I can't figure this out as to what this means it's blowing my mind
think about it
The moon in Termina (yes, it's another MM theory, kill yourself) would have to have been around for far longer than the three days that Link was around, and indeed must have been around longer than the Skull Kid's ownership of Majora's Mask [spoiler]or Majora's Mask's ownership of the Skull Kid, rather[/spoiler], because the "tears" from the Moon (aka the Moon's Tear, durrr) have a value, as indicated by the Business Scrub in South Clock Town. They're 'popular', and that indicates that there must have been several that fell from the moon in the first place.
So, the moon may always have had that weird-as-hell face, or something... I dunno. I guess what I'm trying to point out is...
ugh, I'm too tired to even remember anymore, but I'm sure at least HnS in all his/her wisdom knows what I'm getting at, however vaguely.
I think I see what you're getting at. I never really thought about that before...
Whoa...
That is weird.
Maybe this incident has happened before.
Hey not impossible.
Assuming that there is an atmosphere over Termina like there is over Earth, the Moon's Tear would likely burn up before it hit the ground. Could that mean that the Moon has always been hovering there, and had never been an extra-terrestrial object?
Maybe it was always like that until the Skull- Oh wait, nevermind, I just remember the end of the game.
Maybe it just wanted to challenge link and skull kid?
Damn computer. Shut off on me while I was typing. ><
If I remember correctly, some of the conversations you can have on the first day show that the citizens of Clock Town has been aware that the moon has been getting closer before Link arrived. So that part shouldn't be that much of a mystery.
As for the tears and the moon's face....Well, face or no face, it would make sense to call gems that fall from the moon "Moon's Tears." As for the face itself, I still think that was something added on by Skull Kid (or the mask itself) to inspire fear into the people below.
Quote from: Darth Wyndisis on March 24, 2009, 01:47:27 PMCould that mean that the Moon has always been hovering there, and had never been an extra-terrestrial object?
I don't think that's even plausible. If something that heavy dips into a planet's atmosphere, I would think that gravity would make it fall. The surface, at least, is a solid, otherwise the moon wouldn't be pockmarked with craters; the crust would also have to be thick enough for the meteorites not to fall into the moon (from what I remember, there are no obvious holes). While helium and other lighter-than-air gasses can lift heavy materials (such as lead) into the air, I don't think the moon would have enough volume for the gas to fill in and keep the moon aloft. So I doubt that the moon has always been hovering there.
Quote from: Hi no Seijin on March 24, 2009, 06:21:17 PM
Quote from: Darth Wyndisis on March 24, 2009, 01:47:27 PMCould that mean that the Moon has always been hovering there, and had never been an extra-terrestrial object?
I don't think that's even plausible. If something that heavy dips into a planet's atmosphere, I would think that gravity would make it fall. The surface, at least, is a solid, otherwise the moon wouldn't be pockmarked with craters; the crust would also have to be thick enough for the meteorites not to fall into the moon (from what I remember, there are no obvious holes). While helium and other lighter-than-air gasses can lift heavy materials (such as lead) into the air, I don't think the moon would have enough volume for the gas to fill in and keep the moon aloft. So I doubt that the moon has always been hovering there.
Isn't the moon pretty close to the earth, even at the begining of the game? It's been a while since I played the game, but I'd say its close enough to be in the atmosphere. So yeah, you would expect it to just come crashing down, but it doesn't.
That's another thing. It fell a bit too slowly. My guess would be extremely powerful magic was used to slow it down. Our antagonist might have reasoned that a large mass taking its sweet time to crush you might be scarier than if it came as fast as it could, and wished to use that to terrify his/her/its victims before killing them.
Of course, the flat plain inside the moon does suggest that it is hollow, so there might have been gases in there that, while it didn't keep the moon buoyant, might have slowed it down some. However, that doesn't seem the slightest bit plausible, so "the wizard did it" is just as good as any other explanation.
But remember (if I remember correctly, I haven't played MM in a while), I think the Gorons said something about Goht being frozen orr something.
...Ok maybe that doesn't really matter...
But what I'm trying to say is...
How long have the bosses been there, in their little battle arenas?
It might be them that's keeping the moon there.
Because when you beat one of them a giant comes out, so you can call them to help stop the moon.
And you know how in your menu it shows the boss masks? (And the end of the game of course when you're battling MM) The Giants could have been sealed inside those masks and turned into evil creatures, whilst beating the bosses helped them escape.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND I was gonna say something else but I forgot what...
But anyway, I'm sure what I said it probably not the case at all. :-*
Quote from: TP Zelda on March 24, 2009, 08:27:25 PM
But remember (if I remember correctly, I haven't played MM in a while), I think the Gorons said something about Goht being frozen orr something.
...Ok maybe that doesn't really matter...
But what I'm trying to say is...
How long have the bosses been there, in their little battle arenas?
It might be them that's keeping the moon there.
Because when you beat one of them a giant comes out, so you can call them to help stop the moon.
And you know how in your menu it shows the boss masks? (And the end of the game of course when you're battling MM) The Giants could have been sealed inside those masks and turned into evil creatures, whilst beating the bosses helped them escape.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND I was gonna say something else but I forgot what...
But anyway, I'm sure what I said it probably not the case at all. :-*
Well, there was the whole fact that Goht was frozen and you had to thaw it to fight it, but then you probably remember that :P
Then again, Goht's freezing may very well have been a part of turning the entirety of Goronland into a tundra. However, it's been made clear by reading the remains' descriptions that the bosses were entities created solely by corrupting and sealing the giants within the remains, which are simply masks.
But I see where you're coming from, HnS, but keep in mind that this is an entirely alternate world from Hyrule, another dimension at
least, where the physics may be different, even if ever so slightly.
Yeah, I know, but I find it helpful if they follow many of the same laws of nature found elsewhere. It's just really hard for me to believe that a moon, solid all the way or most of the way to the core, would just hover over a single location in a planet's atmosphere without moving until someone attempts to bring it down. Quite frankly, I would find it slightly more believable that a moon could orbit so close to a planet that it's in the atmosphere.
Considering how long the days (and hours) are, the planet must be moving ridiculously quickly-- quickly enough to keep the moon in some kind of orbit.
I want to believe that the moon already dropped "tears" into Termina, and it is in no way related to the Skull Kid's curse. Although there is that issue with the moon, I think more energy was spent into holding it there than slowly pulling it down.
That leaves a few problems-- the consistency, shape, roughness, and overall "worth" of the tears would have changed depending on the moon's altitude. The tears would have had to travel further and would, consequently, have burned even more (the tear was already burning from that short drop it made), changing a lot of factors regarding the stone.
Quote from: Davy Jones on March 26, 2009, 02:40:18 AM
That leaves a few problems-- the consistency, shape, roughness, and overall "worth" of the tears would have changed depending on the moon's altitude. The tears would have had to travel further and would, consequently, have burned even more (the tear was already burning from that short drop it made), changing a lot of factors regarding the stone.
Maybe it's made out of diamonds? :P
But guys, remember, MM is like, and inverse of Hyrule, in a way. (I think so, anyway.
Because it's got powers.
Like magical masks, swords, etc.
>.>?
Quote from: Davy Jones on March 25, 2009, 11:18:03 PM
Considering how long the days (and hours) are, the planet must be moving ridiculously quickly-- quickly enough to keep the moon in some kind of orbit.
Are you talking about how quick the in-game clock is? Because that has to be too fast to be realistic.
Quote from: TP Zelda on March 26, 2009, 02:48:56 PM
But guys, remember, MM is like, and inverse of Hyrule, in a way. (I think so, anyway.
Because it's got powers.
Like magical masks, swords, etc.
>.>?
Hyrule has magical masks (don't tell me the Mask of Truth isn't magical), swords, etc. as well.
Quote from: Hi no Seijin on March 27, 2009, 05:02:18 PM
Quote from: Davy Jones on March 25, 2009, 11:18:03 PM
Considering how long the days (and hours) are, the planet must be moving ridiculously quickly-- quickly enough to keep the moon in some kind of orbit.
Are you talking about how quick the in-game clock is? Because that has to be too fast to be realistic.
Although I see where you're coming from, if we're going to get into the logistics behind the Zelda games, look at the Hyrule days-- they're even faster. Keep in mind how long it takes for a normal person to walk from a place to another place. Although the time is probably exaggerated for the sake of a challenge, the days still strike me as much shorter than those we're familiar with.
Sorry to double-post and necropost, but I think I realized what's up with the moon.
It was always falling.
Before the Giants were sealed away by the Skull Kid, part of their duty as guardian deities was to hold the moon in place. They didn't need to do it physically, because it wasn't being magically pulled down. They're magical, it wasn't (other than the fact that it presumably still had a face). They could hold it up from where they were (100 paces away from the clock tower in all directions).
"All of these festivities for the Carnival of Time are held so that we may ask the gods for a rich harvest in the year to come!" —Anju's grandmother
The moon and crops have always been closely related together. In many cultures, they solely follow the lunar cycle in order to know when to sow and when to reap. Almost every superstition, such as the idea that the Giants can provide a bountiful harvest, comes with a grain of truth. Perhaps in this case, it's that the Giants controlled the moon, and as such controlled the sea and a lot of meteorological phenomena. By having power over the moon, they had power over the crops.
Where did the game say that they were supposed to hold the moon in place? Or was this just based on what Anju's grandmother said? Either way, this is a pretty sweet thing you noticed, man.
I'm just purely interpolating from the data, and the fact that that was what their job was when Link called them with the Oath to Order, except that time they actually had to do it physically.
The moon doesn't really orbit around the planet, does it...?
No, not really. Then again, the moon's orbit doesn't affect much except the degree of its gravitational pull at any given moment. By moving it ever so slightly in height and stuff like that you could drastically change its effects.
I was just thinking about the whole "moving very fast" comment from earlier and it made me wonder why the moon isn't orbiting...I guess Skull Kid could have stopped its lateral movement and made it come straight down, but...idk. Seems like it would screw with tides.
It might not actually be a "moon" per se, or even a satellite at all. It's quite possible it was a meteor that the Giants stopped, but were unable to completely repel. So instead of trying to destroy it or push it back into space, they just made it hang there.
Quote from: Kixash on January 23, 2010, 02:52:27 PM
Seems like it would screw with tides.
That possibly makes a slight explanation as to why the ocean's temperature was thrown out of whack. Not that I'm an expert on ocean currents, but...eh.
I always thought that that "moon" wasn't a real moon at all, and that it was created just to crash into Termina by Skull kid/ Majora.
After all **SPOILER**It does have that large plain on the inside with the creepy maks salesman kids, who might actually be the tribe that created Majora's Mask meaning the Mask Salesman is the last of the tribe, but that's a different subject.
Going by the fact that they're there might mean it's something that the old rituals the Majora's Mask was made for. Maybe the mask was always made to create something to crash into the earth, or pull the moon from orbit.
^ According to the HMS, no one but the ancient tribe knew the exact capabilities of the mask's power. If he were a member of the tribe, he probably would've known himself.
The second thing you said makes sense, though. It was used for hexing rituals, after all, and pulling the moon from orbit was probably just another hex to it.
^ You really think the mask man didn't know what it was capable of? He was so shifty, always seemed to be there right when Link needed him, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't telling you everything.
Since the topic of teh HMS came up, me and my bro were talking last night about MM and stuff, and then I thought "What about the HMS? Like, he would remember what happened the first, second, and third day even after you rewound time. Cuz remember he asked about the mask?" but then I remembered that teh time isn't the same in the little place under the clock tower so then I was sad. XD
But I also thought, he might be a time traveller or somethingg. 'Cause, he says he's been following Link, and I think he says "You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?" or somethingg, so he wouldn't have followed Link into Termina if he didn't have a reason tooo or something...
And then I think, if I remember correctly, at the end of the game he walks off and just disappears. o...O
I seriously think the HMS seriously knew everything that was happening and may have even planned it.
Maybe...
He is supar mysteriouss. He probably could have fended off SkullKid...but then again he did attack him. XD
Seriously look at his face when Skull kid takes the mask. He totally planned.
I mean it that the HMS is definately one of the lost tribe people that created the mask.
Wait when in the game does it show that? O:
lol. maybe. no one really looks or dresses like him, and he does seem to have something special about him (like, collected masks and appearing out of nowhere and disappearing into thin air and saying riddles.... o...O)
but like waht about teh song of storms dude? They like, have the same personalities, though. XD
Like, they have the closed-eyes/smiling thing going on, and then when they get mad they get MAD and their eyes open and they're all red and stuff... o...O I dunno XD
Oh, btw...
Quote from: Mayuri Kurotsuchi on March 24, 2009, 04:12:58 AM
I can't figure this out as to what this means it's blowing my mind
think about it
The moon in Termina (yes, it's another MM theory, kill yourself) would have to have been around for far longer than the three days that Link was around, and indeed must have been around longer than the Skull Kid's ownership of Majora's Mask [spoiler]or Majora's Mask's ownership of the Skull Kid, rather[/spoiler], because the "tears" from the Moon (aka the Moon's Tear, durrr) have a value, as indicated by the Business Scrub in South Clock Town. They're 'popular', and that indicates that there must have been several that fell from the moon in the first place.
So, the moon may always have had that weird-as-hell face, or something... I dunno. I guess what I'm trying to point out is...
ugh, I'm too tired to even remember anymore, but I'm sure at least HnS in all his/her wisdom knows what I'm getting at, however vaguely.
I have an answer to that from a post I saw!
QuoteThe definite proof that the moon always existed in Termina is provided by Shikashi, the astronomer. Talk to him as a Goron or Zora, and this is what he says:
Well, yours is a face I'm not used to seeing... Are you here to do something for me? I am Shikashi, professor of astronomy! I have been enamored with the moon since I was a child. Now, I spend my days gazing at it from here. The moon has long been considered a mystical body, which people have worshiped and feared. That alone shows how the moon has a cosmic influence that affects our daily lives. But lately, there is something quite strange with the moon. Strange, indeed... It seems as though the moon is being pulled down by something and is slowly drawing closer.
No mention of the scary face though.
The odd thing about the face is that it would look very odd with the moon orbiting and such.
It could just be that the face is something only the player sees to help create urgency, but in-game noone else can see it.
Quote from: Kixash on March 21, 2010, 11:17:21 PM
It could just be that the face is something only the player sees to help create urgency, but in-game noone else can see it.
Doubt it.
Quote from: Twin Jugglers[The carnival] happens just once in a blue moon!
Or, in this year's case, once in a very scary, red-eyed moon!
Quote from: Simon the Hole Digger on February 05, 2010, 06:16:51 AM
^ You really think the mask man didn't know what it was capable of? He was so shifty, always seemed to be there right when Link needed him, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't telling you everything.
Can't believe I didn't see this sooner. XD
Maybe not immediately, as it seems he only just recently acquired it. However, I do follow you on his shiftiness; after all, using business as an excuse to leave three days from now, coinciding with the moon's drop? Seems fishy to me, too.
I do think he might have control over time (thanks to zelda wikiaaaa :-X). Like, how could time not pass in the clock tower?
And like, zelda wikia also mentioned that the Lunar Children might be like, child incarnates or whutever of the HMS.
I mean, they do have his hair and they love masks....
I'd like to see him in the next Zelda gamee :P
Quote from: TP Zelda on March 24, 2010, 02:38:13 AM
And like, zelda wikia also mentioned that the Lunar Children might be like, child incarnates or whutever of the HMS.
I mean, they do have his hair and they love masks....
They even mention they;re part of the tribe. I think. But there is plenty of evidence that they are the tribe that created Majora's Mask.
And it's also hinted that the kids ARE the bosses.
QuoteI do think he might have control over time (thanks to zelda wikiaaaa ). Like, how could time not pass in the clock tower?
I think I can also point out something that I found fishy... If time doesn't move beneath the clock tower, and he instructed Link to get the mask to him within 3 day so he could leave....
Shouldn't he have left at the end of the first three days you have, since time wasn't moving where he was at?
Him time-traveling with you would be the only way I can think of that would make him still be "on-time" for whatever he was leaving to go do.
I'm pretty sure that the whole "time not moving under the Clock Tower" thing is only a gameplay mechanic. Remember that the Happy Mask Salesman tells you how many hours remain whenever you talk to him, and his measurements, of course, change based on the time you talk to him. If time didn't pass, he'd repeatedly say, "Only seventy-two hours remain."
Quote from: Tom "Satan" Bombadil on March 24, 2010, 08:53:28 AM
Quote from: TP Zelda on March 24, 2010, 02:38:13 AM
And like, zelda wikia also mentioned that the Lunar Children might be like, child incarnates or whutever of the HMS.
I mean, they do have his hair and they love masks....
They even mention they;re part of the tribe. I think. But there is plenty of evidence that they are the tribe that created Majora's Mask.
And it's also hinted that the kids ARE the bosses.
Yeahh.
Also, Zelda Wikia mentioned something about a kid and Majora's mask...and sitting under a tree while watching the other kids play...
I dunno XD
Good point, Griffin. f=
And Magz...
Yeahh, but like, if he had control over time, then wouldn't he know how much time Link has left anyway?
I dunno.
But also, why is it that when you play the Song of Time that time goes back to the first day?
I mean like I know it's the Song of TIME, but like, why does it do that?
Or am I just being stupid? XP
THE PLOT! THE PLOT!!!!!! I really can't think of anything besides that, if I was in his shoes (witch would be so awesome) I would give me like an extra week at least that way I know I have everything in time ^_^
LOL.
Maybe the Moons power is too great for the HMS or maybe he could control it he just wants to see if Link can do it or not. =b
'Cause I'm pretty sure the HMS could get it back himself...
Well this is just a spitball out there but... What if HMS is really a person from the Twilight realm... I mean It would fit with his love of mask, how he had powers (stupid piano spawner), how he knew what the Majora's Mask could do, and why his time didn't move under the clock tower.
He could have made a link to the Twilight realm under the clock. And that would explain how he just appears and where he's in a hurry to get to.
But again just spitballin'
Then wouldn't he look like someone from there? O:
I dunno. Like, he either does a lot of research orrr he's a person from that ancient tribe Chuck is always talking about...
Because he knows like a lot about every mask, but like...
How would he have gotten the Mask of Truth?
If the Sheikah were alive when he was little, then they probably wouldn't have given it away so carefree (or something) unless he was trusted or a member of the Sheikah.
But if he was a deity/part of that ancient tribe, then he could be able to live for a long time (like elves, maybe?) and obtain it when the Sheikah's disappeared.
Or, if he was a deity or somethingg, and he could control time, then he could probably make it so he never aged...
That probably didn't make any sense at all XD
The happy mask salesman, providing you with crazy theories since the year 2000.
Okay, I'm not saying he's not a Sheikah, but I'm still not saying he's not Twili either.
IMO, he is a person from the twilight realm. Things just point myself in a different approach. Like, his red hair (commonly known to be Gerudo color) makes me think that he's part Gerudo. Plus with how he seems shady and sneaky (which can also go for Shiekah's) adds to that. But if you look on Zant's robes from TP you see the Gerudo pattern hinting that they might be related. Not to mention Midna mentions that the twili use to be a race of thieves. Oh and also Zant's and other twili have yellow eyes.
I didn't forget about Sheikah's because the eye that tends to be linked to them also appear in the Twilight realm in fact on the Fused Shadows (normally behind where Midna's ponytail is) the only difference between them is that the eye is smaller and missing the 3 triangle eyebrow. Plus with the Shiekah's being the protectors of the Shadow temple they have to have some link to shadows. I believe that they made the masks because they have they strong magic. Plus the eye color of Midna helps me with this.
That seems very long just to state why I think he's a Twili, but if you put his use of magic (again darn spawning piano), his red eyes , his rage and hair color of a Gerudo, along with being able to just kinda appear out of nowhere, or spawn you back to him before you run out of days. I just have to think such.
I doubt he'll be Twili because "Twili" were probably not even thought up at the time. So i doubt that for Meta-game reasons.
Still fits with his description... Not saying he is just saying what I believe.
Quote from: TP Zelda on March 24, 2010, 08:51:25 PM
And Magz...
Yeahh, but like, if he had control over time, then wouldn't he know how much time Link has left anyway?
I dunno.
But also, why is it that when you play the Song of Time that time goes back to the first day?
I mean like I know it's the Song of TIME, but like, why does it do that?
He probably would, but I don't really have a good reason to assume that he does have time control, especially since Link shows that ability more prominently than anyone else in the game.
As for your second question...eh, ask the Goddess of Time. She was the credit for the aid, after all. XD