So people are finally starting to panic. Colony Collapse Disorder(CCD) is finally reaching people's attention. You might have already known that in 2006 some honeybees were going missing. Nobody payed too much attention to it, because it was small. But now, half of America's honeybee population is disappearing, and nobody knows why. This is where things get freaky.
1. Albert Einstein warned about the disappearance of the honeybee. He speculated that if not for the honeybee, the human race could die off in a matter of 4 years.
2. The Aztec calendar stops in 2012- four years from now.
3. In the bible, its said that a man would rise in the east, and he'd soon rise to the highest power. That man is supposedly Satan. The highest power in the world at this point is he who is at the helm of the most powerful country- America. Elections take place every 4 years. Hmmm...
This is pretty freaky stuff. Seriously. If you're actually wondering why we'd die from the disappearance of bees, here's why:
Honeybees are MAJOR pollinators, and are responsible for 1/3 of the worlds food. Plants die. Animals die. People begin to starve- and die. Couldn't we live off of sea-food? Well, thats a possibility yes. But we wouldn't get all the nutrients we need from Sea-food alone. Scientists are looking into the cause of dying bees. But it still remains a mystery.
Oh heck no!
Don't start scaring me with this crap!!
:( :( :(
I'm scared now.
Thanks alot.
I actually want the bees back. :(
Quote from: Zelda Veteran on July 25, 2008, 12:45:27 AM
Honeybees are MAJOR pollinators, and are responsible for 1/3 of the worlds food. Plants die. Animals die. People begin to starve- and die. Couldn't we live off of sea-food? Well, thats a possibility yes. But we wouldn't get all the nutrients we need from Sea-food alone. Scientists are looking into the cause of dying bees. But it still remains a mystery.
True, but let's look at this at an ecological standpoint. Why do you think the human population is growing at an exponential rate? It's because people have the idea that we need more food because we have more mouths to feed. This, in turn, leads to an increase in population, which further leads us to believe that we need to increase our food supply more, which increases the population again. The loop goes on.
If anything, this
could be a good thing. For the world, anyway. If there's less food, our population should help remain in check. Do I think that people will die? Unfortunately, I think it's highly possible, but I seriously do not it's going to be as cataclysmic as people are making it out to be. Einstein seemed to assume that if the honeybee dies out,
all of our food will go. Indeed, this would be bad, but I don't think this is the case. Heck, even if our food is reduced by only a slight amount and not to increase for awhile, more people are not necessarily going to die of starvation. In this situation, yes, after a few years, our population goes down, but it's not because the death rate has increased--it's because the birth rate has
decreased.
But hey, if humans do go kerplunk because of this...well, we better start changing our ways and start repenting to buy us more time. We've been on the path toward self-destruction since ten thousand years ago.
Forgive me if I missed some stuff or if I haven't been too clear.
You know what plants use pollen zv? Flowers, you know what flowers are good for? Nothing.
And the bible said that the person would ise in the east, have millions of followers, and escape some fatal illness, and america's in the west :D
Your ignorance of biology is truly staggering, doctor.
I think JDog's done something to you Dr. You seem to have an abundant supply of :D's in your posts now.
And JQ's right. Shame on you.
Actually, it's from my constant talking to gurlz on teh myspoce
And yeah, flowers give us oxygen, but so do trees and other non-flower based plants, so flowers aren't 100% neccessary, just plant more trees
It's not just flowers. Grains, Vegetables, Fruits, all that stuff requries polonization in order to grow. All vegetation. And do you know what will happen when we can't grow grains? Livestock will die. And if We can't food from livestock, plants, or grains? WE die.
and did you know most vegetables/fruits utilize flowrs?
Does rice require pollination?
Quote from: Zelda Veteran on July 25, 2008, 12:45:27 AM
3. In the bible, its said that a man would rise in the east, and he'd soon rise to the highest power. That man is supposedly Satan. The highest power in the world at this point is he who is at the helm of the most powerful country- America. Elections take place every 4 years. Hmmm...
:o Are you saying Satan will win the Election of 2012?! Also, could you point out where in the bible it says this? It's not that I don't believe you, I just want to read the original.
It may have been something stated by the vatican, not the bible itself, and the 2012 thing has nothing to do with the biblical part, zv just stated a bunch of facts that seem to fit together quite well
Four years from now, the Aztec calendar stops... Hm... What did Commodore say about this kind of thing before...?
These are all widely known fortellings of the apacoplypse, what i said was the fortelling of the antichrist. A little known fact is there are a lot of people out there that think the pope is the antichrist
And I've also heard by a certain interpretation that those who want to save the world are the Antichrist.
Quote from: Dr Rabies on July 25, 2008, 10:36:47 AM
These are all widely known fortellings of the apacoplypse, what i said was the fortelling of the antichrist. A little known fact is there are a lot of people out there that think the pope is the antichrist
Are you familar with the robot saying: DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!
Anyways, haven't you started arguments with teachers over the Catholic church?
they aren't a well known group, so it's a little known fact
And the arguement was over one person having literal powers, i've got no problem with the catholic church, but saying one man cannot lie when speaking about catholicism is just a tad too much
the reason the calender stops is because they didn't update it. if they were alive today, they would have updated the calendar.
And let's not forget that other things pollinate- the wind, bats, birds, people...
Yeah, like i said, zv just said a bunch of stuff that seem to fit well
Those are hardly 'facts' though.
Actually that's not true, they are all true facts, but they have nothing to do with each other at all
Stuff dealing with the antichrist/end of the world hardly qualify as 'facts' simply because they have yet to happen.
well, they have been stated in some holy document, and if you remember, a fact is something that can be proven true or false
Actually, a fact is more along the lines of something that is universally accepted to be true within a certain frame of reference or opinion. If it could be proven false, then it wouldn't be a fact, would it?
so if something's written in a book, it's true, and a fact?
if one were to say "it is stated that ___," then that would be a fact. however, I don't recall seeing that in this topic.
Quote from: Fisk on July 25, 2008, 02:08:52 PM
so if something's written in a book, it's true, and a fact?
if one were to say "it is stated that ___," then that would be a fact. however, I don't recall seeing that in this topic.
are you saying the bible isn't true?
The bible was originally written by a man, and has changed several times over the course of history.
It is not to be used as a single source; you are to back it up with other information. And since you can't back up something that hasn't happened yet, I am in fact saying that this "fact" of yours isn't a fact.
I myself am not saying the Bible's false, but it can be interpreted several ways and still hold true.
Quote from: MagmarFire on July 25, 2008, 10:34:36 AM
Four years from now, the Aztec calendar stops... Hm... What did Commodore say about this kind of thing before...?
Yay! Somebody remembers something I said before!
Ahem, first of all, it's the
Mayan calendar that mysteriously ends on December 21, 2012; the Aztec calendar is similar, though, so they very well could have had the same cycles and whatnot.
Second of all, it only ends because that was the end of that particular cycle on the calendar. The Mayans were very big on astronomy and predicted numerous things in their time; December 12, 2012 is the date that the Earth will move either above or below (can't remember which) the galactic plane of the Milky Way. Now, the Mayans were pretty religious and this would have been a big deal for them, but they in no way predicted
anything about the fate of the world. And, as Fisk said, if they were alive now they would be working on an entirely new cycle.
Quote from: Fisk on July 25, 2008, 02:14:17 PM
The bible was originally written by a man, and has changed several times over the course of history.
It is not to be used as a single source; you are to back it up with other information. And since you can't back up something that hasn't happened yet, I am in fact saying that this "fact" of yours isn't a fact.
well that's your belief, i believe that god's words are fact, yeah, the bible wasn't written by god, but the people who wrote it were inspired by god, so it's his words, and i believe it to be fact.
Joseph Smith is the true prophet of the Lord.
Proven fact.
Also, about the honeybee thing, it's only the domestic honeybees that are going missing, right? Or is it honeybees in general?
Sounds to me like it's honeybees in general. Otherwise, people probably wouldn't be making a big deal about it.
You can find actual documentaries about this on youtube.
Still, if vegetation starts to die, a few animals will die because what they normally eat is missing. If those few animals die, the animals that ate those animals will die, and the animals that ate those animals will die off, and what does our diet consist of? Veggies and animals. We'd have to resort to the chopsticks method, and soon the world would be fighting over food. That could very likely break out in a war, etc.
The trickle effect is a big one people. When something happens that seems small, big things start happening. And sorry Dani, didn't mean to scare you. My sister (who is your age) was also getting scared. Meh. I guess I'll just have to keep this out of the ears of the littl'uns.
you know who eats grain? cows, you know what animal eats cows? humans, and we don't need cows to live, grains and vegetables/fruit that use flowers, and even if they die, they can be replaced, we have vitamins, and edible plants, and meat
Honeybees aren't the only kind of bee that pollinate things, bees aren't the only kind of insect that pollinate things, insects aren't the only kind of animal that pollinate things, some plants don't even need animals to facilitate pollination.
Is there a source other than Einstein that says it would really be that bad without honeybees? You have to remember that, as smart as the man was, he wasn't a biologist.
This STILL hasn't gotten through to you, has it?
Even fruits and vegetables are at risk of this epidemic, don't you see? Our entire food supply is very closely linked to honeybees and pollenization. Also WE eat grains, they're a big part of our food supply (virtually all bread/pasta products)
Who's arguing that?
I'm just questioning whether all of humanity would be dead within four years if honeybees disappeared. We could easily adapt without honeybees. It would be tough, yes, but I don't think it would be a civilization shattering event.
Edit: And I see that you probably weren't replying to me. My point still stands, though.
Quote from: JQ Pickwick on July 25, 2008, 03:30:30 PM
This STILL hasn't gotten through to you, has it?
Even fruits and vegetables are at risk of this epidemic, don't you see? Our entire food supply is very closely linked to honeybees and pollenization. Also WE eat grains, they're a big part of our food supply (virtually all bread/pasta products)
and i've said, that's true because most fruits/vegetables utilize flowers!!!!!
and we don't need bread to live, we just need water and anything edible
*sigh*
Yes, other things pollinate. But do you honestly think that people would be panicking about this if what you're saying is true? Do you really believe that the scientists around the world haven't thought of what you just said? Maybe I should put it this way.
1/3 of the worlds food - 3/3 = 2/3.
When there isn't enough food to feed everyone, you'd think "Oh, well adapt duh!1". People are arrogant pigs who won't adapt. Sure, we can try. But by NO means will it be easy. Countries will want to keep all food they grow in THEIR country. A hypocritical country fulla fat people like the U.S.A. will try to get the world to share their food. China is having trouble feeding everyone as it is. They'll start to die. Nations will unite. War will break out for food, people will die.
TRICKLE EFFECT.
I can only hope that somehow, people are smarter and better natured within the next 4 years.
You still haven't given any kind of reputable source. Do you want me to just take your word for it?
Quote from: Zelda Veteran on July 25, 2008, 03:54:55 PMChina is having trouble feeding everyone as it is. They'll start to die.
DEAD WRONG.
Like I said before, if food goes down in a population, don't automatically assume it goes down because people die of starvation. And again, it's this mindset that's causing our population to increase. We have only a certain amount of food. More people come into the world. We go, "OMZVG, liek, wii dont have enuff food 4 people!11 wii need moar!!!1" That causes our population to rise AGAIN.
Rinse and repeat.Look, if we just keep the same amount of food we have now, masses of people aren't going to start dying of starvation. Our population's only going to cap at a certain point. It's not because people are dying of starvation; it's because people don't have as much
energy to reproduce.
Like, let's say we already have a cap on food. We decide to reduce it by just a little bit--like, say, only the equivalent of two beans from a diet. Doesn't sound like much, right? Well, it's not. Sure enough, though, after the course of a few years, our population's still going to go down.
Every time.
we are built to adapt zv, that's what the origin of species says
Woah, you're all over the radar Dr. First it's quoting the Bible and now it's quoting The Origin of Species.
Th origin of species i believe to be true to a point, the whole survival of the fittest thing, and adaptation, and maybe evolution, it's possible that while adam and eve were in the garden, evolution was taking place, but i still believe god created everything
Do you think it could be possible, thought, that God uses evolution as a tool for creation?
That was my point exactly
Works for me, I guess. :D
Depends on when exactly you think life started. If you take the Bible literally, then 6,000 years isn't enough time for evolution to do much of anything.
What was that quote from Jurassic Park?
"Life will find a way."
Humans are made to adapt-that is the sole reason we are here today. We have civilizations in deserts, in tundras, in cramped cities, and on islands.
You must realise that as a population, we will have to "even out" at some point, as we cannot simply keeping growing at our exponential rate.
This does mean that some people will die. It's not a big deal-if you've ever noticed, wolf packs and deer populations grow with each other-more deer, wolves make more babies. Less deer, some wolves die off, and the deer population bounces back.
The same could hold true with our honeybees and us, though I find it highly unlikely. As others have said, bees aren't the only thing to pollinate. Birds, bats, people, wind, water, animals...
We have to remember that pollination is also achieved trough humans. We learned in science that humans have done research involving the pollination in which they take pollen from one flower and can simply put it in another with successful results.
I may sound like an total you-know-what when I say this but, I agree with the fact that the human race could use some thinning. If the honey bee "pandemic" causes a huge loss of food that in turn causes death, unfortunately this may be necessary. And if you believe in God then maybe it's his way of telling us to stop "doing the do" for a while.
As with the calender, I agree with the idea/fact that if they were alive today it would have gone on.
Also, we could live of of fish, a great example is Japan. They dont completely live of of fish alone but a huge part of their economy profit, culture, and diet revolves around the sea.
And as disgusting as it may sound, there are always bugs. Discovery Chanel claims that if bugs were some of the only food left then we could go quite awhile living of of them.
Do you honestly, realistically think that humans can pollinate HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS, even TRILLIONS of plants on their own?
The reason Honeybees are so integral to the pollenization process is because they are the most efficient at the job.
Actually JQ, I do. Think about how desperate the human race will get once they learn that either we can do this, or die.
And it's not like we have to pollinate EVERY flower. Wind does its part, so do other natural things. We just would need to do our part in my opinion.
Also with honeybees you can have more random mating of plants so that increases the genetic variation of plant species.
Again, why rely solely on honeybees for this? Its been done by humans before.
And Genetic variation within a species is pretty damn important when we're talking about the survival of a given species.
Like previously stated, sacrifices may need to be made.
A new species of flower or the survival of 1/3 the human race.
I feel so ignored... :'(
Again, a reduction of one-third of the food supply does not mean that one-third of the human population will die of starvation. I cannot make this any clearer.
I know, I was actually just being overly dramatic ;)
Wow man, reading this thread is reminding me of The Happening.
Does no one else read what I say?
Almost every animal that touches the land has a part in pollination-that is, it isn't just bees or humans.
Hummingbirds pollinate, and they cross-pollinate like bees do. Hey, guess what? Bats eat nectar, too. They also cross pollinate.
Point is, we are not going to die, nor is a massive amount of the plant population going to die out.
Quote from: Iroh, Dragon of the West on July 26, 2008, 06:13:25 AM
Wow man, reading this thread is reminding me of The Happening.
Thats what I thought of when I read the part about the honeybees.
Let me put this in terms you can understand.
Bee's are the main pollinator. Its what they're known for. Picture the gaming industry without Nintendo. Nintendo just suddenly vanished for no known reason. Microsoft starts to realize that they can't possibly keep up with satisfying everyone. What happens next?
So I can't understand anything that's not in video game terms?
I understand what you're saying. But bees aren't the only thing that pollinate, and I highly doubt that them having a dip in their population is going to cause 1/3 of the world's food supply to go down.
And if 1/3 of the food supply goes down, then boy, that sure sucks, doesn't it? We only have 2/3 of the food now, we'll have to stop overeating and ration it out, or let some people starve.
It's cruel, but life has never been particularly fair.
Quote from: Fisk on July 26, 2008, 10:07:01 AM
So I can't understand anything that's not in video game terms?
I understand what you're saying. But bees aren't the only thing that pollinate, and I highly doubt that them having a dip in their population is going to cause 1/3 of the world's food supply to go down.
And if 1/3 of the food supply goes down, then boy, that sure sucks, doesn't it? We only have 2/3 of the food now, we'll have to stop overeating and ration it out, or let some people starve.
It's cruel, but life has never been particularly fair.
Amen.
While the loss of bees is still mysterious, and the many coincidences that you provide are weird. This new candidate Cravin Morehead sounds like the mysterious ruler that is coming to elections.
Oh god... Why even take that guy seriously?
He doesn't even hav a wiki.
Probably because no one knows much. All he said was he wanted to be president, and then bam. He's a candidate. POWERS OF SATIN.
Quote from: MajoraKirby on July 26, 2008, 12:22:03 PM
Probably because no one knows much. All he said was he wanted to be president, and then bam. He's a candidate. POWERS OF SATIN.
Yes, satin has wonderful texture... oh wait, you meant "Satan".
Heh.
SATIN?
THE HORRIBLE SHINE! IT SHOWS OFF EVERY WRINKLE!
Anyway, I don't understand what's going on with that. Honestly, you think people are going to pick someone they've never heard of over Obama, or McCain, who has experience?
*facepalm*
Yes, Satan. ;)
Tsch this is all over reacting.
In my opinion:
We're fine.
The bees are fine.
The human population doesn't need thinning out.
It's all just spin.
I agree, Alison/Alissa.
We can't know anything about the world, we've only been on it for a fraction of a fraction of the time that the Earth's been around (take that, creationists).
Quote from: Davy Jones on July 26, 2008, 01:01:17 PM
I agree, Alison/Alissa.
We can't know anything about the world, we've only been on it for a fraction of a fraction of the time that the Earth's been around (take that, creationists).
Yeah, people have told us a hundred times that the world will end and the population will be wiped out, if I believed every one I would be a wreck.
Neither of those are my name!
Try Alice.
Anyway, it is still a very mysterious circumstance. Could the Africanized honeybee be at fault?
Have we tried capturing a colony of honeybees and then watching them 24/7 until we get results?
I thikn it's a little more complicated than that. For one thing, it could be environmental, in which case capturing would prove nothing.
Not to mention, they're already 'captured'. There are beekeepers that help fertilize farmers fields for a living.
Quote from: JQ Pickwick on July 26, 2008, 01:36:33 PM
Try Alice.
(!) Now that is not cool. You
betrayed me.
Anyway I doubt there is anything humans could do if bees had a problem.
Trust me. If we humans have found a way to gradually destroy the world, we can find a way to reverse colony collapse disorder.
I agree with Mags on this one.
It's always easier to cut down a tree than wait 20 years for one to regrow.
What now?
Our progress so far has been to destroy the environment because it is the easier of two things. But we must work to a resolution to improve the environment. However we've still got a long way before it can be realized :\
Thank you for clearing that up.
Quote from: JQ Pickwick on July 26, 2008, 07:34:48 PM
Our progress so far has been to destroy the environment because it is the easier of two things. But we must work to a resolution to improve the environment. However we've still got a long way before it can be realized :\
Actually, I think it's more along the lines of our forgetting that we belong to the natural community and are bound by its laws no less than dragonflies, birds, and tigers are--and that we are also taking out our misery onto the world. We've forgotten/don't realize that what effects we have on the environment has the potential and end result to bite us on the backside.
As for the resolution, we just need to change our visions on the world. Sure, the Bible told the human race to increase in number and subdue the world, but (1) we already
increased in number, so we don't have to go any farther; and (2) we can subdue it without destroying it.