The Desert Colossus

As the first post in the idea's thread I think I've got a really top notch one. Make XP based on post length. Maybe word count / 10?

That's definitely an idea, but a problem would be finding a bulletin board system that counts words. Then we'd have "quotes" and things to worry about, which sometimes are quoting someone else's stuff, or (for example, Wyndisis' 'note' that we found in Saria) at other times are original text.

I guess it depends on the platform; if it's viable, I'd certainly be for the idea. ^^

Erm, a word counter is probably impossible, unless I find a really rare mod that can do such a thing.  :-\

Then one more or less viable way to do it would be to have a mod count or estimate (for huge posts) lines of text. With a proper mod-to-player ratio, experience could possibly be tallied by that method, though it's a bit of extra work for the admin/moddy types. But with a good 2-3 click system of covering every post, it could be doable.

Eh, yeah... it is a bit far fetched. Thoughts?

You have to have very dedicated mods, and they would probably only have certain areas to cover.

Like we could have 10 mods + Narrator, and give each mod a couple of areas to mod, because I couldn't imagine having 2 or 3 people being able to do it. 5 mods would be for N. Hyrule, and 5 for S. Hyrule.

Mod 1- Ruto town- Pheonix Eyes
Mod 2- NCC- Dark Acolytes
Mod 3- Rauru- Canyon Crossroads
Mod 4- Mido town- Saria town
Mod 5- DMR Caves

Something like that, which wouldn't be too hard, but still challenging because it requires dedication from everyone.

I would be willing to do it, but we would need to have guidelines so we knew how much to give people, but anyway, I don't know that it's the greatest idea, but I would be willing to try.

Also, I think that grammar and maybe vocabulary should have some effect on xp gain.

My main concern is that alot happens while I'm at school. Sometimes I come back and there's 20 new posts in one thread. If I had to give xp to all of them, it would take a while.

So maybe it's a little far-fetched, but definately doable as long as our mods are fair and stuff.

So you guys are telling me you want xp to be a reward for good storytelling rather than base participation?

Yeah that's some thing I'd like to see. Too bad its not a simple as a word count...

I really don't care, as long as I can get xp I'll be happy. What do other people think?

An idea: What if for the first week or two, our characters could only travel through one of the halves? So we would choose either N/S Hyrule, and then(even if we did it ourselves) just travel and post on one side. Then at the one or two week limit, have something happen to get them together at the border, and then have both sides open to all.

Hm... well, for the exp ideas, if we wanted totally drastic changes in play, I've heard of systems for RPG's that don't use exp at all... but rather "skill tree" based advancement. Anyone heard of something like this? Not completely sure how they work, but I think that, per what Dylan mentioned, they could help newbies get right in the action rather than be useless for 500 posts.

Shiva's game beginning idea: Hey, I think that that's as good a way as any to begin HA2. One cool thing about that would be that character "roots" would be established in a very clean manner. I like the idea of having a big event of sorts a couple weeks into the game; I think that having a rough "timeline" of events would be beneficial for HA. I remember when I first joined, there would regularly be updates from the Colonel (or whoever) who would tell us about the happenings of the land, giving us more of a sense of time rather than a never-ending story (which HA1 sort of ended as, in my humble opinion).

I'm sure everyone know what I want to see in HA2 *cough* Potion Shops *cough*. Basically I want to see the same HA but with some modifications.

One of the things most discussed was the quests. In HA the quests usually involved hitting enemies until they fell down, because of this various ideas were put forward to make the quests more involving or more cerebral.

For example; Using the characters stats for more than one thing. Instead of the ATT just being used to determine hits in could be used as a gauge of strength. So there could be a block that needs to be moved to bridge a gap but in order to move the block they need to have a strength total of 100 or more.

Another example would be finding items during the quest, instead of an enemy only having keys or rupees how about finding a magic vial or heart.

Also another thing in would like to see would be unison attacks.So two wizards use fire, the attacks merge to form double-fire which does extra damage than two normal fire attacks.

One thing that I don't want HA2 to become is a stat-fest after reading through the Zelda D20 Soucebook I felt relieved at how simple HA is in comparison. D20 is very in depth (and I mean very). I mean Hylains have 7 racial traits and Deku scrubs have 11 also there are, at least, 20 pages deciated to spells.

Korind: I believe HA's ending was so neverending (ooh) because we had no plot-driven quests after the Peaktop quest. So HA 2 should be better timelined because of more quests.

About the skill-trees: That might be doable, but would it be based on a post or time based system? Another idea we could have would be the apprenticeship idea we had earlier, with you spending time with a "master" to learn new abilities.  

One question: Are we going to restart HA's timeline, and have new events in place of the Goriya's Cave? Or are we going to redo Goriya's Cave, and do the quests over again? Or are we just going to go from where we left off in HA? (That was a good one question, huh?)

Red: Potion shops would be cool, and our bottles would actually have a more important use than the occasional water or something.  

I don't know if I like unison attacks, but if I'm the only one against it, that's fine by me.

But I definately want to see more items in quests, because we never found anything but rupees and keys.

Lemme respond to the ideas as they've been posted.

(1) MG, I like the split idea so the characters can develop backgrounds first, but I don't think this will work unless the players regulate themselves and stick to one side of the map. Also, this would presume that both sides of the map are equally civilized, whereas with HA the south was wild and untamed, while the north was civilized.

(2) Weienw, I like your skill tree idea. How about this: when you first create a character you start with say, three points of some kind. Now, there'd be a large list of skills that you buy using these skill points. Example: Lockpicking (for use in dungeons), or Conditioning (+3 to STR, or something like that). Certain skills would have prerequisites, like you can't get "Goron Strength" (+12 to STR) without Conditioning I-III. And certain skills would be available to only certain classes. Then to get skill points you'd have to participate in certain events, accomplish certain mini-solo quests, etc. Then if you participate in a large World Event, like Ganon attacking North Castle, you'd get say three points. They wouldn't be too rare, but at the same time be a great indicator of the role you're playing in Hyrule. Thoughts?

(3) Red Fury, potion shops are definitely on my list. As is an expansive skill check system. And, I like your spell-mixing idea.

Now, i have a couple of questions for everyone:

(1) What kind of world so we want? I was thinking of using the same map, but changing the areas around a bit, and making a situation where there is civilization on the outer rims of Hyrule, but most of the interior, especially around Death Mountain is quarantined due to the strength of Ganon's forces.

(2) Storyline--would it be okay to make HA2 chronologically following HA? Say the situation of #1 is due to some catastrophic event and the Adventurers have to work their way around the quaratined zones to defeat Ganon's plots while returning to civilization to rest/buy stuff, etc.

(3) Classes--do we want more or less classes? How about a small number of classes that, using the skill point system, can shoot off in different directions from each other, so that no two members of a class are alike and almost are like different classes. Also, name the classes you'd like to see in HA2.

(4) Races--I'm thinking Hylians, Humans, Zora, Gorons, Rito, Deku Scrubs, Fairies, Shiekah, Gerudo. Any other suggestions are welcome, but I doubt we'll see an Subrosians (since they don't leave their underground world much), Tokay (sine they are socially inept), or Kokiri/Koroks (since they're kind of bound to helping the Great Deku Tree).

Overall, my main goal for HA2 is to make it much more of a "world" than HA was. I want large, more expansive towns that you can explore. I want it to take more than three clicks to cross half of Hyrule. Any other suggestions to this effect are welcome.

Because a fully automated game is impossible I'm going to need like 5 or so volunteers to help me out in the modding department. Remember how long it'd take me to have the mayor respond to someone showing a trophy? If I had five people watching that, it would make things much easier, and proceed much faster!

Finally, I need some help from you guys. If we have any talented artists among the players here, I will probably need some help in that area. I don't want to have to use the same map from HA, and I'd like to say have ten locations graphics (one for forests, mountains, hills, grassland, road, desert, tundra, etc.) and one drawing of each major town. I'd coordinate this task with the artist to make things easier. Basically, I'm not looking for full paintings or color drawings, but almost sketches of each locations, black and white, so its an abstract representation of what kind of area your character is in.

As always suggestions are appreciated! Hope this wasn't too much of a long read.  8)

An addendum to the skill points matter: because it may get to a point where someone would join and find out all the other players have 100 skill points, there would be a "handicap" of x number of points, so there is an opportunity for new players to catch up to a degree.

Responses:
1) I wouldn't mind regulating myself, and if others would do that too, I think that would work nicely. It would be more realistic, so anyone else willing to do that, or is it just a stupid crazy idea?

2) Also, maybe the skill points would be earned on a bi-weekly basis. Like 1 point/2 weeks, and then earn say... 3 per quest.

Questions:
1) Yeah, civilization would stay away from death mountain, and Ganon's forces. So that should work fine...

2) Sounds like a plan to me, and that allows people to recreate their characters if they so choose, or to create anew. Also, I agree that most shops should be away from battle zones, but maybe a few scrub shops near DMR would be a cool addition.

3) I would say combine the classes to what they do best, and have branching paths based on skill choices. So maybe mages would be the overarching magic class, but through skills, you could become a cleric, or a wizard, maybe you even get to choose what to name your character's class...

And we could have a warrior class, which would combine Soldiers and Barbarians, and a traveler class which could be Scribes, Ranger's and Rogues. But your character would have hand picked skills to make them different. It would be great.

That way in a person's sig, they could write:

Shiva(Name)
Goron(Race)
L9 Traveler(Class)
(Ranger)  (Sub-class name)

[or](I'm making this one up)

Pedro
Hylian
L4 Mage
(Necromancer)

4) The only people-race I can think of that we don't have is dwarves, the smiths from ALttP. Those aren't really anywhere else though, so probably not a good candidate. For and enemy-type guy, it would be cool if we could be a Lizalfos, or Dinolfos. Other than those, which aren't even really good choices, I can't think of any. My one concern is that if we still have racial skills, a few need to be changed. Gerudos(oes?) didn't have a racial ability, a Moblin's War Cry was useless if you wanted to be able to do any kind of damage. For the most part, the rest are good.

Other suggestions:
I think if you want a world-like feel, make it huge! And stuff needs to happen a lot. Even if it wasn't extremely big, as long as stuff's happening, it'll feel a lot bigger. For towns, make the forums like in Saria town compass clicks. So to get to the south end, you would click "South." Maybe even split those up a little, by which way you go, make it so you can explore the town, almost get lost, scratch that, so we can get lost! Not really, but you get the idea...

I think first choice for mods should be offered to those who've been with the site the longest. I think contribution to HA should also be taken into account. I would love to do it, but there's others who are better qualified to be a mod than me...

As for artists, I might be able to do some, but I don't know how I'd get it up. Also, I'm not the greatest artist, but I can try some stuff. If I get something worthy of being put up, I'll let you know...

And finally, a handicap would be good, get them started to be caught up, that way it's not like HA, with newbies having no chance to do anything at all in quests and stuff. Sounds good to me.

I can't wait!!! It's gonna be awesome!!!

Another thing I would like to see is a wider array of weaponry, so my question to people is what Zelda-esque weapons would you like to see?

Myself, I would love to see a ball-and-chains, possibly scimitars, axes, and maces, basically more freedom in weapons for people.

Maybe a weapon requesting system could be used. Where someone who wants a weapon currently unavailable could PM a mod and the mods get together and try to decide if it's viable, possible stats, abilities, or stuff to align with it.

Say I wanted a ball-and-chain, I could suggest it to a mod, and then they would decide if it was worth it(maybe if at least 3 people want one). Then they would get together, talk it over, and they would decide it's stats, like.

Ball-and-Chain - 20 DAM, -2 DEF, -2 SPD, range = 10 ft.

Maybe an unarmed fighting style could be instituted also, around our HQ I suggested it earlier kinda like this. Since weapons only control DMG, unarmed could be simple:

Warriors:
1.25 x L = DMG
1.25 x 5 = 6.25 ~ 6
1.25 x 9 = 11.25 ~ 11
Travelers:
1 x L = DMG
1 x 5 = 5
1 x 9 = 9
Mages:
.75 x L = DMG
.75 x 5 = 3.75 ~ 4
.75 x 9 = 6.75 ~ 7

See how while they don't do massive DMG(and they shouldn't), it represents the differences in strength between the classes. I think it's fairly well balanced(as long as PG's can't be used). Thoughts?

I like it.  I remember throwing out the idea of having certain skills or "careers" added to the game.  What if we could set up a system like that, where someone would have to do some kind of work to get to their "weapon making" position (in other words a mod)?

(It's making me cut up my post, haha) Part 1

Whew, this is the first breather that I've been able to net since my last post up there. Not sure how to organize my thoughts on everything, though... ahwell, here goes.

QuoteI'm sure everyone know what I want to see in HA2 *cough* Potion Shops *cough*.

I agree with Red that having potions would be really neat if balanced right, but I think our trouble is a system that will add/subtract a potion from inventory when the item is "consumed." Along that line I even more so like this idea:

QuoteAnother example would be finding items during the quest, instead of an enemy only having keys or rupees how about finding a magic vial or heart.

Which I think would be excellent... it would be just like the Zelda games, where hearts and magic vials explode out of the monster/pot/bush when killed/broken/cut. "Anyone want these 3 hearts (5 HP each) or the small magic vial (10 SPL)?" I think that feature could be installed pretty easily in quests... as long as we don't have too many hearts/vials so that no one ever dies (which is a problem with the REF--the indestrucibility factor).

Quote(1) MG, I like the split idea so the characters can develop backgrounds first, but I don't think this will work unless the players regulate themselves and stick to one side of the map. Also, this would presume that both sides of the map are equally civilized, whereas with HA the south was wild and untamed, while the north was civilized.

As I was in favor of this idea as well, I'd be glad to keep my character in one area of the world for a week or two; anyone who decided not to might just be more of a "roaming" type of person--couldn't hurt, right? And as for the north and south being more or less civilized, I guess that that would be a good way to figure out where your character would start. A self-sufficient barbarian, an information-hungry ranger, an hermetical (sp) herbalist, or just your average loner might be found in the untamed areas of the world, whereas you could find library-loving scribes, teachers of swordplay, rogues (who go where the people are ^_^), and other run-of-the-mill extroverts more commonly in the cities and villages. *shrug* makes sense to me :D

Quote(1) What kind of world so we want?

Quote(2) Storyline--would it be okay to make HA2 chronologically following HA?

I'm really open on these... either way, for any of them. Whatever world we come up with, it'll be great, and simply a whole new world, even if we overlap with HA1 or something. Also, I really don't
have too much say on Zelda tradition, seeing as my Zelda knowledge is limited to OOT (and there, I'm no encyclopedia).

Quote(4) Races--I'm thinking Hylians, Humans, Zora, Gorons, Rito, Deku Scrubs, Fairies, Shiekah, Gerudo.

Sounds good to me. The only obstacle would be how diversity might work... we have ~9 races, and if we have less than 9 active players, we're not tapping into the awesome potential of Zelda's ethnic range! ^_^ The trick would be balance and appeal; if some class doesn't seem to have much in it that anyone would be interested in (for example, Humans or Moblins or...?), we could just trim it off. But all in all it sounds great... the 'addition' of Rito, Deku-types, and Shiekah should be interesting.

QuoteAnother thing I would like to see is a wider array of weaponry, so my question to people is what Zelda-esque weapons would you like to see?

Weapons... a favorite topic. Well, I know that one thing that everyone tends to gravitate towards are weapons that induce stats. When you think about it, there are a good few weapons like this in Zelda (e.g. Deku nut for stun, hookshot for stun-like thing, explosives, etc), and all would be welcome additions. A large pallete (sp) is just fun, haha. It also leads to one feature in weapons that I particularly like, which is personalization. I personally really liked the feel of Korind being the only person in Hyrule with two Regal Blades, as it allowed me to write stuff like "a sillohuette of a figure steps quietly towards the group; his drawn blades shine with a blinding white sheen" or something, and everyone'd know who it was. Having a ton of different weapons (ranging from bows, to rangs, to throwing knives, to chain/rope based, to spear-like, to shorter melee [like swords] to unarmed) to choose from really (in my humble opinion) boosts character differentiation. The personality of someone who throws daggers is almost integrally different than someone who hefts a gleaming gold hammer on his left shoulder ('course, that's debatable).

Part 2

Sure, balance in weapon DMG rating and accompanying stat-inducers will be a factor in weapon choice, but perhaps skill choice will eventually make the old "whoever has the best weapon wins" mantra obsolete.

Which brings us to the skill/exp tree thoughts (you may have noticed that I've been avoiding it the entire time).

Quotewould it be based on a post or time based system? Another idea we could have would be the apprenticeship idea we had earlier...

I actually just kind of threw out the idea of a skill tree ambiguously, glad you guys managed to figure out some possibilities with it. And true, the apprenticeship/master based idea is still a good one... I don't completely remember how it'd work though, could you jog my memory? I wasn't sure what would happen after one would pick Power/Wisdom/Courage... ^^.

QuoteHow about this: when you first create a character you start with say, three points of some kind. ... Then to get skill points you'd have to participate in certain events, accomplish certain mini-solo quests, etc.

This is a great idea (not to mention that it spurs on some ideas of my own), notably it's ability to have a bunch of different possible character-types from possibly only 2 or 4 classes. One problem is that it does somewhat do away completely with the first couple ideas in this thread, with basing experience on post length (basically quality writing vs base participation, like Jack said). One can easily "participate" in every quest (and only the quests) when they come around and come up with an equally powerful creation as someone who spends a lot of time developing their character and trying to make the game fun to read.

Basing character progression on events or time (as in weeks, like MG's idea) may just be difficult to figure out (for example, how to gauge whether someone gets this month's "ration" of skill slots? How to define "active"--how to handle real life vacations, etc?) But if it could be worked out, the realistic factor of the idea sounds really awesome...

One thought for making really long posts count for more is allowing someone who's posting a huge post (like those more and more common page-long posts) to post their bit in halves or even thirds, giving them more bang for their buck.

But on the subject of classes (which I also 'skipped'), I think that it relates very strongly to the skill tree thing. If we had only a couple classes, like Jack and MG mentioned, the skill tree idea (with the classes shooting off in all different directions) could work rather nicely, I think. Here's for my potential possibility that is based very much on the City of Heroes MMORPG system that I've had a look at (anyone heard of it before?):

1) Choose a base class for your character (maybe melee fighter, ranged fighter, mage, and traveler).
2) Depending on your class chosen, you get to choose one primary and one secondary skill set from a group of skill sets that revolve around your class chosen (so for melee fighters, skill sets could be weapon-skill boosts [like "Sword Skill" or "Staff Skill"], defensive auras and armors, and specialized melee-type magical fighting. Something similiar for ranged fighters, and mages might have access to elemental, buff/debuff, healing, etc skills, where travelers would have things that would allow them to build a roguey/ranger/scribe type [lockpicking, back-stabbing, knife skill, advanced survey, wildlife taming, language mastery, enemy diagnosis]...)
3) Upon gaining level 1, the character would receive one skill from the primary set and one skill from the secondary set.

Tada. Now for the example:
1) Korind = mage
2) Primary = healing; secondary = mage's self defense (? haha)
3) Skill chosen from primary set = single person heal;
Skill chosen from secondary set = fists

At (maybe) every other level, the character would be able to pick another skill from one of the sets (levels 2,4,6 add a primary skill, 3,5,7 add a secondary?). At level 6, Korind might have 4 primary and 3 secondary skills (Prim: single person heal, status heal, defense buff, enemy health drain; Sec: fists, swordplay, dual swordplay).

One feature from the aforementioned City of Heroes that I found interesting was their addition of "specializations." Basically, one can "specialize" each skill in different ways when they get to certain levels, often with a cost of some sort. A healer could enhance the range, healing ability, or required SPL of a single-person heal by "slotting" their skills appropriately (maybe I'm getting a little too out there?). This would allow two healer-type builds to have rather different skills... Maybe this is where the apprentice/master idea could come in; 'studying' under a master would allow you to specialize/enhance your skills when appropriate?

Here's a quick link to what I'm sort of referring to:
http://www.cityofheroes.com/features/powers.html

Their game manual (click on Documentation > Game Manual to the left of the window) includes (as you might expect) a huge amount of information on how their skill slots and specializations work (warning, is a hefty file).

I guess all in all this is pretty much the same as some of the other ideas, just level based and with skill pools. I do think that making up a sub-class name would be cool though :D.

Oh, and Red, I think the spell-mixing idea would be cool, but I think the reason why MG (or anyone) would be more or less against it would be because of it's rare opportunity of usage... but against a boss that a ranger just figured out to be very sensitive to fire, two elemental mage-types throwing together a SPL efficient and yet very damaging fireball just might be the ticket to the survival of the whole group. Not your everyday spell, but a good one to keep in your wallet.

QuoteI would love to do it, but there's others who are better qualified to be a mod than me...

Come ON, Shiva! ^___^ He did say that we'll need around 5 people, haha. But same for me, if you need an extra mod, I'd be glad to help out. All right, time to click "Post..." Sorry about the length *grin*.

I was actually thinking about character development along different lines, so please tell me if it is a good idea.

You start off as one of four classes:

Scholar, Traveler, Vagabond, and Grunt.

Scholars through their early skill progression can choose to take up healing, elemental, or other magics. Each of these studies can lead to becoming a Cleric, Mage, etc.

Travelers take up music, or literature, allowing them to become bards or scribes.

Vagabonds take up crime, hunting, or naturalism, allowing them to become Rogues, Rangers, or Barbarians.

Grunts choose to follow order or chaos, allowing them to become Soldiers or Mercenaries.

What do you think of that? Obviously by "take up" I mean you dedicate you skill points towards a specific direction, and then accept a quest at a certain point, where you will officially become "X" class.

Lastly: should I remove the alignment feature? Maybe change it to "order, neutral, or chaos"?

Sounds great.  It's simple and realistic.  About removing the alignment feature:  I might like it.  Yeah, it would be cool as it would allow us to make our characters more ambigous.

My main question(before I make any decisions about it) would be:

QuoteScholars through their early skill progression can choose to take up healing, elemental, or other magics.

Does this mean they have to choose these if they are a scholar?

Basically I'm wondering how much freedom this system allows to develop a character beyind the normal limits of their initial class.

Here was what I was thinking should happen. Your class choice effects ONLY the stat progression of your character. After that you are basically free to take any skills you so choose. Of course, each class has it's own special abilities, but there are many that apply to all. That way, I could choose a Scholar(for high SPL gain), but turn them into a Paladin-like warrior. His high SPL gain would be useful, while I could still use my skill points to gain strength, to have a very balanced warrior.

Mainly, I would like enough freedom to make a decent fighter or mage out of any class. My only concern with your class system is this:

Say I choose a Vagabond, if I am restricted to Rogues, Rangers, or Barbarians, why not just make the choice at the start like in HA.

I see what you're trying to do, and there's nothing really wrong with that system. It might actually work pretty well. But like I said, if it restrict to the classes, I don't know how it'll be very different. Although I do like the "quest to become a class" idea. Very good thinking.

About removing/changing the alignment: I guess we could try it. Also, I wouldn't mind it being the order one, kinda removes the perfect-type feeling of being good. It didn't really play a role in HA, but if we wanted to factor it into how the world reacted to us, I think we should keep it.

I'm finally done, good thing I asked my question before making up my mind... ???  ;D  

I don't think I'd be comfortable with allowing massively hybrid classes that lack a central theme of what they are. Rather, I will design it so every class has access to basic forms of talents other classes would get. Like, a Soldier/Merc could take up minor spellcasting of some kind.

Just thought of a new question. With these new skills, would spells be gained through skills, or the spell system of HA? Or even better would be a combination of both.

Also, if we're doing classes like that, I think we'd better not utilize the Vagabond, Grunt, Traveler, Scholar idea. I don't think it'll do anything for the game by having it since we'll soon revert back to the normal classes anyway.

QuoteI will design it so every class has access to basic forms of talents other classes would get.

Ok, fine by me. If that's how you're gonna do it, I'm 100% behind you.  ;D

Also, I was wondering how arrows were going to be handled. Because in HA, it seemed as if they were a waste of money after the first pack. I think we should lower a group of arrows to ten, and have them keep track and buy more arrows when they are running low. Likewise with bombs(if we add them as another weapon choice), but I think bombs should come in 5's.

Another thing, I'm assuming only basic weapons(like DEKU from HA) will be available at the start, or will everything up to Gilded be buy-able...

I  was wondering would the skill sets just be for class. I'm thinking that the different races could get their own unique set of skills. So a Goron may have choices of Goron Punch - a powerful jab or Stone Defense - increase defense with the power of stone.

Although this may lead to making the game more complicated than it needs to be.

Hmm... actually, I think that Jack's "Scholar, Traveler, Vagabond, and Grunt" idea has at least one great advantage, which is a sort of flexibility. Initially, someone might choose Vagabond, and have a rouge-type in mind. Before they reached the quest where they would choose their class for sure, the Vagabond would put points in things like stealth and backstabs, only to decide they they wanted a ranger in the end. This could allow for an interesting mix between ranger and rogue, with previous rogue-skills mixed in with ranger characteristics.

I guess it depends mostly on the skill pools/trees/sets... like how they are arranged according to class.

So much to address...

Classes: I am against class/level based systems. It puts characters in a box. If I want to do a Crouching Tiger style character where does that fit? What about a Monk? Is that a scholar or a vagabond? Is he a unarmed fighter or a scribe? How about a Psyonic?
But!
If you Decide that you want classes, than me must look at the archetypical class source, D&D.
As a game designer I read a lot of stuff on this kind of thing. I remember an interview with a RPG designer who was working on an "alternate source book" for D&D and he said that classes come from three basic concepts, you have the Fighter Guy, The Magic Guy, and the Skillful Guy. The knight the wizard and the thief. All classes are generally a standard version of these, a combination of two of them, or an alternate vision of one. see below:
Fighter: Fighter guy
Barbarian: Alt. Fighter
Cleric: Magic/fighter
Monk: Skillful/fighter
Wizard: Magic guy
Sorcerer: Alt. Magic
Bard: Skillful/Magic
Rouge: Skillful guy
Ranger: Alt Skillful.
Now of course there are more alternates (Druid) And Ranger is closer to a fighter than a rouge but you see my point.
Now your basic four classes are pretty good, but I would combine the Traveler and Scholar classes. Both are learning based, one wanders, one stays stationary. Put all their skills in one big pile and combine or weed out those that overlap. I am always much more in favor of a few skills that are really unique rather than hundreds that cover every possible variant of every concept.
Instead of classes grouping the skills into three major trees:

Scholar, Troubadour, and Fighter.

Then allowing the characters to take skills from them as they see fit.(at a greater cost, ala Cross-class-skills from D20) would allow people to make much more unique characters. Is it possible to make a Heavy Metal Bard (lots of armor and power)? how about a magic thief? Could you create an Archer that could shoot magic arrows?

World/Story:
I am in favor of just placing it in Hyrule with no time placement. The Zelda games don't exactly flow with a single story. My personal idea is that there are hundreds of years between most of them (save LOZ, and AOL, and LA) Placing it in a "timeless" setting aloes the players and writers much more flexibility in what they draw from. For instance, Icabod's master; I mentioned once, just in passing, he was taught by some guy named Vaati. We were getting damn close to this kind of thing anyway. Lizafoes and Poes in AOL? ok... this would also allow for a general freedom of how the map was constructed.
Races: So many! Oh cool! Damn Cool! The only one I'm not sure about are the Sheika. Do we know enough about them to make them worth while? Are Races going to have abilities? How will these interact with the skills? Can Deku shoot nuts? is this ability powerful enough to negate a bow and arow? Could "class" Skills be combined with race skills? Could the Scholar's "infuse with element" ability be "cast" on a Deku's nuts (erm...) in the same way as on the fighters Kusarigama?

In the end I agree with Red. I don't want to see the game turned into a huge stack of rules. I loved the old HA's system for its simplicity. It might have been level and class based. It might have been created for mob grinding and not for stealth action or social intrigue. But it also didn't take for freaking ever to learn or play.  Maybe many of the conflicts I've set up can be simply fixed by role play and dedicated MODs. So a new player wants to be able to have a strange weapon or ability. talk to the MOD, have them help you balance and design your character. So you wanna play a spiky blonde-haired woman who shoots energy balls the size of my ego? Well that's a little too much. But we can make a system by which your character can charge up energy and use it for attacks and such...

Ps: I'm willing to MOD if your willing to have me. And I would like to controdict Shiva. The man has Mod Writen all over him. I can see it from here! in WYOMING!

Heres a map of old hyrule we could use. The creator (melora of Melorasworld.com) has their web site down for the moment but this might work if they will let us use it.
http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/fanq/m/e/melora/
melora_oldhyrule.jpg.html

Quote[Jack Half a Prayer]The only one I'm not sure about are the Sheika.

I guess that leaves more freedom and room for imagination.

I guess Jack(half) and I are in agreement here. I guess the reason I'm trying to find a more open-ended route, is because I don't want the classes to turn out the way they were. If we decide to use Jack's 4 class choosing system, in my opinion, all the skills are going to have to be something extraordinary to separate the members of that class. That's why I was thinking we should have slightly more freedom after choosing a class.

Okay, what if there was some sort of limit/penalty to prevent deviating too far from a class' origins?

Say 3 skill points(relative) per 2 levels gained.

That way you weren't totally free to do as you choose with your character, but were allowed enough freedom so they weren't carbon-copies of every other member of that class.

I would be in favor of keeping levels, more or less for statistical reasons. I believe we should keep the ATK, DEF, SPD, SPL, HP, DMG of HA. I thought it was a nice simple system, though it wasn't perfect. REF'ers definately needed more defense, and despite Shiva's well balanced-ness, I noticed a lot of characters weren't.

I am also trying to find a way to tie role-playing, level gain, and the skills into a nice simple package.

QuoteAnd I would like to controdict Shiva. The man has Mod Writen all over him. I can see it from here! in WYOMING!

and

QuoteCome ON, Shiva! ^___^ He did say that we'll need around 5 people, haha.

Haha... nice. That's a long ways. If you guys insist, but... anyway, maybe my guidelines for a mod are different or something. I tend to look at the quality of overall contribution, and in HA, I didn't really think I did that too well. In HA 2, it will be different though... *gives a HA happy evil-smiley type look*

Hey, that's a great map! I say we use that one, and I doubt that he/she will have any reason to not let us.

I'd prefer it instead of level, that we were allowed to choose a new ability from our chosen tree, or for the cost of 2 "levels" an ability not from your tree. Maybe for the cost of 3 "levels" you could up a stat by one point.

Perhaps we should have the Mod's control players stats and skills?

My concerns with the class system are this:

1. I don't want it to be so complicated we would drive away potential players.
2. I don't want it to include classes that would not exist in Hyrule (eg. Psyionics.).
3. I don't want to set classes up to the point where people have no defined class and are kind of aimless blobs of random stats.

I concede that it could make much more sense that we have three base classes: Scholar, Vagabond, Grunt. Then, through the application of skills you deviate from that base class to a more defined box. Also, it is possible to pick pieces from other classes (like a Bard that uses Heavy armor) but in doing so they would use up a lot of skill points that could have gone to making them more effective at "Barding."

And, there will be a level system, but it will not have much weight as in HA. Levels will not determine your stats, but for every level gained you will gain a skill point. Because you can gain skill points more from events and quests, your level does not necessarily equal your potential.

As for the map, I know Melora, and I have written consent from her to use her maps (that and the AoL one), so we are golden in that regard.  :)

Races will have unique abilities like before, but I want to give them all different ones. Also, certain races will have access to certain skills, allowing them to be better choices for certain classes. Hopefully this will cut down on the number of Hylians in the game. ;)

There's more to say, but its late, and my thought train has left the station. I'll type more in the morning.

We'll have to change the "level-ups" system then, since without a lot of quests, no one would have enough to buy any stats or anything.

If the skill points are used like that, how about earning points at these intervals:

1 x 100
1 x 200
1 x 300
1 x 400
1 x 500
1 x 700
1 x 800
1 x 900
1 x 1000
10 gained
1 x 1200
1 x 1400
1 x 1600
1 x 1800
1 x 2000
15 gained

This would be fine because we could also get 2 for good participation(like the peaktop quest, xp was awarded for good rp'ing) in a plot quest, and 1 for participation in other important matters. Also, I think bonus points should be earned for rp threads that are deemed "spectacular" or at least very high quality. That way, we'd get enough, and not too much. Thoughts?

Also, we could use a feature like RoH uses, they have their's set so xp is only gained on posts 50 words or longer. We just need to have our own rupee system, 'cause theirs is cheated easily.

Here's the flaw in their system: "When I set about to increase the rupees paid for lengthy quality posts, I knew eventually that someone would decide to step over the line. This happened... in a big way... to the tune of over a quarter million rupees in two posts. Apparently the entire novel "War and Peace" was entered... then the post edited and a two liner put back in it's place..."

So yeah... I say we keep the way rupees were in HA, and have people gain xp with every 50+ words post.

Quote3. I don't want to set classes up to the point where people have no defined class and are kind of aimless blobs of random stats.

That's why I propsed:

QuoteOkay, what if there was some sort of limit/penalty to prevent deviating too far from a class' origins?

Also, I think that some manner of weapons training should be a skill for other classes. What about soldiers that spend points into weapons training(they get basic to begin with) and gain more benefits, say L1 = double spears, something like that. And racial skills that increase abilities, so a moblin can war cry <30, a human learns an extra language, stuff like that. A goron might be able to learn an extra language, but it would cost me 3 sp instead of the 1 humans need.

So, Jack, any idea as to how stats are being done this time around?

Maybe some of the magic enhancements could be handled through skills, or maybe directly through churches. I like the church idea, though, so I guess I'd prefer that one. And possibly you would be limited to one...

QuoteHopefully this will cut down on the number of Hylians in the game.  ;)

Haha, as long as we retain a couple in the end. Scary how race/class nerfing works.

But one of the the things that's on my mind is the prospect of having to "buy" stats with skill points. The thought of having to choose either stat increase or a shiny new skill is kind of scary :D. I can see sleep lost over that one... but I guess a lot of it is just balance. Though, what would happen if someone poured everything into DEF and HP and maybe one skill, some magic shield or heal of sorts (thus effectively becoming a DMG black hole more or less)?

All in all, what are we going to be using skill points for in particular, besides 'learning new skills'? Depending on how many aspects of the game depended on skill points, having 15 (at 2K posts) plus however many for events (I'd guess 10 at the very least by 2000 posts?) could turn out to be a huge surplus... Effectively a good, unique character could be produced with ~5 skills and reasonable stats; rather, the problem arises when everyone has every skill (al a Wyndisis, Arthur, and Korind, with every scroll in the book). In my opinion, that is...

Thoughts on this? Buying stats, skill point "economy", role of skill points besides "buying" skills?

How I have stats working at the moment is as follows:

There are five stats in all;STRength, DEFense, AGIlity, INTelligence, and SPIrit. STR affects how much damage you do per physical attack, DEF affects how much damage you take (high DEF can mitigate damage) or if you are hit, AGI determiens your chance to hit and boosts your ability to avoid damage, INT determines how much damage your spells do and gives bonuses to skill checks, and SPI determines your total MP plus your resistances (more on that in the future).

Stats are determined by one's base class (rather than race). SCHOLARS are very INT/SPI focused, with some in AGI. VAGABONDS are AGI/INT focused with some in STR, and GRUNTS are STR/DEF focused with some in AGI.

FYI, I will henceforth be renaming skill points "talent points" and skills as "talents." (Less confusing with skill checks already existing).

Because your base stats are low, you gain a small bonus to one stat based on your race (to show that a race is better at certain classes). Then, as you play your base quest, you will do a series of "training" quests which will reward you with enough talent points to specialize based on what is initially available for your base class in the talent book*. One you are officially specialized as a certian class, you may then begin picking at talents that would belong to other base classes at a penalty of increase point cost. Or, you can muddle your class a bit with related classes within your base class "tree". That is, Rangers have an easier time using some Thief talents that they would using Mercenary talents.

THe amount of stat boosting talents will be limited to prevent someone from front-loading themselves with all stat boosters, and moreover, certain talents that don't boost stats will affect other parts of your character: like damage from spells/attacks or chance to hit.

Speaking of spells, rather than the old system of spells automatically hitting, there will be a resistance system where you have to check a spell against a target's resistances to certain elements much like a melee class would check against DEF.

Talents can also add cool new abilities to your character, like there will be talents to learn particular languages, talents to gain proficiency in lock-picking, trap-setting (or disarming), the use of Damage-over-time poisons for weapons (this might be limited to Vagabonds for rp purposes though), the ability to upgrade what kind of armor you can use**, learn new spells, and more.

And light MG suggested, I was planning on having talents be spendable on learning to use new weapons. This would be cheapest from Grunts, med cost for Vagabonds, and expensive for Scholars. The upside is, not all weapons will be balanced and some will do more power than others to make up for the talent cost.

I want talents to be able to diversify your character from others, so you can bring a ability to the table that someone else might not be able to.

Oh, and a less important notice, you probably will be able to "drop" talents for an amount of rupees so you can spend that point elsewhere. This way we have a good money sink in the economy.

I still need to work out the ratio for talent points to levels/posts, but I like MG's system, so it will probably be along those lines.

* Basically, once you hit level five you will be eligible to specialize. You must complete five training quests, each which will focus on a core ability of your base class. As you complete the quests you can five talent points, and yet none for levelling 1-5. As you gain those initial five talent points, you must make sure that all five go to the same "branch" of your base class "tree" that will lead to a specialized class. Because this is a pretty important decision, players will be able to reset these initial "purchases" at no cost. But, once they specialize, they are stuck.
** Armor types will be limited to base classes, That is, scholars can only use Light, Vagabonds Light or Med, and Grunts Heavy, Light or Med. But, a Scholar could give up X number of talent points to use Medium armor and X*2 number of talent points to use Heavy.

I have it so it's 15 tp at 2k because it took me nearly 6 months to get that many posts. So it's not like anyone's gaining those that fast, I think...

And that 15's relative, it all depends on how much stuff will cost. That was designed to compensate for having to spend 3 to get a stat boost.

I mean without quests, there's only a 6 point stat increase total, or 9 non-class talents.

I was thinking we could use a shining soul-like talent system. With multiple(I was thinking 2-3) levels for skills, i.e. For Shiva:

Ranger L1(standard)
Ranger L2 * (increases all increases by 2)
Ranger L3 * * (Takes 1 less turn for power)

Weapons Training L1 * * (Standard)

Heal Spell L1 * (Heals 25%, 15 SPL)
Heal L2 * * (Heals 25%, 10 SPL)

Spear training * (Able to use a spear)
Spear L2 * * (STR +3)

Leadership L1 * (+2 to parties stats, or something)

Stats: * * *(DEF +2) , * * *(HP +1, ATK +1)

That would be using all of Shiva's 18 he would have gained in HA(without quests).

What if you had to spend talent points to learn new spells, or be able to use new weapons? That'd be a different way to use 'em...

For L3 Weapons, we should make them able to posibly block attacks. Or possibly Korind's knock-down/stun effect idea.

All RIGHT! There's the Narrator that we all know and love! I think that in the end, I'm actually okay with anything we come up with here (and chances are, if you guys like it, I'll love it), though I am slightly intimidated by the thought of "buying" stats, even if only to a small degree.

One paragraph did confuse me, though:

QuoteBecause your base stats are low, you gain a small bonus to one stat based on your race (to show that a race is better at certain classes). Then, as you play your base quest, you will do a series of "training" quests which will reward you with enough talent points to specialize based on what is initially available for your base class in the talent book*. One you are officially specialized as a certian class, you may then begin picking at talents that would belong to other base classes at a penalty of increase point cost. Or, you can muddle your class a bit with related classes within your base class "tree". That is, Rangers have an easier time using some Thief talents that they would using Mercenary talents.

Is there a condensed explanation of that, or maybe an example of a player going through the steps? That would be really helpful!

Oh, and thanks to MG for clarifying how the 15 talent points would work; I was under the impression that 1 talent point would be 1 talent. Makes a lot more sense now.

And speaking of the "leadership" skill, I love the sound of party buffs... the advanced scribe skills were something that could have been really fun to have on someone back in HA... (if not very annoying to calculate for the poor GM).

Finally, for the weapons training (e.g. Shiva's Spear Training), I think that'd be a good talent... though I'm more in favor of having multiple levels of "Spear Mastery" and so on.

For weapon useage, we could use a level system like this.
Training=E
Deku=D
Bronze=C
Iron=B
Gilded=A
Magic=S
You start at level E and go up to S by hitting enemys with weapons. Recognize this MG?

Yep, weapons system from Fire Emblem... The more you use the weapon, the higher it's level gets, allowing you to use the next level of weapons.

I really like that Marin! I'll probably implement it as you have it. Though, weapon upgrades will be obtained via talent points, not usage.

Yes! That's exactly what I was hoping for (the talent points placed into "weapon mastery/skill")! Hopefully it'll allow for some really interesting melee builds...

Maybe a dual-wield talent point skill, to increase dual wield efficiency for certain/all(?) weapons?

Might we hope for a narative bonus for good RP? even just a 1-5 point bonus would let players feel like they were in controll of things a little. Or perhaps good RP could alow players to earn back spirit. If we implemented these systems than players who RP'ed properly would be more capable and more sucsessful. It might make for a larger incentive to make the board more than a meat grinder.

At the fear of shifting the discussion away from an important topic, combat, I'm going to talk about magic for a second. Magic is a funny thing in LOZ. In most cases its very simple and very powerful, but it works more like a "zelda toy" (hook shot, gnat hat, etc) than a spell. Link never speaks to the dead, or uses clairvoyance, he never enchants his weapon, or reduces his enemies to a pillar of salt. We on the other hand will be using a magic system that will suport such things and not simply be powerful special effects bound to items. So, in my constant love of over working things I purpose a new magic system, see below. Magic is a raw untamed force. The very word entails power beyond the ken of mortal men. To this end, and to make a magic system that feels more like the actual use of magic I would like to change our current magic system. this is quite the over haul and I am very prepared to have it rejected entirely. but please read on.

Instead of having preprogramed spells we could use much more general spells that could be further defined. See below.

(Cost 4) Mental Command: Target's will is dominated by the will of the caster.
Modifiers:
Spell duration
Momentary:1
1-30 mins: 2
1 hour: 3
1 day: 4
1 week: 6
1 month: 7
1 year: 8
elements:
1:1
a few (3): 2
many (up to 7): 3
Many complex elements: 4
Tasks
Subject must preform 1 simple task: 5
multiple simple tasks: 6
One complex task: 7
Multiple complex tasks: 8
Spell Range:
Touch:1
with unaided sight: 2
few miles: 3
another city: 4
another country: 5
another time: 6
another dimension: 7
Subjects affected:
1:1
2-10:2
up to 100: 3
up to 1000: 4
an entire country: 5
subject is a wizard: 3
Subject is a daemon or other supernatural entity: 8
familiarity:
Know subject well 1
Barely know subject 2
Don't know subject 3
subject is totally unknown to you: 4

So lets say our dear wizard wishes to make a stall owner give him a reasonable price on a piece of fruit. He casts mental command, at a cost of 4, and applies the following parameters:


Base cost: 4
1-30 mins: 2
1 element (give me fair price on piece of fruit):1
1 task: 5
Unaided sight: 2
1 subject: 1
Don't know subject (local merchant, human, we know what he is, but we don't know WHO) 3
Total 18!
The wizards rank in Spirit would be subtracted from this total giving more powerful wizards a benefit.

This alone could be adopted very simply and allow for custom spells and much more freedom as to how spell casting works. All we would have to do is cook up the spell list and their base cost.
But wait there's more!
How does one gather the power to preform such a spell? Well we would roll a D20 and see what kind of energy he was able to gather
Magic would come in four varieties:
Hearts (D20 1-5): mental and emotional
Diamonds: (D20 6-10): Physical magic. Atoms, shape and form
Clubs: (D20 11-15): elemental magic, earth air fire water wood.
Spades (D20 16-20): Spirit. Ghosts, clairvoyance, gateways.
When you rolled a dice you would consult the folowing table:
1: 1 of hearts
2: 2 of hearts
3: 3 of hearts
4: 4 of hearts
5: 5 of hearts
6: 1 of Diamonds
7: 2 of Diamonds
8: 3 of Diamonds
9: 4 of Diamonds
10: 5 of Diamonds
11: 1 of Clubs
12: 2 of Clubs
13: 3 of Clubs
14: 4 of Clubs
15: 5 of Clubs
16: 1 of Spades
17: 2 of Spades
18: 3 of Spades
19: 4 of Spades
20: 5 of Spades
This way a player gains a "hand" of energy with which to spend on the spell. All spells would have an alignment, and when a player wanted to cast a spell they could spend magic points as "wild cards" and/or start drawing magic. Any point played out of suit counts only as one point and causes harmonics. For instance if you played the 5 of spades in the mental command spell listed above your wish for a fair price would be cast on the shop keeper but it would also manifest itself as a spirit. A powerful one too, because it was the 5! This spirit is based in the wish for fairness so it would go around and wreak "justice" for as long as the spell is supposed to take effect.

If anyone likes these Ideas I'll post the other harmonics. But for now my arms are tired.

Totally, Jack Hp. I'll think of some kind of reward for good rping (talent points may be a bit much). I'm open to suggestions as well.

I meant in combat specificly. It would be nice to see more than I hit him agian. I hit him again...

Agreed, the combat system could stand to be livened up more. I could see perhaps a "best rper" award being given per group event, with that person getting an extra talent point along with whatever else they earned.

A suggestion for ranged weapons
Weapon   DMG Range
Hand Axe   high   25ft
Javalin        MH    50ft
Short Bow   M      75ft
Bow           ML    100ft
Long Bow     L     150ft

Particularly a 1-5 point bonus to people's rolls for good RP. so...example

Cassanda swings her sword in a arc, slaming into her oponent's leg. 1 point bonus to ATK roll.

Casandra brings her blade around in an arc, there is a moment when the light catches it just right, the sun flares off its razor edge before the motion continues down toward the mobiln's vunerable throat. 2 point bonus to ATK roll.

Casandra's vorpal blade hangs in the air, the light gleaming of its mirrored surface. In it's quicsilver glare you can see her smile, wild, wide, joyful. The blade completes it motion, smooth, simple. There is no wasted motion. There are no curves. Her foe's chest fountains blood as he falls to the ground with a crash or steel and bone. She shakes the blood, which falls with the light patter of rain,  from her blade and sheaths it. 3 point bonus to atack roll.

QuoteA suggestion for ranged weapons

I don't think that's how damage is working anymore, but the range could possibly work...

QuoteSpell duration
Momentary:1
1-30 mins: 2
1 hour: 3
1 day: 4
1 week: 6
1 month: 7
1 year: 8

How exactly would this work on attacks? Would you have to do momentary, if we could do 1-30 min, battles would be easy because we could control the enemies. Also, I'm not sure how it'll match up with our stats. Other than that, I like it... I like it alot...

Jack, are our stats going to be alot less than in HA, or are people going to get their stats close to what they were?

Because with Jack Half's system, spells are expensive. The cheapest for mental command is 14. And that situation will almost never be used

QuoteTraining=E
Deku=D
Bronze=C
Iron=B
Gilded=A
Magic=S

I think this system is awesome. I was thinking we should get 2 weapons at the E rating to begin with. Then you can spend 5 tp(over time/something) to upgrade to magic weaponry.

On that thought, how are we going to handle magic weapons... Is there still going to be one of each, or will they be readily available?

More on that thought: How are we going to handle people that leave the game? At the closing of HA all the rare quest items were useless because the owners had left.

Arthur- Magic Hammer, Book of Mub
Rugger- Magic Spear
Ronin- Bombos Medallion
Striker- L3 Heart Container...

Stuff like that. I was thinking that after an inactive month, the item could be put up for auction.

Because some of it(Bombos especially) would have been a great RP tool. I just don't want to see those items go to waste again.

Also, what role will weapons play? If DMG is decided by STR > DEF now, I don't see how they'll do anything.

well the most obvious way to handle the problem of controlling enemies is when the GM creates them he gives them spell imunities. But our dear narrator has been so wise as to make spells no longer intant hit. There is a chance that they will miss. And there is nothing that a clever and flexible GM can't handle. Say one of your players takes over a creature, let them play it out see how it works, if it gets to powerful...
HA! suddenly the other enemies notice that their ally has betrayed them! in vegence they all turn on him raining a hail of blows on his for in the name of Ganon!

Also magic would be much slower this way, Sure you COULD take over an enemies mind, but it would take a  good long time, and the enemy will surely notice and come an smack the resident mage around hoping to break his focus.

This would make magic function... well like magic. you can take your time, preparing corectly, focusing, drawing strange symbols in the air. Or you can whip it out fast and suffer harmonics!

Also, mental comand was just an example, perhaps not one we wish to use. 5 points of its cost come from the fact that its target must DO something. If your casting a basic fireball, well than, thats five points you don't have to worry about.

(5 of clubs) Elemental burst: Caster brings the raw elemental forces of the world to their will.
Base cost: 5
Durration: Momentary 1
Range: Unaided sight 2
Elements: 1 (burst of flame)
Targets: 1
familiarity: Don't know subject 3
Total: 13

Granted the cost is similar, but this is a basic spell agianst a totaly unknown enemy. Not the cheapest it could be. If you were closer, knew them better, etc, it would be cheaper.

NOW, depending on how fast you want magic to work, you could set the average stat for Spirit at different levels. 5 would make this pretty hard, for an average mage, 10 would make it a cake walk (with use of magic points which work as un-aligned mana). That's just a mater of tweaking.

This same spell could be used many ways
Wana do a Crouching Dragon style leap? sure just try this...

Base cost: 5
Durration: 1-30 mins 2
Range: touch  1
Elements:  many complex elements 4 (Have the very air lift me, and all of my stuff gently into the air, and bring me AND all my stuff down safely when I wish)
Targets: 1
familiarity: Know the subject well (self) 1
Total: 14

Cool eh? alows for much more freedom and function.

I wish I could say that this was my own invention but this is something I lifted from Castle Falkenstein, the RPG I run here in with my freinds. It uses cards so thats where that comes from. But of course I've modified it to use Dice. I know it will need a little tweaking and I'm SURE it doesn't fit with the way magic is planned to work. But what do some other people think, particularly our dear narrator?

QuoteIt uses cards so thats where that comes from.

That's what I thought, because you said:

QuoteThis way a player gains a "hand" of energy with which to spend on the spell.

But you would have to roll multiple times before you got a "hand" of cards.

Quotewhen the GM creates them he gives them spell imunities

That's genious! Brilliant! Bosses/strong foes get immunity, and normal enemies take a turn(or so) to take over...

What do you guys think of actions that take partial turns to execute? I think that would be a cool addition. An example of partial turns would be my Re-dead from HA. When it attacked, it latched onto someone, and attacked them 3 times in one turn. Since they initially had 30 SPD, they did DMG at 30, 20, and 10 SPD turns.

Or leadership, which i've decided we need to have multiple types of, each with different focuses and levels. That way we could have:

Magic 1/2/3
Offensive 1/2/3
Defensive 1/2/3

Say Shiva chooses Offensive. That would cost 1 tp, and it would cost 1 more per level. Then it would cost 2 per level to take Defensive, and finally 3 per level for Magic.(Because of the order chosen)

How about L1 of each effects 1 member, L2 effect the 3 members, and 3 effects all REF'ers.

We could also have negative effects versions against enemies.


Also Jack, how much do you know of willpower? It's a valuable resource and I think we should keep it.

Lots to respond do, let me sort this all out...

(1) I like Jack HP's "Cassandra" example. I will seriously consider implementing that.

(2) SPL/MP this time around will be based on Spirit + Level + Talent Point boosts, so the actual number will be small, but at the same time, SPL costs will be as well. Example: A L1 Zora Scholar starts with 7 SPL (3 for Racial stat bonus + 3 for base class + 1 for level). Other Scholars would start with 4 SPL. Now, to cast a very base spell (like Elemental Burst), the spell costs 1 SPL, which means the Zora Scholar can use it 4 times.

(3) Clarification on hitting an enemy with a spell/attack. With physical attacks, you calculate your chance to hit as AGI + Weapon bonuses + Talent Bonuses + d20 roll. Your AGI will also be very low. Example: a L1 Deku Vagabond will have 6 AGI (3 from Racial bonus + 3 for base class) which means that they'll have a +6 to hit. Keep in mind weapon bonuses will only come into play if you are well trained (via talents) in a particular weapon. Now, you chance to avoid DMG will be calculated DEF + AGI + Armor Class. Armor will be pretty high this time around, so as to adequately defend from attacks. Example: a L1 Human Vagabond will have 2 DEF and 3 AGI, so if they have a basic medium armor piece on with an AC of 8, their total chance to defend will be 13.

(4) That auctioning off of other player's items when they go inactive is a good idea. I'm just wary if they decide to come back and want the item back. Perhaps when a player with a unique item disappears, I'll just give someone else the chance to get a new one. I think you all will be very happy with the item system this time around. I plan to have a lot of unique items available from quests/events straight out of the Zelda games.

(5) I also like your leadership idea MG. I just need to think of cool names for the three leadership talents now...

(6) I have a .doc file I've been working on with the basic gist of the rules, talent examples, and some other details. I'll post it next time I get a chance to smuggle it home from work.

(7) What about willpower MG? Are we talking about of the D&D variety? How do you envision this working?

Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate the suggestions!

No problem, thanks for listening and working with us, I think we'll make this one of the best RP's ever!

QuoteAre we talking about of the D&D variety?

I don't know... Jack HP can answer that way better than me, but here's a description:

You have a stat(in HA we used SPL), and when you attack it's placed in one of 5 columns:

Rolling to 20...

Fumble(15 or less)- Horrible, attacks fail/hit teammates, locks become unpickable, strength fails(checks)
Failure(16-19)- Bad, Attacks miss, footing slips, locks stay locked
Partial Success(20-24)- Decent, Attacks hit, locks open forcefully, takes work, but checks succeed
Success(25-30)- Good, Attacks hit smooth, locks slide open, checks pass
Extreme Success(30+)- Excellent, Attacks cut deeply, locks are destroyed(in a good way), easily pass checks(show off/pose)

Anyway, while I don't really remember that, here's the great part. Say I need a 20 to hit, and I get 10. I'm like "Crap, I just killed Jack!(He hate's that ;))" Then I could give up 6 points of SPL and it would increase the attack up to a normal failure, so I don't kill Jack ;D. Of course since it's a stat, you can run out, like Gorjak did in Jack Half's quest. Then he didn't have any to use.

Jack Half, feel free to add anything I forgot...

That brings me to a new point, delete resting! We don't need it, it's cheap and annoying.

Also, does AGI determine turn order?

Ah that makes a lot of sense. We could definitely use Spirit for that, since it seems to be similar to willpower (at least in name).

Yeah AGI would have to determine order, since SPD doesn't exist as a stat anymore.

As for resting, well I think its necessary since it forces people to conserve their stats and think wisely about their actions. I'm gonna have to be inclined to keep it.  :-\

Shiva got willpower down almost perfect only one thing he missed. The sucsess of your action was not determined by roll but by total. It worked like this.

Fumble (your total is less than half the target number)
Failure (your total is less than the target number)
Partial sucsess (your total is equal or greater than the target number)
Full sucsess (your total is greater than the target by half)
High sucsess ( your total is twice or greater the target number)

So let's say you want to jump over a chasam
Your agility+rp bonus+d20 compared to target number  (+D20?)+(what ever arbitray number the GM adds to make things a challenge) you then compare the result.

You tell your player what kind of sucsess they will have and give them the option to use willpower to make up the difference and raise their sucsess rate. Initaly I had it established so that you could only move up one level, but that could be changed.

And Shiva, not even I remember that post that well. (bad asian accent) you honor me too much...

The problem with resting is that it negates the value of this system seeing as people can regain magic when ever. Now this could be balanced by clever GM'ing, atack them in their sleep (LAUGH WITH ME! MWAHAHAHAHAHA... ok thats enough) or any myriad of options. But the best way to handle people regaining magic and health is to hand out hearts and magic vials.

When I run a game, (any game) i always shoot to make the game a challenge. Let the players feel threatened. Let them feel excited. But don't work to kill them. Allthough that isn't possible in our game. (hey theres an Idea! could we make it so that characters who have no hp can't post? that would make health and potions a real comodity!) so when I ran my quest I just gave out things when the players needed them most. This alows for a resource to manage. Do i give the heart to Cassy? What if Tommas needs it? I could trade it with Shiva for a magic vial, which I Really need...

thoughts?

And I know you have a magic system already worked up but thoughts on my magic idea? yea? ney? perhaps?

Another reason I didn't like resting was because in my quest, at the start the enemies were hard. Everyone in the party would be injured/low on magic, and all of a sudden... FILLED UP!!! Nothing, I worked to make it a challenge, but when they rested after every room, it in turn didn't mean anything since everyone got healed after eery battle. I also came up with the hearts/vials idea on that quest, but then I stopped due to everyone resting. They didn't need the heart because all they had to do was rest for full health and magic. Maybe we could keep it if it was limited to 1 per quest.

OK, here's a situation that needs to occur more often I think... in HA, we had that one quest where Hyrule Castle was attacked. That needs to be possible, no... likely. Everytime a quest occurs, the thought that something bad could happen to Hyrule needs to always be there, on our minds. That way, our forces are balanced between protection and quests. Realistically, a nation wouldn't send off all it's best warriors to battle monsters, and while we could all leave, chances are that Hyrule could get attacked. Then, someone who wasn't going, could control opposing forces and those who stayed could battle to protect Hyrule. Thoughts?  

Scripted events like the castle being under attack would be most simple to create if the mods had a constantly running story they were planning on, and the player's actions would determine the flow of the story.

I would be all for any kind of risk in the game. There is no loss, the way we played. you couldn't die, you couldn't lose cool items, you couldn't fail. This is why me telling my story was so improtant to..er...me. It allowed me a way to estabilish some sort of conflict. some sort of threat. I once again purpose that people with no HP should be inable to post anything but private messages. This way the character is KO'd. if a charater stays ko'd for a week, they are dead. this puts the threat of death on players heads. Put in a bonus for die rolls for RP and sudenly we've got some real reason to RP, and to think carefully before charging blindly into battle.

Heres something. You start aas a race but dont have a class, as you level up you are given stat points to increse stats, weapon points to increase your weapon useage, and skill points for lots of skills such as thiefery, magic, music, ect.

I don't think our narrator is keen on this idea of "custom classes" it has been purposed before (albeit, in different ways) and he has said that he really wants classes.

Aah, I'm getting behind in this thread. I guess I'll just pick and choose, then...

Leadership: Shiva, is this some sort of... team buff system? Basically, talent points invested in levels of "defensive" leadership would boost the entire party's DEF rating? I was hoping more for seperate buff skills that could be taken up and specialized in, not sure if this is the same thing?

Resting Controversy: I personally like the system used in Zelda games ^^. Exterminate a room full of Keese, you're bound to get a few hearts for your trouble. Find a small room with a beamos and 3-4 pots? Chances are that you'll get something for your trouble, and if your reward is two large jugs of magic potion, get ready for something sensational in the next room. The difference, like Dylan mentioned, would be the party element. Who knows? It could allow for some more of them "decisions that impact character relationships". "Mister, can I have that magic vial?" "No."

:D

Quotethoughts on my magic idea? yea? ney? perhaps?

Hate to see something like this fall to the wayside. My thoughts touch on compromising ideas... some parts of the proposed magic idea might be a little complicated, notably the four "levels" (so I translated... not sure if that's a correct equivalent) of magic "power" (clubs, spades, hearts, diamonds). But the possibility of magic that has very high plasticity is awesome. The player says something as simple (for them, muaha) as "I cast fire burst on moblin 1", and the GM rattles off something like "well let's see, X base cost, momentary, unaided sight, one element, one target, familiarity doesn't matter here. Nice writing by the way. Let's see what happens...."

We could simulate a world where everything does matter--without driving everyone nuts with math. Long as the GM is coolheaded and fair, a system of approximations (8 SPL for your fire burst, DMG rating [mentally computed based on magic skill plus modifiers] 14) could be a possibility. Maybe a bit of a novelty.

QuoteThis would make magic function... well like magic. you can take your time, preparing corectly, focusing, drawing strange symbols in the air. Or you can whip it out fast and suffer harmonics!

Maybe a system or possibly just a single command of "meditate" or "focus" to take up a turn but exponentially increase the potential of a spell (or maybe even an attack? paw the ground a bit before you charge)?

Leadership: I was thinking it could be like a free spell, usable at any time, and you could have different ones, yes. I was just throwing out the idea that we could have leadership do varying things so it would be useful at any time. Maybe ones that boost attack, some that raise AGI... anyway, once we see narrator's base rules that'll be easier to figure out.

Items: If we had the hearts and vials system too plentiful, it wouldn't balance unless we made them instant use... and I don't think they would be as good insta-use style.

Quote"decisions that impact character relationships"

YES!!! I remember throwing this out during HA. Rivalries... Not have everyone be friends with everyone. I think that would be cool.

Also, Jack HP, how exactly would the cards work?

And Narrator, if Spirit is used as a willpower of sorts, I think we may need slightly more than what we'd currently have.

I think there should be some sort of penalty for dying too. Not just that you can't post, but something character-wise...

I was really amazed by the fact that everyone was always buddy buddy all the time too. Dispite my best efforts. I think if players create authentic characters than there should be no problem with rivalries. Perhaps we could use the questions established for the CotT guild. I, of course, rather liked those.

Drawing cards would look like this.

Igneous, a fire mage, wants to cause the nearest moblin to burst into flame. So she says this...

Igneous reaches into her spell book and removes a rectangle of paper as long as her slender palm, it is covered with worling markings in a deep red ink. She holds it to her forehead and closes her eyes. the markings begin to smoulder and a whisp of sweet smelling smoke rises above her head. As you watch the smoke its self begins to create a wreath of runes around her Head.

OOC: elemental burst
Cost: 5c (base) Durration: Momentary 1 Range: Unaided sight 2 Elements: 1 (burst of flame) Targets: 1 familiarity: Don't know subject 3
Total: 13
Drawing

Now lets say that igneous has a spirit of 7 and an equal number of MP. The 7 is subtracted from the cost (to represent inate magic ablility) this drops the cost to... 6. Now she could just spend 6 points of MP, but that would leave her helpless when it came to willpower. So she places
Drawing at the bottom of her post. This tells the GM she wants to gather magic from around her. so he rolls a d20 and she gets a... 18, 3 of spades. But the GM thinks that was some pretty good RP; worth four points... yeah sure. he fudges the dice roll down four points and gives her the 5 of clubs instead, exactly what she needed. His next post tells her that in her "hand" of magic she now has the 5 of clubs. Her spell is aligned to clubs so on her next turn she spends the five, and one point of MP to make up the requirement for her spell. The moblin bursts into flame.

But lets say she hadn't RP'd and didn't get the 5. she got the 3 of spades(3S). so the GM tells her that her magic hand contains the 3 of spades (3S. on her next turn she draws again, gets the 5 of hearts (5H). her hand now contains two cards the three of clubs and the five or hearts (3S,5H). She says she's drawing again. (all this time the fighters are protecting her so that she doesn't get hit and lose her magic hand. While holding magic your character can preform any action, but at a -5 penalty. If you wish to "dispell" your gathered magic you can preform your action with no penalty.) Finaly she gets the 3 of Clubs (3C), the GM says her magic hand contains (3S, 5H, 3C) she decides that's enough, she'll suffer the consequences of harmonics.
Cost 6
3S out of suit: 1
5H out of suit: 1
3C in suit: 3
total magic drawn 5, leaving a one point cost to MP. The spell works but suffers two harmonics. A level 3 spirt card, and a level 5 emotional card. The GM says that the fireball works, but in the flames you can see a face! The rage of the flames combined with the spirit it has causes it to live longe than it should it leaps at the nearest target, one of the fighters. But it is short lived and only singes him (3 points of damage) before it fades away with a scream! Courage check everyone! if you fail take 2 points of damage for shock.

Understand or should I try again?

Associations for magic: when dealing with any spell, or is harmonics you can just look at its associations. anyone know of a free/good drafting program and I'll make a magic circle...

Swords (spades): decay, red, rage, valor, west , fall, left, Past, Fire, place outside
Roses (hearts): creation, green, love, desire, East, spring, Right, earth, future, Place inside
Rings (diamonds): existence, yellow, integrity, rigidity, north, summer, forward, Air, present, place between
Flames (clubs): Void, blue, sorrow, peace, south, winter, behind, water, timeless, placeless

OK, thanks... now I understand. I like it, but I could see it getting in the way more than anything. Think of it this way, a mage needs to spend 3+ turns(and most battles lasted 1-2 rounds anyway) trying to get the card for the spell, and in that time, most of the enemies would be dead. Say we have 6 people questing, that mage has to let 5 attacks go just to use it(once they draw it), and I would see most people just using whatever card they had accepting the -5 penalty, since it would not do much anyway.

What if say the spell(from your post) costs 6. You draw cards in one turn until your total is > cost. So you get a 16(1S), a 3(3D), and a 10(5H). Total = 9, and then for every extra point, and every card aligned with the spell(Spades-Fire) you take a point from the cost. That way 9-6=3, 3-1=2. The spell would cost 2 SPI to use. That way, spells take a round to power up, cancelling out their auto-hit bonus. Also, you could get a -2 for your card being drawn. Thought?

Well this one comes down to how you envision magic. My thoughts are magic is not the kind of thing you just whip out, its Thaumaturgy, a science. You have to focus, meditate, work out the equations, or the stuff hits the fan. Screwing around in the fabric of reality should be done with caution. Magic is slow. Magic takes time. Magic is very, very, powerful. And if used wrong, than, your skin becomes a seperate living entity. A hungry one. Get the picture?
Now, that said, maybe thats now how we want magic to work. This isn't my game, I'm only giving people options. I hated the old magic system, it was too powerful, too fast, too TOO! magic needs to be weakened. That is why I purposed this system. As for battles being ended before the mage can cast the spell, well and good, make the battles harder and longer, that is up to the GM.

Igneous, its getting close! DO SOMETHING!

The shuriken that flew from Tom's hand rebound off the monster's thick hide and imbed themselves in the walls, floor, everywhere. One takes a moblin in the eye, but the Dodongo keeps coming...

Almost there She mutters between her teeth in a sour singsong voice. Just keep it back...

Now, perhaps this isn't how everyone else want's magic to work. Perhaps it's too complicated. Ok. set it aside. I've no problem. I like it. But I am not in charge, nor am I everyone else. I'm not arrogant enough to insist on it. Just thought I'd present it as an option.

I still don't think you understand how my purposed system works. the -5 penalty goes for attacking, jumping, running, defending, romancing, any sort of action your doing while drawing or holding magic. Magic requires focus. Magic requires that you put your mind and heart into the effort of binding reality to your will. You CAN defend a blow from a moblin while doing this, just don't expect it to work real well. This is to make it so that people can't be invunerable with magic like they could in the last game. A mage in the last game could run around throwing bursts and empty a room in two turns, a major reason that the combat ended so fast. But what if that mage had to sit still and focus that spell for 3 turns while you protected them? suddenly we've got a whole new play style. If a mage fails, fumbles, or takes damage, they lose their "hand" and have to start over again.

edited this about 7 times now...

I don't think I've addressed your point yet.

I don't like fast magic. Thats me. I'm curious about what the rest of the group has to say. My thoughs are  HELL NO! but thats because I like my system. It's not my game (he said again). If the group is against me, than more power to them, I won't begrudge anyone for different opinions.

Fire away

You guys are free to use the playing card system for your own events in HA2, but for official events the dice-based rules will apply.

Attached is the beginning of the rules set in .doc format. This is bare bones version of what it will be in the end, as I still have to add stuff like the rest of the talents, the leadership system, the willpower system, and a few other tidbits.

I will post the complete rule set sometime this weekend, and give you guys the next week to express your concerns over what is present.

Starting monday I will begin work on the "world" of HA2. If all goes accoridng to plan, the game will be done by the end of May. Hopefully it will be done much earlier than that, like halfway through.

I have to go in just a second, but I thought I'd mention a few things first...

QuoteI hated the old magic system, it was too powerful, too fast, too TOO! magic needs to be weakened.

"Powerful" is tough to gauge... the way I saw it, magic was pretty balanced in the way that it neither dominated (was always better than) melee nor fell to the wayside as a waste of turns/SPL (yea, you're right, this is coming from an HA1 mage). While someone with a good hammer or pair of swords could do 29-30 DMG without using any SPL (providing their ATT was high enough), the maximum DMG for a spell-caster was 20 DMG, for Fire (save for Fire against Zoras, and for the Prestige Cleric spells which we never saw). Thus, (offensive) magic was generally the thing to use in 1) ranged situations and 2) situations where the caster's ATT was too low (something pretty common in the case of all the mages).

But true, magic was very "fast" (though two bursts might take down one moblin, not a whole room of them). The problem with requiring 2-3 turns for an effective spell would be that most mages would be excluded from duel-type combat--that is, save the ones who invested heavily in physical abilities and saved magic for icing on the cake (which does not quite describe the mages that we read about...). I don't know how Korind could have won any of his one-on-one's without his certain brand of fast and powerful magic (unless the opponent was considerably lower leveled, stupider, poorly equipped, and/or rolled 1's all the time).

Granted, a few of the spells were obviously very powerful. One of these was "Splash." This is the proverbial "kill-all-the-moblins-in-the-room-with-2-casts" (providing that the caster had 40 or more SPL). The other that comes readily to mind are the 50% heals... more often than not it came down to having to kill 2-3 Korinds instead of just one (I think Shiva and Striker can testify to that?).

Which brings us to Narrator's awesome tentative rule document... just looking at it makes me all excited and worried about what to do for character creation! Awesome stuff, Narrator! One thing I noticed in the Spell list for HA2 was "L3: Full Heal: 5 TP." Granted, it's a truck load of TP (10 total to get there), but I think that someone like Korind (who's main drive in life is healing people) would not have too much problem getting their hands on L3 Life, especially after getting to about level 6-7. Could be pretty (too?) wieldy, to say the least...

Also, I wasn't sure how the Fairy spell would fit in with "Life" (what level would it count as?). But all in all, the spells look like they're going to be a lot of fun (which is an understatement).

For weapons, are throwing knives the only weapons available to Vagabonds? And do weapons differ from one another at all (besides RP)? I was also wondering what exactly S, V, and G stood for in the Talent book... is it the different amounts of costs needed for learning weapons not of your own base class (I guess which would explain the Vagabond throwing knife thing)?

For subclasses, are there any major significances besides roleplay (maybe under "New Abilities" and I should just be patient)?

Whew. Yep, those are some of my questions ^_^. Sorry if you feel badgered... though it sounds like the old Korind is back--"pestering, annoying, go-away-Korind" and all. :D Oh, and one last thing--I think that "Shadowmeld" will be an awesome skill. At first I thought, "no one's going to use that!" until I thought about it for a second. And realized the extensive potential of the skill, particularly in one-on-one dual-type battles.  ;)

It's not mentioned in the rules set, but each base class starts with the ability to use one basic weapon. Grunts (G) can use 1H swords, Vagabonds (V) daggers, and Scholars (S) staffs. The "class requirements" for training in each weapon doesn't mean that only one class can use the weapon, it just establishes the cost scale for training.

Example: A bow is a Grunt weapon. There in according to the cost scale, it would cost a Grunt 1TP to train to use it, Vagabonds 2 TP, and Scholars 3TP.

Cost Scale is as follows...
Costs: SCHOLAR (1 S, 2 V, 3 G); VAGABOND (1 V, 2 G, 3 S); GRUNT (1 G, 2 V, 3 S).

G= Grunt
V= Vagabond
S= Scholar

Weapons other than the basic ones will be more powerful.

A Fairy having Fairy cast on it will be scaled to what life would be. That is, L3 Fairy cast on Fairy is like casting L3 life on it.

The subclasses will have specific talents available to only them, to make the difference palpable.

I think Korind was commenting on the fact that the only base weapon for Vagabonds is a dagger. Whereas Scholars have a choice(slingshot/cane), and Grunts have even more choices(2H Hammer/Bow/2H Sword/Spear). Basically this limits theives, rangers and bards to daggers, unless they want to spend double tp.

Hmm, good point. I'll probably add Short Bow, for the Ranger aspect, Quarterstaff for all, and a Garrote (choking wire) that only Thieves can use.

Waow... Garrote. *makes "URK" sound* Definitely cool.

Quoteeach base class starts with the ability to use one basic weapon.

Does this mean that everyone starts with L1 in the most basic of their weapons?

Oh, and one thing that this reminds me of that we've brought up here and there... is "weaponless" fighting, or fist-fighting. Have you considered punching and kicking as means of damage dealing at all? If there would be reasons to use it besides role-play, I think it could work well with the talent point system...

Quote from: weienw on May 05, 2005, 07:38:10 PMDoes this mean that everyone starts with L1 in the most basic of their weapons?

Oh, and one thing that this reminds me of that we've brought up here and there... is "weaponless" fighting, or fist-fighting. Have you considered punching and kicking as means of damage dealing at all?

Yeah, each class will begin with L1 in their basic weapons. I need to put the basic weapons on the list as well.

As for hand to hand combat, I can definitely see a series of talents, like weapons training, that allows you to "harden" your extremities for use in combat. I'll put that on the list.

Another thing I was wondering about was dual-wielding. I know that in HA1 the only weapon that non-soldiers could double up on were swords, and the "Gilded sword + Hylian shield" vs "2 Gilded swords" options were very balanced in terms of advantages. Two thumbs up!

Will double wielding work similarly in HA2? Granted, we don't have too many weapons that could be dual wielded so far (obviously not bows, slings, and anything that starts with "2H"), but if we did add some in, like:

-1H sword (which you mentioned as an entry level weapon already)
-magic wand (a la theWW or early Zelda games? who knows! ^_^)
-hookshot/longshot
-boomerang
-Deku stick (Dunno, I'm sure we could come up with some advantages)
-Or any of the weapons that Zelda enemies have debuted? Curved gerudo blades, small dinalfos daggers (which were mentioned as entry level weapons), etc?

I was thinking that after a certain amount of mastery (TP invested in) of a weapon, dual wielding could become an option (while, perhaps, using a shield is a given from the beginning)? Maybe if someone was adept (a certain level) in both boomerang using and fencing, they could wield a 'rang and a sword at the same time (well, that brings up two-target fighting, which could be a bit much... :D)? Viability? Thoughts? Maybe dual wielding could be a whole talent point thingie in itself (L1: 50% potential for 2nd weapon, L2: 75% potential for 2nd weapon, L3: 100% potential for 2nd weapon...)?

And on the topic of weapons, have you considered the explosive, one-use types? Namely bombs and deku nuts? Also the distinctive "Goodbye Link" thing that Shiek uses in OOT (POOF, *Link looks around in wonder*)... maybe a Shiekah or Vagabond exclusive?

Please pardon me if you feel pressed/rushed... I do realize that there are a lot of things still pending (like Bard items, hehe); thanks for your work/time!

For dual wield there was going to be a talent to be able to do so in combat. L1 has a 50% DMG reduction on the off-hand weapon, and each subsequent level reduces the reduction so the offhand weapon becomes more damaging.

I'll probably be adding more weapons in the future, but for now what I've already mentioned plus what's in the rule set so far.

Now, on to more ascetic matters for a moment: tell me what you think of this idea...

On each page, in addition to the name of the area you are in plus the brief description, there will be a small screen of what the area looks like rendered with BS-Zelda-esque graphics. Sometimes you may be able to click certain objects on the screen, say a rock to uncover a hidden stair case. Otherwise you could just use the compass to move ahead. Is this a good idea? (The little area image, that is).

Thoughts?

Well, it depends... how well will the hidden link be hidden? Will it be a 1 pixel by 1 pixel dot in HTML? If so, I think that it can still be spotted if the user tries to highlight it, and in the end, they can always "view source" their way to enlightenment, I think ^^ (Sorry if I just spoiled anything for you).

That could be avoided with little .swf flash files, but that's a whole 'nother (and very time-consuming) story. But I guess I'm just wondering if the hidden link will be able to accomplish its true purpose without exasperated clickers (like me) just finding their way through brainlessly? (JackHP can attest to the fact that things are very hard to hide on the internet.)

Then again... maybe I'm misinterpreting you completely and the clickable items are meant to be found? Like a door in a house leading to another room in the house sort of thing?

I was actually thinking like, if you have an image of the area, say 200x200 in size. There is a rock on the screen that has a staircase under it, so to say. Click on the rock (using image maps) and you'll load the page that is the room under the rock.

Ah, ok... so they wouldn't necessarily need to be hidden from unknowing eyes (and clicks)? That would make sense then, maybe even for navigating through a large building (mansion/castle). Click a door, get to the next room.

I think it'd be cool, only... would it be worth the work, on your part? From what I remember of my sister doing image-map heavy html, it's a lot of grunty short-term memorizing of coordinates (with it getting all the worse if you have something round, like a rock). But yea, that could definitely be a fun addition to the role-play feel. ^^

It'll be easy if I used an image map program (automatically coords the pic for you). THe only tricky part is making all the images, but I think I can find a way around that.

Here's another thought... maybe it'd be cool if we could meet and interact with traditional Zelda characters, like Impa? Since we do have the Shiekah race open to us (though I'm not sure if Impa was a Shiekah back in Adventure of Link)...

Quote from: weienw on May 10, 2005, 02:20:44 PM
Here's another thought... maybe it'd be cool if we could meet and interact with traditional Zelda characters, like Impa? Since we do have the Shiekah race open to us (though I'm not sure if Impa was a Shiekah back in Adventure of Link)...

Like Tingle?

Quote from: Marin on May 10, 2005, 02:33:27 PM

Quote from: weienw on May 10, 2005, 02:20:44 PM
Here's another thought... maybe it'd be cool if we could meet and interact with traditional Zelda characters, like Impa? Since we do have the Shiekah race open to us (though I'm not sure if Impa was a Shiekah back in Adventure of Link)...

Like Tingle?

... Wyndisis would kill him.  But I plan on a new character.

I have a suggestion.How about...er,other lands?Like maybe Somarian Island or something like that?Maybe you'd have to ride a boat if it's outside Hyrule,or,if it's in Hyrule(a.k.a Underground),maybe like the Underworld(ooh...freaky),you'd have to take a well-hidden "special route" somewhere in Hyrule...like maybe a tree stump that's actually an "elevator" to the Sky Kingdom! ;D ,or a well-hidden tunnel leading down to the boiling-hot Core Of Hyrule,or even a useless-looking contraption capable of taking a large crowd down to the bottom of the seas?

From the sneak peaks thread, in a post by our very own Narrator (Jack):

QuoteI can assure you the overworld will not be empty, but will be filled with tons of great content. Also, there may be a few spots that go into the underworld (which WILL be joining East Hyrule, South Hyrule, and Death Mountain Area as one of the four big expansions at some point).

How's that, neh? And this'll be a (relatively) huge overworld, too, we hear...

I'd like to eventually have Byrna/Somaria as areas that you can visit, but those would be a loooong way off.

Also, like you mentioned, there will be a series of "Deku Jump Spots" that will allow you to quickly travel from one spot on the map to another. Some will need to be unlocked with a quest.

The whole place is gonna be huge Gorjack, I can assure you of that.

How 'bout...Prestige Classes, again?It's like Vassal-Royal Knight,Thief-Night Warrior,Nomad-Explorer,and so on...

I wasn't too keen on Prestige Classes as they devloped the first time around. If anything I'd make high-level only class-specific talents that could be really powerful.

will we be able to "create" things in the new game. Could someone run a potion shop and say spend willpower or spell to make items? the more SPL/will the more powerful the Item? I know this concept was brought up on the game but I can't remember if we've addressed it here...

Put that on the back burner until after launch. I'll be willing to give it a serious work once I get the basics down.

How about quests involving certain areas of South Hyrule?Like maybe a Quest to clear Hyrule Castle Town(Just guessing)so it can be rebuilt.

Southern Hyrule will open up eventually. First things first is Papapa, then the middle part of Hyrule, then East Hyrule, then South Hyrule.

How about a shop that sells Red and Blue Mails,identical to the ones from LA DX's Color Dungeon?They would both be expensive or so,and Red would probably be a +5 STR while Blue is +5 DEF or something similar to that.

Stop stealing my ideas.  :P

Those are on my list as Epic items found only in dungeons.

Which brings up the ever-enduring "who gets what" problem at the end of quests XD. Hopefully it won't boil down to the law of "Acquiris Quodcumque Rapis" (you get what you grab).   :)

Och, but back in HA1 the one and only L3 heart piece was the possession of someone who quit. *urk*

Well, you raise an important point Weien.

I'm assuming the people cna roll of for an item. Or, perhaps auction it inside the group.

If someone with a good item quits for more than a month, that item will become available in the next event.

Also, keep in mind there will be more than one of an Epic item (though, granted, not many) and there will only be one of a Legendary item.

Yes, I don't think that item squabbling should be a problem. At least, I don't remember it being one in HA1 (of course I wasn't there when Rugger/Arthur/Wyndisis/Ronin got their Legendary equivalent items though).

The solution with making a good item available from the inventory of a person who quit (might want to give them more than a month though) is nice, though.

Here's an idea that popped into my head while reading through the Rules Set...

How about a sort of "Discern" skill, as a Ranger-only Talent? It would be an innate skill check that would allow a Ranger to try to determine some if not all of an enemy's stats. Of course, if "Insight" can accomplish that, this would be extraneous..

But I was thinking how awesome this would be in conjunction with Honorable Kill... basically "Track" for a specific target.

Jack, when would you want me to do the quest to fight Wyndisis? I already have a few ideas on what to do but I just need a ballpark figure on when I need to get started.

MG and Weien are working on an event, and I guess they have first at bat. When they're done you've got the green light.

Jack,can I also have a Quest?Well,once MG&Korind's and the Wynd vs. Rugger is done,that is.I already started up a thread in Deku Forest,but it's supposed to be an introductory thread,not a kill-this-guy thread...

Well, an event. And yes, you can. Just send me what you have in a PM at HA.