The Desert Colossus

Well guys, the main reason that we're having all these bot problems is because the forums are in dire need of upgrading-- and it's a total PITA for KamakaziPlumber because, honestly, the coding for these forums is, well, archaic to say the least.

KP doesn't have that much free time to devote to TDC anymore, simply because life intervened.  It's happened to all of us at one point or another.

So the question is this, should we keep this layout, deal with the onslaught of bots (botslaught?), and stick to TDC's roots?  OR, should we update the forums to something that probably won't look a hell of a lot like TDC, but get rid of annoying bots and lots of SQL errors?

It's also worth noting that although the new(ish) layout is delightful, it looks rather... dated.  Keep in mind, this is potentially one of the reasons we aren't getting more members at the rate this awesome site deserves.

The main reason that we've stuck to this layout was for Jack.  Jack, the progenitor of TDC, has not been on in a long, long time.  It's a dire shame, but it could be an indication that it's time for change.

And so, the choice is yours.

I'm all for it, so long as nothing really bad is likely to happen.

If we can upgrade the forum software without losing everything, then I'm in favor of upgrading. Being more-or-less rid of the bot problem would be great -- I mean, a few are gonna find their way in no matter what, but if we can keep most of them out, that'd be excellent. Any other benefits we receive from doing so are gravy as far as I'm concerned.

Also, as attached as I am to the forum's current look and layout... well, it's been, for the most part, the same as when I first registered here in 2007. A freshening of the forums' appearance could definitely be helpful -- it might not bring it back to 2007-2008 levels on its own, but if someone who comes across the forums for the first time sees a modern-looking board where people actually post, it could definitely give things a boost.

Regarding Jack... I've never met him, never talked to him, and quite frankly, all I know about him is what I've heard from others. As such, I don't know how he'd feel about us changing things up. But... I honestly can't imagine he'd take too much issue with us (who obviously care for the site enough to continue to stick with it even in spite of the slump it's been going through) doing what's needed to ensure the forums stay alive and well, even if that does mean taking more drastic measures like changing the layout.

This summer, I'll almost certainly be working on TDC. Updating the forums is something I could definitely look in to. Frankly, I've already tried to do it before - it's possible to update the software without losing the layout.

But that's also why all the Link smilies are gone for now...

There's some buggy stuff going on with our servers, it's happened both of the times I've tried to upgrade the software. However, I'm not sure I could get it to upgrade correctly without completely reinstalling, which would delete all accounts and posts unless there's an easy way to back it up.

EITHER WAY, I'd have to talk to Jack first and get back some access I lost a while ago. So I'll shoot him an email once summer starts and move from there.

I'm up for an upgrade as long as we back up the database this time. XD

Regarding layout, I do have a thought that I've entertained a bit but didn't consider feasible due to time constraints. But I'm just gonna say it anyway: Maybe it's high time we rebuilt the entire site on a different framework? We could still keep all the data, but the framework we switch to would potentially lead to better maintainability. Something powerful, easy to use, and with plenty of security options.

I'm talking about Drupal, of course. I've worked with it a lot over the past year (PHP, CSS, HTML, database, the works), and it really is a marvel. There's a bunch of documentation on it, and it's completely customizable (just don't hack core, haha). With time, we could definitely replicate what we already have. Plus, we'd have jQuery. <3

Just a thought, of course, and I'm not really expecting anyone to pay this any mind.

As there has been no more input for a while, I'm moving this into the General Discussion section for open discussion among the general populace.

Me? I don't really care that much, as long as the place is still functional and I have my five stars I'm good to go.

I don't really understand what a forum upgrade could be... Maybe streamlineing PMs? Add like... A chat box thing so you can IM another person real quick? I'm all up for an upgrade of any kind, I need some change.

The upgrade would really not change the functionality of the forums too much-- although it's possible that, if we switch to the right software, we'll be able to institute addons that everyone can agree upon.  The main things that a forum upgrade would do is increase the speed of the forums' loading (hopefully), reduce the number of bot registrations (hopefully), and make the place a little easier to maintain for KP (definitely).

I mean, I think it's cause of the code on the site, but it does jump around a lot when it loads, and it's all buggy when I access it from my phone, so I'm totally fine with an upgrade.

Yeah, when I'm on my Wii, it freezes my console every time I press the back button. Maybe that could be something you could look into? Also the smilies. I miss the old Link Smilies.

So, yeah, if you can upgrade without losing anything, then yes, especially if you can cut down on the bots.  As for the Link smilies...should you bring them back, can you not include the second crying Link?  Department of Redundancy Department (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment) and all that.

Quote from: Shoe-sama on May 04, 2011, 12:03:37 PM
Add like... A chat box thing so you can IM another person real quick?

I think we did that once and it killed the forums. Everyone was like, "why should I post when I can just talk to these people?"

That's pretty much how it went. :P

I'm fine with it though, it never really bothered me. I don't see why the forums need an upgrade aside from the fact that we've had multiple bots sign up in the past couple of weeks/months. I don't have any problems with the loading time of the site either. As far as I'm concerned, TDC is absolutely spectacular like it is. I am however, open to change. If whatever is causing problems became enough of a problem to suggest an upgrade, I'm in no way opposed.

I've actually had to ban/delete close to 50 bots in the past three days, and I'm sure the mods have deleted many more than that.

Quote from: Rainbow Dash on May 06, 2011, 12:41:40 PM
I've actually had to ban/delete close to 50 bots in the past three days, and I'm sure the mods have deleted many more than that.

I wouldn't doubt this, looking at the amount of members that have "joined" recently, compared to well... The amount of them that post.

Quote from: Shoe-sama on May 06, 2011, 01:32:37 PM

Quote from: Rainbow Dash on May 06, 2011, 12:41:40 PM
I've actually had to ban/delete close to 50 bots in the past three days, and I'm sure the mods have deleted many more than that.

I wouldn't doubt this, looking at the amount of members that have "joined" recently, compared to well... The amount of them that post.

Agreed. We definitely need an upgrade then. Last time, we pretty much waited until porn started popping up all over the place before we upgraded. Maybe we shouldn't wait for that this time...

Quote from: Portal Veteran on May 06, 2011, 01:51:09 PM

Quote from: Shoe-sama on May 06, 2011, 01:32:37 PM

Quote from: Rainbow Dash on May 06, 2011, 12:41:40 PM
I've actually had to ban/delete close to 50 bots in the past three days, and I'm sure the mods have deleted many more than that.

I wouldn't doubt this, looking at the amount of members that have "joined" recently, compared to well... The amount of them that post.

Agreed. We definitely need an upgrade then. Last time, we pretty much waited until porn started popping up all over the place before we upgraded. Maybe we shouldn't wait for that this time...

*remembers HE discovered it when it happened* Yeah... We need to upgrade.

OK, so this is totally possible and I'd like to make it my first project for TDC this summer. However, I'll need some more information from Jack before I can start it, so that may take a while depending on how long he takes to reply to my emails once I send them.

I'll see what I can do meanwhile, I might be able to test whether we can use our database information with a fresh install of the forum software because it is basically impossible to update the software as is at this point. Believe me, I've tried before.

EDIT:: So, I just confirmed that I am able to backup our database and reupload it successfully. The only difficulty I might have is that I had to fight with my test server's php settings to make it work, so I don't know if I would have enough access to do that. We'll see once I get the info from Jack.

Just so you guys know, this involves reinstalling the forum software in its entirety, since the current installation refuses to upgrade correctly. I'll try to maintain the old theme initially, at least.

I figured it would involve something drastic.  Do what you must, sir, I believe in you.

We have a backup, in case the forums go down? Where we can all still talk?

There's always the HA2 Talk forums (http://ha2talk.proboards.com/index.cgi?).

The HA2 Forums...Do they take the same accounts here?

Quote from: Fluttershy on May 07, 2011, 02:58:36 PM
The HA2 Forums...Do they take the same accounts here?

I don't know what you're asking there. If you're asking if your account info will transfer, then no, it won't. If everyone wants to move over there when the time comes, you can also find the link to the site on HA2's main page. I created a board there for us to congregate in. The only rules in that board are no racism and no pronz. In case nobody comes up with a better idea, the talk forums are ready for evacuees.

The backup I'm referring to isn't another forum, it's just a copy of everyone's profiles and all the threads/posts on these forums as of the other day. There's a high chance that I'll find a way to keep these forums on the server without making them the main forums so that, in the event that only the upgrade fails for some reason, you could all still post. However, if something happens to the server overall, then everything will go down until that's fixed. That's an unlikely event, though, or at least a temporary problem if it happens.

I think I'll email Jack today and try to get access to the things I need to move on the forum upgrade. While I'm waiting for him, I'll use my local server to start setting up a new forum layout and such. Maybe I can get the old one to work still, maybe not. I'll let you guys know.

I appreciate it, sir.

Jack is up for any changes we might make to the site, he claims it's not even his anymore but I let him know that wasn't really true. However, this also means that the site can be changed any which way and he'd be fine with it, which is good. It will take a bit longer to get the information I need from him, though.

Just thought you all should know.

Quote from: kamakaziplumber on May 10, 2011, 02:13:19 AM
he claims it's not even his anymore
this also means that the site can be changed any which way and he'd be fine with it, which is good.

That is indeed good...
Verrrry good...
hmhmhmhahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHA HA AH AH AHHHH!! :D

OK Jack replied, I now have all the information I need to get started with this business. I'll probably initially just make a test server and ensure that everything works online, and when it's time to make the switch I'll just take these forums down for about a day and do it. It shouldn't take too long, honestly, and of course everything will be backed up.

EDIT:: I've officially tested things, and it works. Even the current layout transfers flawlessly. It was a little irritating copying all the information from the database because I had to use some stupid methods, but it works now. And all the information should be there.

SO, yeah. Tach you can let me know when you want this to go down and I'll PERFORM MAINTENANCE.

I'm going to go ahead and bump this so Tach gets the notification for the edit. DOUBLE POST WOO.

Thanks for the update, KP.  You've got the green light anytime.  Just please put up a message or something so people can know what's going on :D

It is done. Well, I have to upload some images still. But the forums are up and up to date.

Yeah, you kind of started that process while I was in the middle of typing a post.  It's a good thing I preview my posts first; when the preview wasn't showing up, I cut the text and saved it to Notepad.  It's good that you were so quick with the update.

Ah, sorry about that. I actually thought it would go more quickly but I decided to have the forums completely up to date before doing the switch, so nothing at all was lost.

OK, I'm not really sure why the attachments aren't working right now, all the files and database information are in place, but they just aren't showing up. This means avatars uploaded to the server and some images in some posts will no longer show up. So... reupload your avatars, if you have access. If you've lost the files, PM me and I can grab them from my backup and send them to you.

Also, it's up to all you members out there to make sure the forum is working as you remember it. It should be, but if you find any issues at all, let me know via PM or email as soon as possible. It would be great!

I'll also be considering a new layout for the forums, if anyone has any input on that let me know. And, we should now be able to add modifications to the forum at will, so if you guys want anything, you might as well ask for it here since it has to do with the forum upgrade directly.

Hey, KP, if you need some JavaScript stuff added, I'd be more than happy to add it. :D ...Not that I don't think you can do it, of course, but ya know, I like this kind of thing. XD

MagmarFire, I was actually thinking of asking for your help since you seemed to be somewhat interested earlier. I'm not sure if Javascript will be specifically necessary yet, but I'm sure you'd be capable of whatever else needs to be done. We can talk more about this later, if you're still interested.

Heck yeah, I'm still interested! Drop me a line as soon as you have something.

Bumping a sticky in light of the recent bot outbreak. Holy crud, we're deleting these things left and right lately. I think it's high time we did that upgrade. The number of bots getting on there is simply ridiculous. D:

We were fully upgraded as of a few days ago, but there does seem to be an upgrade available now, so I'll get to doing that.

Aha, so, the good news is we are currently on the newest version of SMF! So, hopefully, no more spam bots (for a while).

The bad news is that the classic TDC theme is very, very ugly when used in conjunction with the latest software. So, looks like I have the best excuse to revamp that theme now! For now, we'll just have to use this default. It's not very nice either, but at least it's readable. =/

KP came and saved the day! Awesome!

Say, are we able to customize the framework any to improve security? Is there a CAPTCHA option available to us?

I'll set up the CAPTCHA, as that's something a regular admin can do and it's a waste of KP's time to set it up when he has a million other things to do.

Actually, I think I might have a reCAPTCHA account for TDC already. They have the best captcha plugin by far.

EDIT:: I totes do. I'll take care of it, if you want.

Yeah, reCAPTCHA is pretty excellent.  And upon closer examination, I have no way to enable CAPTCHA on the admin panel.

Is the framework built on PHP? If it is, do you have access to the FTP, KP?

Yes and yes, but why?

I was wondering if there's anything modular we can do if reCAPTCHA can't be enabled with this software. Hopefully, we don't have to go this way, but if there's no option, there needs to be a way to manually add some sort of validation method.

OK, there is a reCAPTCHA mod for SMF, but it isn't working with the newest version, so I can't install it. There aren't even manual installation instructions for SMF 2.0 =(

The good news is I found the setting for normal CAPTCHA under the Admin panel. It's now enabled for Guest posting and for user registration, so that should prevent bots for now. I'll keep tabs on the reCAPTCHA plugin, as well, since I'd much rather have that.

Well it's about time we had that upgrade! I was getting annoyed from these bots!

Gah, porting can't come sooner. :( Oh, well, at least we have some form of security! Thanks, KP!

I'm currently fighting with emulating an older version of the forum so I can install the reCAPTCHA mod then revert. I'll keep everyone posted.

Ugh, I got it to emulate but the mod is still returning installation errors. I'd rather not screw things up for reCAPTCHA's sake, so I think it's best to just wait on a true update to the mod.

As long as the bot invasion is mitigated until then, it's all good.

Quote from: MagmarFire on June 12, 2011, 06:57:42 PM
As long as the bot invasion is mitigated until then, it's all good.

I saw porn on the colossus today.

Not corn. Not scorn. But porn. P-O-R-N.

Things are most certainly not "all good". This is a kid's site and we're getting more bots than we ever did before the upgrade. Seriously, this has to stop. I'm not hating on any of you porn addicts out there. Sure it's okay to see porn when you're ready to see it. But not at the colossus. I'm actually kind of upset.

Then I suppose the bot invasion wasn't mitigated until then, was it?

Is there really no way to customize our security?

I just installed a new MOD that should help stop spammers. At the very least, it actually compares members who are registering to a DB and should filter out spammers.

Actually, what it really does is mark those users as requiring approval.

I'll give it a while to see if any new spammers show up. Just go ahead and post here as soon as any do. It may or may not be set up correctly as of right now, and there are other MODs I could try too.

Two new spammers in GD today.

If you mean the two most prominent spam posts, one of those spammers registered before I installed the latest mod. The other, unfortunately, got through, but it seems like the mod HAS blocked quite a few spammers (if its logs are to be trusted).

I'd say give it some more time and hope that the mod is actually working. For reference, I installed it on the 17th, so anyone registered before then doesn't count.

If it's really doing its magic, then great find, KP!

I'm not sure if you have to hack the software to get it to work, but it would be nice to have the number of members at the bottom take into account only members who have had their accounts approved. Accuracy and all that.

No biggie, though. It seems like it's working, so that's all that matters!

I'm just glad the Link smilies are back! Yay!  ;D

Since this is old news, I'll now be unstickying this topic to make room for new blood. So don't panic if you can't find the topic about us wanting to upgrade our forum to something that's probably out of date by now anyway, because it's still there!

Quote from: Vaati on August 07, 2011, 06:56:29 AM
I'm just glad the Link smilies are back! Yay!  ;D

That makes two of us!    :)