Gerudos---Twili? SPOILER

[Potato_King]

I agree with Eralk Fang; I think the Interlopers were not one race, but actually a collection of races. All we are told is that they had great magic power and tried to keep the Triforce for themselves. So possibly they were a cult that pracitced magic, and as they got bigger and more powerful others flocked to them to join, and they grew to the point where they could try to keep the Triforce.

About the Gerudo symbol, which one should we consider as canon? I know in the original OoT it was similar to the crescent moon and star in Islam, and because some of them were offended by this it was changed in the remakes. I don't see how its offensive, much like how I don't see Christmas is offensive to other religions (if you don't agree with it don't celebrate it...) but that's a whole different topic! XD The newer Gerudo symbol reminds me of Majora's Mask, but I doubt there is any actual connection.

Another thing to note is we are never told (to my knowledge) how long it was between the creation of the world and the Great War. All we know is they had developed the technology of iron swords, so it had to be a good few thousand years after the races became aware of their own existance (looking to our own history as a reference point). And I don't believe that the Gerudo are a separate race like Gorons or Zoras, merely a variation of Hylians. The only difference seems to be the colour, and we have people of many different colours in our world but they're all still human. Possibly a tribe of Hylians (calling themselves Gerudo) created the Temples and things with that symbol in, then were defeated in the early Great War and retreated the eastern deserts.

Just a theory of course, but then that's what this whole forum is about! ;P

[LadyNintendo]

No human race gets only one male child every hundred years. Gerudo are different in more ways than just their skin. (ps, despite that, I also think "Humans", Hylians and Gerudos are pretty much the same)

About the Gerudo symbol, I never played the N64 version of OOT (well, just a little, but that doesn't count). Was the Moon and Star symbol on the blocks in the N64 version too? If that's the case, we can just consider both Gerudo symbols the same thing as it really doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure that Nintendo didn't put the new Gerudo symbol on Zant's clothes without knowing the symbol's history.

So you are saying Rauru is related to the Gerudo?

[Eralk Fang]

LadyNintendo, the crescent and moon were on the blocks as well in the version with that symbol.

I think the second should be considered canon. As for the races, I think the Gerudo, Humans, and Hylians are similar, as they are the humanoid races. Technically, I'd call the Zora, Gorons, and other non-humanoid races different species, while the humanoid races are just different at a little more then face value. The humanoid races can obviously interbreed, so they're really just different variations on a theme. But I don't think a group of Hylians became the Gerudo. I think all the humanoids (Sheikah included, if they're not just Hylians, but that's another idea for another time) were basically the same at some point, and over time just developed into the variety of humanoids we see now in the game.

I just have a problem seeing the Gerudo as a splinter group of Hylians or any race that just went to the desert to hide. I think they would have to be almost too radically different to suddenly develop the Gerudo culture...

And while it would be awesome to see a Gerudo King that's not, you know, completely and utterly evil, I don't think Rauru is Gerudo.

[Knil]

But the thing is though, you could say the Gorons and the Zora, are humanoids with more extreme differences.  You can also say humanoids can be humanoids, but not the same race.  If you take away the Gorons' rock like appearance, they would look exactly like a human.  Zoras are a bit harder though.  They have fish fins and a fish tail on their head.  That's about it.  If you said Zora weren't humanoid then you say that the Rito aren't humanoid.  Zora and Rito do have similar qualities, but I don't believe the Zora turned into the Rito, but as I have read from this site, people think the Rito can interbreed with Hylians/Hyruleans/Humans/Sheikah.  I think the Sheikah are just a group that protects the royal family.

[Eralk Fang]

To clarify, the humanoids would be analogous to the human species in the real world, and the different races the exact same thing as they are in the real world. I use the word humanoid instead of human since there is a humanoid race designated as the humans.

I'm basing that separation on the ability to interbreed with one another (I sound so clinical!). Most Gerudo mate with Hylians and humans and produce offspring. A Goron can't interbreed with the humanoid races I defined, and a Zora can't do so, as a rock and fish can't mate with a human.

I don't think there's just a human-like thing if you took away the most prominent features of each species. Gorons have to be extremely different from humanoids if they can only survive on minerals and don't even have to breathe (the Goron in the rock in Twilight Princess). Zora are just as different. There's even natural variety among the Zora- the Zora with the hammerhead (Ruto and her second pair of eyes) and the run-of-the-mill Zora (like Rutela, Mikau, etc).

The Rito are tougher to explain. It would not surprise me if they were a different race instead of a different species.

As for the Sheikah, I think they're a group of Hylians designated to protect the Royal Family that eventually grew into a tribe and race.

[LadyNintendo]

A Goron can't interbreed with the humanoid races I defined, and a Zora can't do so, as a rocks and fish can't mate with a human.

I don't think there's just a human-like thing if you took away the most prominent features of each species. Gorons have to be extremely different from humanoids if they can only survive on minerals and don't even have to breathe (the Goron in the rock in Twilight Princess). Zora are just as different. There's even natural variety among the Zora- the Zora with the hammerhead (Ruto and her second pair of eyes) and the run-of-the-mill Zora (like Rutela, Mikau, etc).

And a human and bird could mate? Because they can according to TWW. Then why wouldn't a fish and a human be able to? Zoras and Hylians appear to be attracted to eachother on various occasions (Ruto and Link, Mikau (Zora Link) and that blue haired girl from one of the games in Clocktown, Beth and Ralis) and they can be related through Ritos. Also, it seems to me that Ruto's head is just different from the standard model's head, like your face doesn't look like mine. After all, Majora's Mask really showed the huge differences there can be among Zora-looks (Tijo in particular).

[Paul]

I read everyone say "Humanoid this" and "Humanoid that" but what does the word humanoid mean?

The term "humanoid" refers to any being whose body structure resembles that of a human. In this sense, the term indeed describes primates, as well as mythological creatures and artificial organisms (robots). (Wikipedia, cross-reffered with the german Wikipedia)

Thus Hylian, Zora, Goron, Shiekah, Rito, Gerudo and Kokiri are all humanoid (they've got two arms and two legs). But that doesn't mean they can interbreed. We only know that Gerudo can interbreed with Hylians and still they get only females (except the once a century male). My theory is that the Hylians and the Gerudo (and possibly the Shiekah) have the same ancestor species. (Human?) Evolutions grasp on the species wasn't strong enough to prevent interbreeding of Hylian and Gerudo, but strong enough for this (albeit odd) birth regulation.

(PS: I wish I was that Gerudo male  )

[Eralk Fang]

I'm just trying to make the distinction that Gerudos, Hylians, humans, and Sheikah are basically the same species, with natural variation.

Paul, I'm using the word "humanoid" where you and I would use "human" if we were talking about the different races of humanity in reality. I'm not using human, because we do have humans as a set race different from the others in the games. I should find a better word for it.

LadyNintendo, as for the Zora, you make a good argument. We haven't seen any Zora-Hylian crossbreeds, but perhaps that's how Rito came about? If you think the Zora were the starting point for the Rito, they could have come to look more human through interbreeding with Hylians and humans.

I think Ruto doesn't have just a different face, like Japas and Mikau have different faces. She's got a second pair of eyes and has no head-fin, which, I think, is a little different than a variation on facial features. Model-wise, it was just to separate her from the other Zora. There's a good deal of natural variation among the Zora, including the Zora from Majora's Mask, who ostensibly have Hyrulean counterparts.

[LadyNintendo]

Paul> It is never stated that Grudo give birth to only one male every century. It is stated they only give birth to one MALE GERUDO every century. Considering Talon's odd quote, Malon may very well have a Gerudo mommie. And remember blue-shirt-laughing guy in Hyrule Castle Town? He at first thinks Link wearing the Gerudo Mask is his mom.  

EF> Raah!, internet doesn't have any good pics. Still, I don't remember (will check soon, promised) Tijo having head-fins either. But even if he has, who says it's common among Zoras? Tijo's whole appearance is different (manta like) and King Zora has froglooks. For all we know, lots of Zoras have no fins. Just because one model, used for everyone without importance, has it and has become the standard look for Zoras, doesn't mean they in "reality" indeed all have head-fins. I'm not sure, but I don't think we know if Rutela had one. Also, looking at the variety of head-fins and other fins on the head, I'm pretty sure there's no evidence Ruto is different in a special way. I'm not commenting on the eyes. Untill today, I never knew what people were talking about. Since they look more like jewels or something in the artwork, I want to check what they look like in-game.

[Paul]

Gerudo give birth to only one male every 100 years. That said there is nothing wrong, because I was talking about Gerudo so by stating male like that it is a scientific agreement that male of the same species is ment.

[Commodore Axilon]

Excuse me, LadyNintendo, why do you think that Hylians and Rito can interbreed? I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't recall that being stated anywhere.

[Eralk Fang]

LadyNitendo, I think we're in agreement about the natural variation of the Zora- I'm not saying Ruto's a special kind of Zora, merely that she just shows natural variation, as do the others you've mentioned. I've got enough old N64 Zelda guides to choke a horse- I'll scan you a shot of Ruto and Lulu.

[LadyNintendo]

Thanks.

CA > There's no eveidence for that. However, there's evidence it's a possiblity. I told you about Koboli - Postman/Running Man before. About the Zora-Rito thing, it's only possible they are related, allthough I think they are. This gives the following possibilities:
* Ritos, Zoras and Hylians can breed with eachother.
* Zoras and Hylians can breed and those became the Ritos.
* Hylians evolved in Ritos and somewhere along the way became capable of breeding with Zoras.
* Zoras evolved in Ritos and somewhere along the way became capable of breeding with Hylians.
* Something magical happened at some point and (either) Medli's or Koboli's bloodline(s) was(/were) added to that of the Ritos.

I, ofcourse, go for option nr. 1. If only because I know those thousand years or something between OOT and TWW is not enough to evolve so radically. I despise any explanation involving magic, because it's so damn cheap. I believe the Ritos already existed during OOT and long before that.
I just told why I don't believe options nr 2, 3 and 4.
Option nr 5., despite my hatred for vague magic-explanations, is a nice one actually. A whole race/tribe changing is weird, but we know there are transformation options in TLOZ. It is possible that Medli's and Koboli's bloodlines became part of the Ritos, because their responsible ancestors wore masks or rings to be with their partner.

[Commodore Axilon]

Do we really know Koboli is a Rito? I looked at his figurine and it said, "Birthplace: Windfall Island." Hmm, that sounds familiar doesn't it? Oh yes, the two Bird Man Contest runners were from Windfall Island, and we already know they're not really Rito. All the other Rito's say they were born on Dragonroost. I suppose it's still possible he's a Rito, but I don't think so.

[xarlote]

лучш360.1глазBettGranWierAdveвосьМакаЛаврKillШвейstop0759ЛитеOrieTemaRondKickМаркГлиноднаRoja
ИзбрAutoItalучилBrilSourLacaжизнMargVinoкандПередисцсертCreoEmilPalmJeanрепрGlorкаче(184Home
SplaПешкКасаМонеJohnKareКирп(пбяRobeСамаgradнатуБланАртеЕмцедатиVIIIЦветКнязAndrМихаКустRece
CollсертгражHTMLразнHenrXIIIДобристоRaveBeyoHeroEmpiFuxiДичеСтелVictцветМаврJaneразнWindВоев
3000Ткачменясере01-2газеAlesСодеФролпредChriMargЦзянJeffSonyMiniShaaАртиXVIIThomDanzБогрConc
NERVWindхороTRASклейтрадToshINTEWindTrumBookКитаCZ13АртиJardTang16089029MAGNСпаркотоПатоBaro
МаксRIVEDecoхудокамнэлемкорзДворmpegWindFairJanoChouсертDarlПравЛитвXVIIЛитРReveДворЛитРСеро
ЛитРПичегороСодеЯрынкурсEsseШиллустрМаджАлекРазуСлюс1963семьКузнОдеграбоЖураImagRichОдегBonu
СтепСидоБузоЛопаИванвозрЕрмоТульГорбздорLarsAlekЭрлиЛириЧукоБелоребединоШайхДугисовеTRASTRAS
TRASКротВозрКарчEdmuСказламиЧипуErnsГольInteDennEachtuchkasАлпенебл