Tingle

[LadyNintendo]

Because unlike Hyrule, Termina is completely unknown territory to Link; for which he couldn't have acquired a map prior to his adventure.

[MagmarFire]

I actually like the idea of buying maps in MM; it gives me something to look forward to to buy. I guess I like the idea of spending money when I know that it's easy to get it back. Anyway, Iron Knuckle, I don't see why you have to hate Tingle just because he charges money for stuff. It's not an abomination; people do it all the time. If you hate him for selling maps, then you might as well hate Beedle or any other shopkeeper because THEY sell things for money.

Seriously, what's the point of even HAVING Rupees in the game if you're not going to use them? Just face it: Not everything is going to be free. It's a part of life, including gaming. So live with with it, eat with it, sleep with it, and move along with it.

[IronKnuckle]

There is a diffrence.
Its logical to have to pay for bombs or hearts.
However, in OOT, as soon as you walk into an area, bam, theres a map at the corner of your screen free of charge. However in MM, you have to pay 20 rupees to get that map that was free in the previous game.

[MagmarFire]

Wow. Twenty Rupees. Very expensive...

Say, if it's illogical that maps are sold for money when you could've gotten them for free, then it should be illogical to buy bombs and hearts as well. Why? You can get them for free in the wild.

And the maps you get for "free" in OoT aren't, in reality, free. Sure, you don't have to pay money for them, but you have to enter the area in order to get the map for "free." Doesn't that take work, too? So does getting Rupees. The way I see it, the cost is just expressed differently.

[Vaati]

Hm, this whole talk of Tingle and maps reminds me of a part from the Legend of Link (Zelda Fan Movie)
Tingle: The Lost woods is a scaaarey place, Mr. Fairy. You'll need a map. A MAP!!! (Sobs) Daddy says I'm not an artist.

[LadyNintendo]

Iron Knuckle is right on this though. It indeed is unlogical you have to pay for a map in one game, but in the other it is free.

That said, so many rules change within TLOZ games. One time, Great Fairies just appear when you enter their shrine/spring etc. Other times, you have to do something else as well. Is it logical that in one game, enemy x looks like (fill in) and in another game looks like (fill in), not to mention the method to defeat it is completely changed/ Is it logical that the hookshot in all games reaches as far as you'll ever need, but in one game, it's too short and you need the longshot instead? Is it logical that the TOT is located in HCT in one game, and in the LW in another? Is it logical that you have magic in one game, but not in the other? Is it logical that in one game, enemies drop items, while they don't do that in another?

Nintendo just change the rules a bit if they think that works best. That's how it works. 20 Rupees is nothing and whatever Tingle asks in TWW, that's nothing either, compared to what you can get in that game.

I wanted to say something else as well, but I won't because I don't want to spoil FPTRR for those who haven't played it yet. Let's just say that anyone who "dislikes/hates" Tingle for the money he asks for his services, should take a good look at themselves as well.

[Commodore Axilon]

Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland's canonicity (?!) is dubious at best.

And besides, that only happens when he goes broke, right? Everyone else in Hyrule somehow manages to make a living without filing for bankruptcy while charging reasonable prices, so that's a moot point.

[DW]

Yes, but the amount of customers he gets is drastically low.

[LadyNintendo]

Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland's canonicity (?!) is dubious at best.

I'm going to guess two things. 1.) You "don't like " Tingle. 2.) You haven't played FPTRR.

How come FPTRR's canonicity is "dubious" at best? Because it doesn't have "The Legend of Zelda" in front of it or features Link as the main character? FPTRR may have a different hero, name and gameplay, but it's true to the universe of TLOZ.

And besides, that only happens when he goes broke, right? Everyone else in Hyrule somehow manages to make a living without filing for bankruptcy while charging reasonable prices, so that's a moot point.

The nice thing about rupees only being your way of paying for things is that bankruptcy is not the biggest disaster you could possibly face. If they are your life as well, you're definetely not going to be that easy with money. Just try to imagine that you would buy stuff with your health. You enter the store being a healthy person and leave again without an immune system.

I don't see how Tingle charges unreasonable prices. Admitted, he could have given a discount considering how often you come dragging along a new map to decipher, but that's about it. Compared to how much you, without any extra effort, could have by the time this part of the game kicks in, he doesn't charge much.

[Commodore Axilon]

Yes, but the amount of customers he gets is drastically low.

And this is supported by...what exactly? The dude is a cartographer in a society living entirely at sea, he should be raking in the dough. And this seems to be supported by the fact that he can afford his own island, a giant tower upon said island, five golden statues of himself, and technology far beyond that of the society around him (the Tingle Tuner).

I'm going to guess two things. 1.) You "don't like " Tingle.

And? I don't like a lot of things, but it doesn't make me some sort of biased, foaming-at-the-mouth ideologue who can't accept evidence when it conflicts with my own opinions.

2.) You haven't played FPTRR.

This is true, but hardly relevant.

How come FPTRR's canonicity is "dubious" at best? Because it doesn't have "The Legend of Zelda" in front of it or features Link as the main character?

Uh, no? Though it's nice to see such a well constructed strawman nowadays. I applaud your craftsmanship.

FPTRR may have a different hero, name and gameplay, but it's true to the universe of TLOZ.

I could certainly accept it's canonicity...if this Tingle were entirely separate from the others. Now is this a tenable compromise, or does FPTRR directly imply all the Tingles are the same? Because otherwise it doesn't really fit anywhere into Tingle's established history set forth in the other games.

The nice thing about rupees only being your way of paying for things is that bankruptcy is not the biggest disaster you could possibly face. If they are your life as well, you're definetely not going to be that easy with money. Just try to imagine that you would buy stuff with your health. You enter the store being a healthy person and leave again without an immune system.

Is this really how it works? I thought he was perfectly fine until he hit the red and then he keeled over.

I don't see how Tingle charges unreasonable prices. Admitted, he could have given a discount considering how often you come dragging along a new map to decipher, but that's about it. Compared to how much you, without any extra effort, could have by the time this part of the game kicks in, he doesn't charge much.

Well, that's really all a matter of opinion, now isn't it?

[DW]

I could certainly accept it's canonicity...if this Tingle were entirely separate from the others. Now is this a tenable compromise, or does FPTRR directly imply all the Tingles are the same? Because otherwise it doesn't really fit anywhere into Tingle's established history set forth in the other games.

That's a mystery, isn't it? Tingle hasn't been fully explained to us..for all we know, he could be immortal.

And this is supported by...what exactly? The dude is a cartographer in a society living entirely at sea, he should be raking in the dough.

Yes, but he only charges for the Triforce charts, which are only eight. the rest of the charts you don't need to have deciphered. and, oddly enough, you don't see many other ships at sea besides Pirates and Beedle. As for the tower, he stole that from Knuckle, his brother, I believe. The statues might not even be his, but he looks so much like his brother that you can't tell.

[Commodore Axilon]

Yes, but he only charges for the Triforce charts, which are only eight. the rest of the charts you don't need to have deciphered. and, oddly enough, you don't see many other ships at sea besides Pirates and Beedle.

These are all game mechanics, though. Realistically the world as it is presented in the game would never be able to function. Certain elements were obviously excluded due to gameplay purposes.

As for the tower, he stole that from Knuckle, his brother, I believe. The statues might not even be his, but he looks so much like his brother that you can't tell.

Those are fair points, but that begs the question of why Knuckle would have all this spare cash and Tingle wouldn't.

[DW]

Well, Knuckle appears to be a good businessman. When you mess around with the Tingle Tuner, you can eventually get him to sell you stuff cheaper. That offers some clue as to his wealth, selling general supplies, whereas Tingle takes up a rarer and more unique trade, with consequently higher prices.

[LadyNintendo]

And this is supported by...what exactly? The dude is a cartographer in a society living entirely at sea, he should be raking in the dough. And this seems to be supported by the fact that he can afford his own island, a giant tower upon said island, five golden statues of himself, and technology far beyond that of the society around him (the Tingle Tuner).

Afford his own island? The great sea is full of islands even bigger than his. All you have to do is pick one you like, build a house and done. The Tingle Tower is not made (or paid) by Tingle, but by Knuckle. Knuckle is an artist, and if I remember correctly, he uses the lower section as atelier. As for the five statues, they are not Tingle's, but Knuckle's. He made five statues of Tingle, but they aren't Tingle's as far as I remember.I have absolutely no clue about the Tingle Tuner; who made it or how he got it, so I can't say anything about that.

I'm going to guess two things. 1.) You "don't like " Tingle.

And? I don't like a lot of things, but it doesn't make me some sort of biased, foaming-at-the-mouth ideologue who can't accept evidence when it conflicts with my own opinions.

2.) You haven't played FPTRR.

This is true, but hardly relevant.

Those two points were meant to be read together. I was pointing out your ignorance of what FPTRR is like (if you'd have played the game, I doubt you would have used the word "dubious", and certainly not in this context) and a possible slight bit of prejudice. Hence the next part of my post. Actually, the fact you started by saying FPTRR is dubious at best, obviously without knowing anything about it, doesn't make it a crime I assumed prejudice. If you would've asked about FPTRR's canonicity, rather than somewhat directly reject it, I would've replied in a completely different way. If you want, I could explain the game's story and such via pm, so that you can truly decide for yourself whether you consider it canon or not.

Uh, no? Though it's nice to see such a well constructed strawman nowadays. I applaud your craftsmanship.

Riiiiiight. So WHAT is your problem with FPTRR then? That it wasn't "developed" by Nintendo? Because that's pretty much where the arguments against FPTRR's canonicity end. I only pointed out two of the possible three arguments I could come up with that anyone could have against FPTRR's canonicity. If there's another one, why don't you prove the strawman by coming up with better, true arguments?

FPTRR may have a different hero, name and gameplay, but it's true to the universe of TLOZ.

I could certainly accept it's canonicity...if this Tingle were entirely separate from the others. Now is this a tenable compromise, or does FPTRR directly imply all the Tingles are the same? Because otherwise it doesn't really fit anywhere into Tingle's established history set forth in the other games.

I can't truly answer this question, because FPTRR doesn't make 100% clear statements. It would require some discussion, but since it seems I'm the only one who played it (yet), that would be a rather poor discussion. What I can say is that the game somewhat implies that there are two kinds of Tingles: "The" Tingle (as a person) and "A" Tingle (as a state of being). FPTRR does not state whether its main character is a Tingle or the Tingle. It might imply that a certain personality is destined to become a Tingle to form the Tingle (oh boy, this is coming out way more complicated than it is).

FPTRR does not state that this (talking about the person-version) Tingle's story is true to all Tingles. However, ALL, and I truly mean all, established aspects of Tingle are mentioned and somewhat explained. His obsession with Fairies, his job as a cartographer, his outfit, his desire for rupees. Okay, so maybe the balloon and the Tingle Tuner aren't explained, but they seem to be possessions that run in the family (seriously, the sudden appearance of Tingle's uncle didn't make things easier to understand). Though, my opinion on this matter is that Link is no different. While he is never the same person, all Links do have similar personalities, traits and face remarkably similar challenges so that overall, they are comparable.

Is this really how it works? I thought he was perfectly fine until he hit the red and then he keeled over.

Well, FPTRR doesn't allow suicide in such situations. You can never die by paying for something, because the game doesn't allow you to spend all your money on something. However, leaving with only one rupee left isn't that different from suicide. One fight, one trap, and he's dead, not to mention that awful "low health"-beeping that already got on my nerves in the TLOZ games. I don't think the exact comparision is that important though. Main point is: if a minimum of, say, 100 *random currency* in your wallet would be your full health, wouldn't you try to stay far above that amount?

That's a mystery, isn't it? Tingle hasn't been fully explained to us..for all we know, he could be immortal

I doubt it, due to the reference to an older Tingle is TWW, the reference to an older Tingle in FPTRR and the ever changing family of Tingle.

[Vaati]

Let's just put it at this; some people have their reasons to hate/not like Tingle. It is their opinion, and they are entitled to it.
Those who like/don't mind Tingle also have their reasons and their opinions.