice or bad I get along with them.
This is a fight? How is this a fight? Are you basically telling us that expressing our opinions can lead to discipline? How does that even make sense?
If I see a warning given out because of this, I'm locking this topic and neutralizing the warning. It's a stupid thing to try to give out a warning for someone expressing their opinion. As a mod, I have a right to contest something if it goes against civility.
It's completely different in expressing your opinion and preaching it.
Preaching is a bit strong a word. I think all anyone has done in this topic was say what they felt and tried to convey it to others. I don't think anoyne was arguing or trying to "preach" at all.
Not to mention opinion this here is biased due to the large offense this might cause the many Naruto fans on TDC....
And it's different to express your opinion than try to force others to believe it to. And to not accept that others have different opinions and cause unnecessary arguments because of that. You and I aren't the only ones guilty for arguing, JQ, we've all been guilty of something. I'm merely deciding not to let it go by anymore. And also, when did I ever use the word "warning" in there? I choose my words carefully, I WILL contact a higher up, but did I ever mention a warning to be given?
Also, JQ, I think that only admins can single-handedly decide to neutralize a warning. If you or another mod want to neutralize a warning, contact Gamefreak and the other mods over the issue before single-handedly deciding to get rid of a warning.
I don't care if you express your opinions. It's when it devolves into 'Well, you have no taste.' or 'You can't comprehend complex storylines.' where it becomes insulting.
Shika used the word warning. Read posts carefully.
You're all taking this topic way too seriously. And besides this element of rhetoric, how can we resolve this 'peacefully'? People will continue to be obsessed with Naruto and others will continue to proclaim it as garbage.
Even with all the points on neutrality, there will continue to be fanboys who proclaim naruto as the best thing and people that are sick of the fanboys.
DO we really need THIS much Naruto in our lives? This topic began with Kairi stating her opinion and the Naruto people attacking her opinion because of the proclaimed lack of evidence, when there's no evidence to be had when it's all the nature of subjectivity.
We could all help neutralize it by ignoring it. ^^ I mean, that's what I did. Everyone has different opinions, yes, and of course people will attack others for their opinions. It's life. Everyone thinks they're right. Human Nature, you know?
Okay then... Should this topic be locked?
I'd say so, but it'd be nice to have a few other opinions before doing so~
I actually want to keep this open and see if a comprimise can be made with the "nArUtO scks!!!111" people and the "NARUTO IS THE BEST THING EVUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!111" people. If that seems to not be possible, then I'd support a merge, but let's see how tihs further runs its course.
How exactly do you plan on having this worked out?
The people here are smart, they can figure it out without someone else to guide them through it. If they can't solve this by themselves, then it's beyond hope to not give warnings out on this matter.
So we should give warnings to people for simply not being able to fix things? Yeah, THAT'LL make things better.
QuoteSo we should give warnings to people for simply not being able to fix things?
If said people don't listen to what's being told and continue to argue based on conflicting opinions, which essentially ensues if the entire thing is left unchecked. And it has ensued, according to what Shika said a few pages ago.
All we really need to do is have it so that it's all right if people express their opinion without confusing an opinion about a glarable quality as an absolute truth. That also goes for people giving reasons to back up their opinions than just saying, "OH NOEZ, SUCH AND SUCH IS TEH WURST TING EVUR!!!11!" Both cause things to eventually escalate to confrontations like what we're talking about now.
..... ::)
Have you REALLY been paying any attention here?!?!?!?! :o
We'd only give out warning if they were basically going around TDC preaching "Naruto sucks/rocks!" and causing unneccesary arguments, not for not being able to solve problems.
Preaching those opinions and creating unnecessary arguements are causing problems, are they not? In a way, abstinence from those actions is a means of fixing the problems linked to them. Pure and simple.
I couldn't care less if you stated your opinions. It's stuff like this that gets me.
Quoteit's just silly how everything is that people will follow anything that gains popularity almost mindlessly.
That's insulting anyone who likes Naruto. If it turns into an assault on someone's values or interests, that's not right.
Uhh... That wasn't necessarily attacking naruto, more along the lines of anything popular.
Just putting that out there.
People on TDC like things popular (clothes and air, for instance), so you're insulting their likes and opinions. Either way you put it, it is still viewed as insulting to anyone who likes anything popular, or anyone who likes Naruto (Even if you did mean that towards anything popular, you specifically meant it to describe Naruto most of all).
Rash generalizations, rude and foolish assumptions, mod battling... there is only one way to describe this.
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n225/darkphantomime/Forum%20Stuff/IncrediblyAwesomeThreadpic.jpg)
And yeah, I stretched the page, too.
*sighs*
If you perceive everything that a critical mind (Like oh say, LadyNintendo) as offensive, then there really isn't much in terms of growth here. People will always criticize something even if it's popular/unpopular and you like it or don't. They'll still criticize it, and not with a mean to attack everything you say, but because they believe that it can be degenerative over society.
So why not take the criticism as a learning experience? Giving people warnings everytime you're insulted/inflamed doesn't really work... which is why I don't think it's a good idea to do that for this thread.
If there were always a group of like-minded individuals, then there wouldn't really be any growth, just people that always agree. That's why it's important to stand up for your opinion without being afraid of being struck down because of threats.
Oh I'll give you a threat JQ. How bout you ZIP IT!!!! >:(
lol, Just kidding! ;D
but not really >:(
IIIIIIIIIIIII thought you weren't going to look at this thread anymore, Sasori-donno? XDD
That's kind of off topic Gaara...
Well, Sasori-donno's was too... yours was too. XDD
NARUTO RAWKS!!
...You're doing nothing to help your own case, you know. ;)
Seriously, JQ and others, simply get over the fact people like Naruto, and to those of you like DnA, simply get over the fact people hate it. And stop preaching all over whether you think Naruto sucks or "RAWKS!!", that counts as offensive, in some cases spam, and trolling (as you know there are those who both like and dislike Naruto here with large populations), and thus a warning can be given.
We're doing this for your own good, now either stop acting like whinny brats and GET. OVER. IT., or just end up getting warnings. We aren't going to take any more of this, despite whatever complaints you make over how this is "harsh and unjust". Deal with it. You were given the priveledge to politely solve this problem, but you took it as a chance to argue, so from now on you get no further priveledges in this case. Basically, you brought this on yourself.
Yes, my post may seem harsh, but it's true, you realy have gotten out of control.
Quote from: Whocares on September 25, 2007, 02:23:48 PM
Seriously, JQ and others, simply get over the fact people like Naruto, and to those of you like DnA, simply get over the fact people hate it. And stop preaching all over whether you think Naruto sucks or "RAWKS!!", that counts as offensive, in some cases spam, and trolling (as you know there are those who both like and dislike Naruto here with large populations), and thus a warning can be given.
We're doing this for your own good, now either stop acting like whinny brats and GET. OVER. IT., or just end up getting warnings. We aren't going to take any more of this, despite whatever complaints you make over how this is "harsh and unjust". Deal with it. You were given the priveledge to politely solve this problem, but you took it as a chance to argue, so from now on you get no further priveledges in this case.
Done. YOU get a warning for trolling this thread and acting immature at the moment that we were FINALLY settling down.
Topic Locked.