Education Topic

[MagmarFire]

We will continue it here; we need not lock Whocares's topic.

Let me draw the line again from skills that are general and specific. You do not seem to understand, (or are arguing for the sake of arguing) against an intersection of subjects. Every skill has a use, some skills are specific, applying to a certain discipline. Other skills are general, meaning that they are everyday skills. Still other skills are general-specific, in that they have applications in many disciplines, though not by all. Writing a Research paper is one example of a skill that you will need to go through college. If you choose a career in the sciences or in the humanities, you will likely need to do research for your discipline. Please understand the distinction and difference between the things I just said.

Again, I must ask: why are people made to learn all these skills, even when some have little to no relation to the disciplines they want to learn? Not all disciplines use the same skills.

Maybe there is something I'm just not getting, or maybe there's something that I'm not saying correctly. Could be that there's a reason as to why you didn't answer my specific question as to when you're going to use individual facts like the Krebs cycle steps in a secretarial position, so maybe there is something wrong with me.

Arguing for the sake of arguing... Is it because I'm trying to provide counterpoints in unorthodox ways? Or is it because that's what all debates are?

I meant a K-through-twelve school. Try again.

Dude... There aren't that many K through 12 schools. If I cite an example of a public school that is successful, you should accept it rather than write it off from criteria that most schools do not even meet.

So "Such and Such" Elementary School, Middle School, and High School are three totally different schools? That's more of what I meant--grades K through twelve. How do they prepare you with those skills? And you assume that I'm not going to accept your answer and that I'm not asking because I'm curious of your input and of what actually goes on in the system.

Then what about having their parents teach them some of the required skills, then, hm? I'm quite sure that their parents, provided that they're successful in the workplace, as many are, would be perfectly capable of teaching their young ones about how to act professionally in a work setting or about any of the complex skills you mention here and there. If they need them to be successful, then is it really that implausible that they can't pass it on, at least in part, to the next generation?

You think all parents will be equally successful and be equally aware and capable of what skills need to be taught? Some parents DO teach their little ones, and that is very good. But as it stands now, parents barely parent, hardly even restrain their children. Your premise assumes that one has parents that are successful. Not everyone is gifted with that.

"Parents barely parent"? What do you mean? Is that a general statement?

And the last statement may be true, and I did keep that in mind when I wrote my argument down, but how did those parents get where they are, then? They couldn't get there by failing to get there. However, I do see where you're coming from.

Does that mean, however, should we all relearn these skills when other people do not have them? Shouldn't they take the classes, then, not we?

Throughout this whole topic, you're putting words in my mouth, I suggest you stop. Did I say those who agree with you would be stupid? No I did not. Mind, you are very intelligent, but a lot of the counterpoints you make require there be specific prerequisites met.

Nor did I ever say that indigenous groups could not decide for themselves how they want to live, you're simply putting words in my mouth. But the case is, much of the world's population lives in either an industrialized country or a country that is becoming industrialized. China and India contain roughly a third of the world's population and the Chinese in particular have had to cope with a very strict government in relation to how they can live their life.

Okay, firstly, I'm stating from my point of view that you're implying these things, and I'm even asking you to correct me in the assumptions of those implications (you can't deny that I've told you to correct me at least once in this entire discussion). How is that putting words in your mouth? From what I see, those are two different things.

Secondly, you do appear to be implying those things without saying it, which is why I ask you to correct me if I'm wrong, which I obviously am. I'm just asking for a simple rewording of that statement so I see better what you actually meant. I even made it that clear, and I don't see any instance where you could think that I didn't ask that from you.

And speaking of putting words in one's mouth, I could probably argue that you do the same thing to me from time to time. This bull crap about my/Quinn's saying that "education should be halted after grade three," among other things, is not that much different from such. I also kept saying repeatedly that that isn't the case and that it's the system that's defective, but you appear to interpret it as "halting education," or that I think education should stop, or that I dislike learning, or what have you. That's just simply not the case. No, sir.

Does that sound like putting words in your mouth? If it does, how about you count up all the times I've said that you've misunderstood my position and how many times I've said that you have misunderstood my position in the past after saying again that you've misunderstood my position? (You don't really have to, but it has happened at least a couple times.)

Yeah, just so you know, I don't know how much longer I can keep this up. I still strongly hold by what I believe in, and I give you congratulations for doing it yourself for your own beliefs, but this is taking toll on me. I tell ya, this debate is something I do not look forward to when I log on.

Truce, please? I don't want this to begin to make me hate coming here.

[darkphantomime]

Some parents in our system didn't even get there at all. Some parents barely made it through High School, other parents were drop-outs. Still other parents became very successful, while still other kids have no parents.

This generation has especially gotten pretty rowdy. It's the complaint of many who have lived through previous generations that kids are no longer well-disciplined. What I mean by saying 'parents that don't parent' are parents that just let the TV do all the teaching, rather than actively interacting with their kids.

Some parents are head of a single parent household, and that one demographic has been skyrocketing as of late.

Could be that there's a reason as to why you didn't answer my specific question as to when you're going to use individual facts like the Krebs cycle steps in a secretarial position, so maybe there is something wrong with me.

I did answer your question, but in more general rather than specific terms, when i was talking and differentiating general and specific skills. Obviously the Krebs cycle wouldn't apply for a secretarial position, unless one was a secretary that engaged in that specfic subject.

I think you should also comment on the following

MEGAnova892 (9:17:16 PM): I go to a specialized high school in New York State, where the emphasis on reading and arithmetic is ridiculously high. I have, in my opinion, recieved a mediocre and inferior education in the arts. The Art class given to me in 6th and 7th grade and the Dance class given to me in 8th were utterly ridiculous, not to mention my music class barely had any music to hear.
MEGAnova892 (9:20:56 PM): So I feel like I was deprived. My skills in math and English are super high, and the workload is through the roof ridiculous. I would prefer if my school placd a heavier empasis on science and ther humanities. Not only do I find them more interestring, I find them more useful: having an adeqaute knowledge of art and musical history is essential to the advancement of our society, and no math or english could replace that.

MEGAnova892 (9:25:48 PM): I mean what the hell? Are you going to have grown men running around, not knowing a thing about chemistry or physics since they "don't need it?" It's called being well rounded and balanced. That's the goal. It's a Greco-Roman philosophy!

*sigh*

Magmarfire, think about what you're saying. School is meant to be the main place of learning. Sure some might see it as a chore, but others would be inspired to work. If they aren't exposed to it at school, how and where are they going to learn that it even exists? By having a well-rounded education, one is free to make the choice where one wants to go after one graduates from High School. What you are saying is basically "Eliminate Science! Eliminate the Arts! They can learn these things on their own!"

Children have to be exposed to these ideas and concepts. The main place to do this is at school. I found Public School to be very easy. Some might feel all of this is being shoved down their throat, but I assure you that it won't be the case for everyone.

Think about it. You're so upset that you learned specialized skills that aren't really geared to every application? You should pursue your interests. A child in grade school may only have a vague idea of what he or she is interested in.

I mean, sure there are problems with the  system, but the system requires dedicated and creative teachers with parents that are supportive in order to REALLY work. The school system isn't anywhere near as broken as you think it is. It is broken in some places though. But all it takes is a creative and inspiring teacher to make the difference in one's life.

[MagmarFire]

Ah, okay, then, for the most part. And I'm not saying to abolish the sciences, the arts, and...ah, screw it! I keep saying otherwise, but you keep saying that I'm saying otherwise!

I'm through. I can't keep this up. I don't think I have much else to say without repeating myself. Now it's just a matter of which contestant can stand the longest without blinking. Guess I'm glued to my beliefs, which are apparently...untrue, for lack of a better word. Maybe my way of life isn't "right."

You win, I lose, you get a cookie, and I can continue to toil.

[darkphantomime]

Maybe I should apologize for being so harsh...

But honestly you should try to have a little bit more faith in the system, it's not completely bad, though it's far from perfect. I just don't think your system would be a step-up.

So I'm sorry and I accept your...

Wait a minute, I already won this... WHOOHOO!

Ahem...

I apologize.

[MagmarFire]

Nah, you're fine. :P

Well, time will tell what happens in the end, but for now, it's just a bridge we have yet to cross.

Boy, am I glad the conflict has ended!

[Hi no Seijin]

Soooo....

Are you going to lock this, talk about some other serious issue, or can we spam this up?  Because I'm seriously tempted to start spamming this up if no one locks it or starts talking about some other issue.

[MagmarFire]

*points to "General Discussion"*

Yeah, I'll lock this.