What is up with you guys (and girls)?

[HylianHero92]

Seeing as it felt off topic to keep repeating myself in the Zelda section and as it requires seriousness not found in the chatboard, I'm posting this in GD. If this is wrong, I apologize to the mods and give them my permission (though they don't need it) to promptly move it.

PLEASE READ THIS! DON'T SKIP DOWN!  ??? :


Okay. Here goes nothing...


What is up with everyone? I know I've said this a few times now, but nobody seems to be listening and I feel a need to defend myself.

The entire Skyward Sword topic was, more or less, all about first impressions. We discussed our first impressions of the game and everything was great. You have no idea how excited I got by this:

I'm not going to defend it; in fact, I agree with most of what you said.

:-[

WHAT?!

I was almost sure the first response to my original post would be outcries of witchcraft and satanism because I disagreed!

And then I realized. Most of the time I disagree with you guys (and I'm always "that guy" who disagrees) I get attacked and scolded for my opposing views.  :o

So what is up? Why can nobody here just except I think differently and  politely disagree?

Quotes like the ones below are what I mean:

Why are you fans so hard to please?

Seriously, you're getting all worked up over something so small.

Seriously?! You too Magmar? The only thing you people know about the game so far is its graphics for christ sake! >:(

I can't believe you're all being so judgmental simply because the game is cell shaded. Now you're trying to say that because of the way the trailer looked that it could be the worst Zelda game of all time? Seriously, it's really disturbing to know that this is what gamers are becoming.

Then I guess Zelda was doomed from the start.

For the love of God.

Reading the whining in this topic just fills me with rage.

Ugh, reading this topic was so painful I had to stop. I mean literally, it hurt my heart. It made me impossibly sad. Why do people feel the need to form opinions before they've even tried something for themselves? I can understand fans being excited for the game and having positive opinions just because they're fans, but how can you form a negative opinion on something you haven't tried for yourself yet?

[...]

OK so that's it. Now to avoid this topic completely so that I can pretend that everyone will be in agreement with me and I can be happy with the members of this site.

---------------------------------------------------


That last one in particular disturbed me the most. Really? Even KP?! That last line in particular actually. You can't be happy with the members on the site just because one person disagrees with everybody else?!



Bottom line is this:

My opinions are different. I dearly apologize if it sickens you, makes you worry about "today's generation of gamers", or hurts your very heart. But guess what? It's an opinion.

Let me restate a specific part of KP's quote:

Why do people feel the need to form opinions before they've even tried something for themselves?

Because that's what opinions are for! They're personal gatherings based upon given evidence. How a person interprets something. It's called a first impression and IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE!

An  opinion  is  not  a  fact, because  opinions  are  either  not  falsifiable, or  the  opinion  has  not  been  proven  or  verified. If  it  later  becomes   proven  or  verified,  it  is  no  longer  an  opinion,  but  a  fact.  

I think it's safe to say the debate of whether or not SS (insert obligatory, distasteful German WWII joke here) turns out to be a good game or not can be widely excepted as fact (in a sense).

As I've said many times, I hope I eat my words and it turns out to be a wonderful game. Hell, I'm already starting to like it more. But I hold my judgment and keep my opinion until the game's release.  

Hmmm... looking back I should have posted this in the "Come here if you're stressed and need to scream" topic.  ;)

NOTE: I apologize if this offends people and/or starts a flame war, but I was very offended in the first place, which is what this topic's about. I apologize for being a french-for-shower bag (look it up ::) ) but given the situation, there was a bit of a warrant for that.



tl;dr GAH! GO BACK AND READ IT ALL!!!  >:(

[kamakaziplumber]

I believe I can answer your question with a simple fact: this is a Zelda fansite.

Most of us come here to escape the people we likely have to deal with every day of our lives, the naysayers who hate on Nintendo and will undoubtedly complain about much the same things you did regarding Skyward Sword. We come here to relax with our "kind," for lack of a better word.

Before I continue, I'd like to clarify that I don't doubt that you are a Zelda fan and I don't consider you any less of a Zelda fan for this.

I just think that it's frustrating for the rest of us when we feel we have to "convince" one of our own that an upcoming game is good. It's like I said in my post at the other topic, fanboys are expected to react happily and form positive opinions based on hardly anything. Most of us went to that topic to gush about SS, but instead found ourselves in the very arguments we probably come here to avoid.

Well OK, I feel like I'm assuming a lot here, so let me just point out that I'm speaking for myself despite using "we" a lot.

You're entitled to your negative opinions, but I'm just tired of that kind of stuff. You've seen screenshots and simple video, that's it. You can be disappointed if you like, but why here? Essentially, it ruins our fun when we have to defend ourselves and our opinions, which we probably hoped would just be accepted because of the fanboy law I stated above. Your opinions aren't any less valid than ours, but they're just a bit more... frustrating. That's all. I would just prefer to pretend they don't exist here because they're the reason I generally avoid places like /v/ and Kotaku comments (to explain that one thing you quoted me on, anyways).

Also I think it's silly that you think I was upset because just you disagreed, even as you quoted DW as agreeing with you just a few lines up.

I'm going to end on this note, and I hope you'll sympathize with me a bit more because it has nothing to do with being a fan:

I hope to be a game developer one day, I really do. I'm working on it already in college. I even already developed a (pretty terrible) RTS with a team of friends this past Spring semester. Speaking from that point of view, I think it's pretty insulting for you to be doubting that an entire game can be good based on a few preliminary screenshots and videos. Wait until you can play it yourself, please, for the developers' sakes. They're working hard on this game, you know they are; they're Nintendo devs. And worst of all, you're a fan. If the devs can't count on their established fans to get behind their work, then what hope do they have? They won't quit or anything drastic because just one fan disagrees with what they're doing, sure. But I know that if I were developing a game, and I read about even just one of my fans having negative opinions about the game I was working hard to make great before it's even had a chance, I'd be pretty sad.

So that's where I stand. I don't think anyone meant to offend you at all. I certainly did not mean to then, and I do not mean to now. But I think this can generally explain why we reacted the way we did...

[HylianHero92]

[Big long post]

Thank you, very much, for explaining to me in a civil manner.

*lowers flame shield*

I still disagree though. As you said in your first sentence, this is a Zelda fansite. A Zelda forum actually. Forums, according to my memory, are a place in which to discuss the relevant theme and, on occasion, debate things. It is not, again according to my memory, a place in which people repeatedly chant the exact same views that are shared by every person there.

The very fact that you're all out to "convince one of your own" is disturbing. If, as you say, I'm entitled to my opinion, why am I not allowed to keep it?

Is it out of loyalty to Nintendo that all Nintendo fanyboys/girls attack anybody who doesn't agree with them? Do you fanyboys/girls realize that Nintendo has stabbed you in the back at nearly every opportunity? Why is it that you feel so loyal to them? I honestly don't understand it!

Go on any game blog or forum and you'll always see a huge flame war started because somebody doubts their precious Nintendo. It honestly disturbs me.

And to respond to your being insulted, you have the wrong idea. As I detailed in great length in my original post above, it was my first impression. My "snap judgment" if you will. And once more, I'd like to point out it is SUBJECT TO CHANGE! Once more content, footage, etc. is released, I'll most likely get excited. Well... that's the hope anyways.   

The fact of the matter is, in recent months, I've played a lot of games I missed out on because I was laying on the ground letting Nintendo pee on my face and throwing money at them (metaphorically, that is). In playing these games, such as Mass Effect (1+2), Portal, etc., I've realized what Nintendo is doing and it makes me sick. As I've posted in the SS topic (and I'm now getting off topic here), if you look back at this year's press conference, Nintendo didn't have a single original title to offer. NOT ONE. How does that not raise a red flag for you guys?!     :o

[kamakaziplumber]

Our first reaction is defense. That should be disturbing to you. I, for one, have learned just to avoid other places on the internet because I'm tired of having to fight to point out that I'm not someone who lets himself get "stabbed in the back" or "pee'd on," as you so delicately put it.

I played Mass Effect at launch. I bought ME2 and I still haven't played it. I played Half Life 2, Episode 1, Episode 2, TF2 and Portal soon after they came out, for PC. I own an Xbox and regularly purchase or rent the latest games for it. I have experienced every genre of gaming in this current generation of consoles, and enjoyed myself quite a lot on my Xbox. And yet I don't feel that Nintendo has ever stabbed me in the back. In fact, they've kept me quite happy and pretty glad I waiting 18 hours in line for my Wii at launch.

Whatever your opinion is can be your opinion, but your imagery and language in this last post seriously upsets me and I am personally insulted that you think of me as some kind of subservient beast to Nintendo's every whim.

Nintendo has had a ton of shovelware on its Wii, I would never deny that. But nearly every single first party Nintendo game on the Wii has been great. So they had two Wii Fit games and a couple of basically free Wii Sports games. Those games were developed for the people who own them. Not once has Nintendo tried to shove either game down my neck. Instead they've said, "Here, have some more Super Mario Galaxy," which I accepted with a smile.

The fact that Nintendo brought back a ton of its old IPs at this year's E3 does not raise a red flag. If anything they're proving that they're willing to focus on classic series for their hardcore fans, as I already said in the SS topic. Besides, can you really claim that Kid Icarus isn't a new title just because they made ONE OTHER ONE on the NES? Nintendo is finally returning to its roots and guaranteeing a slew of great Nintendo titles for the next year, and yet you're still disappointed? Nintendo has never been known for making too many "new" series, live with it. At least most of the ones they're reviving now haven't been done in a few years.

And yes, this is a Zelda forum, and it is meant for discussion. But we debate about the timeline, or various theories, or which Zelda game is the best/worst. The one thing we generally agree on is that Zelda is great, and we're here to share in the excitement for a new game. You're raining on our parade, and no one is going to win in that situation.

This whole debacle is a result of people not having manners on the internet. If you were invited to someone's home to watch the World Cup, would you show up just to complain about how inferior soccer is to American football if you felt that way? No, because it would be incredibly rude. Think about the company you're in and think before you type, and everyone will be happier. No one would be trying to "convince" you if you hadn't come in and posted how disappointed you were by a few screenshots, and you could be happy with your opinions even if it meant a short and sweet retort like DW's. The rest of us are here to be excited and discuss the new game with said excitement.

[HylianHero92]

[...]

Okay ???

I'm sorry, that was extremely rude of me, or at least the way I put it. I've been trying to be civil but when get upset I tend to take the offensive, so I apologize for my gross imagery, bad analogies, etc.

Still though, since it's rather late and I don't feel like restating the point yet again, I'll sum it up in a few short paragraphs.

If you want to discuss how much the new Zelda is your every hope and dream, more power to you. But nobody seems to realize that, while you repeatedly say how wonderful it is and how I'm so wrong and sick for not thinking so, by the same token the only thing everybody else has to base it on is the Zelda label applied to it by default.

If the company I'm in doesn't want to hear what I have to say, I humbly take my leave.

It was a good run and I enjoyed the majority of it. But for quite some time now I've had different views and they just aren't appreciated here. I apologize for those who were civil. But to the majority of you, please, please try to realize that I have not and still do not receive any respect from you. We had a few laughs, discussed things that, for the most part, were silly and had no bearing whatsoever on the Zelda series or our lives (such as the timeline; who cares?). I'm sorry to those who actually like me that I had to leave like this, but this just isn't my thing. Maybe I'll come back once Skyward Sword turns out to be great and intuitive (which is the hope). Maybe not. I sincerely wish that you all have good, fulfilling lifetimes and succeed.

And with that, so long.

HylianHero92

[kamakaziplumber]

Can't say I wasn't expecting that.

If you sincerely feel that your opinions on other matters are not respected and what all you posted, then fine. I'd like to shed light on one last point you made in the hopes that maybe you'll read it and maybe change your mind, although I doubt you will because it's not much different from what I've been saying this whole time.

If you want to discuss how much the new Zelda is your every hope and dream, more power to you. But nobody seems to realize that, while you repeatedly say how wonderful it is and how I'm so wrong and sick for not thinking so, by the same token the only thing everybody else has to base it on is the Zelda label applied to it by default.

Ignoring the part where I can't remember anyone saying you were sick for having a different opinion, I'd like to reiterated something: this is a Zelda fansite. We are excited about the new Zelda because it's got the Zelda label, but that's not why we got all up in arms about your posts in the SS topic. It's because TDC and Zelda fansites everywhere are our sanctuaries. They are the few places where we can come and be collectively happy about our favorite series, and where we can interact together in peace and a relaxed environment, and where we should be able to go to avoid being called fanboys in a derisive manner. We're here because we're proud to be fanboys, and willing to gush about Zelda in ways most people can't understand. I don't think any of us appreciate the negative way you've used the word fanboy in this place. We don't have many places we can go, I think we deserve at least these fansites as a place where we can go to be happy and safe.

This is an environment where we should be free to be excited about SS for the Zelda label's sake. Don't take that away from us, not here.

[MagmarFire]

And with this, TDC loses a valued member...

I doubt you'll be reading this, but if I personally put you off from something I said, I apologize. If you still feel you need to take your leave, then I won't stop you; however, if you do read this, please take my apology with you and let peace be between us. :D

That said, I do hope you return when everything's all sorted out. But if not, I, too, wish you a happy life. Good luck, and godspeed.

[Hi no Seijin]

I really don't know what to say without feeling like a big jerk, so perhaps it's best I say nothing at all.  However, I would like to say that I agree with KP, and I would like to offer my apologies alongside MagmarFire.

[Mysterious F.]

I do say that you weren't forming an opinion, you were forming expectations. What is wrong with that? I form expectations that disagree with the majority a lot (Example: I expect Scott Pilgrim vs. the World to be awful.) but being expectations, they are meaningless to all but the one who made them.

[Pale Dim]

Wait, just like that? You left on us? WHAT THE HECK!

You could have at least ranted at me through a pm for heaven's sake! Jeeze, I'll listen (or read) anyone's rants! ESPECIALLY YOURS.

You were one of my closest friends here. I can't believe it. And now you just...I don't know, disappeared, without even letting me know! And now I'm crying while I type this, because I feel like I've died a little inside. Every time someone leaves and their account is deleted, I feel like there's been a death in the family. GOD.

If all else, if you don't care to read any of the above (whether or not you return), just remember that I'll always be thinking about you, and how much of a dear friend you were to me. Good bye, my son.

[MagmarFire]

If you want, I can give you his e-mail address so you can stay in touch.