Where does TP fit it the timeline? tell me what you think! Might contain spoiler

[Eralk Fang]

Oh, I think there's a few, Evahn, but the easiest one to find is the Triforce piece on the green banner on Link's house. If you look up close, it is split into eight pieces.

[Evilslayer]

THIS POST WILL HAVE TWILIGHT PRINCESS SPOILERS!!


It could also be the Triforce of Wisdom, placing LoZ before OoT. And yes, that is possible. As for my placing of TP, I put it somewhere between FSA and ALttP. I also now believe that the Seal War is not in the OoT era, and hence the 'execution' of Ganon has nothing to do with OoT.

I believe that the way the Gerudo treats Ganon in FSA may be a reference to what he did in OoT (not directly; my theory is that after that whole incident the Gerudo have been more mistrusting of their king), and some time later they left their desert, or maybe just disappeared. It's possible that certain Hylians in TP have Gerudo blood in their veins.

Anyway, in my current timeline theory Ganon eventually breaks loose from the Four Sword. I cannot guess what happens next, but at one point he's leading a group of thieves (some may have Gerudo blood) who seeks dominion over the Golden Land. He succeeds, and attacks Hyrule Castle with an evil army.

The Ancient Sages seals the 'source of evil', and Ganon is cast down and brought to the Mirror Chamber. But too late they realize that Ganon has the Triforce of Power. One might wonder, if that scene really is right after the Seal War, how they didn't know that he had the Triforce of Power.

However, the Japanese version only say that they sealed off the 'source of evil', not that they sealed the gates to the Golden Land. The way I see it it's not known before later that he got the Triforce of Power. Legends are not forged before some time after the real events, so it would still fit with ALttP.

on WW it said the Hero never returned and it says nothing about Ganon returning twice....

TWW NEVER claims that the Hero never returned. It only say he left on a journey. We know from MM, and possibly TP, that he DID return. And TWW only mentions that one return of Ganon because FSA, TP, ALttP and any other games that may be before TWW isn't important to the storyline of the game.

There are probably THOUSANDS of legends in Hyrule. We are unlikely to ever learn more than 3% of those legends. And let's not forget that the prologue states that it's just one of the legends of which the people speak.

Splitting the Triforce of Courage into eight shards.

The Triforce of Courage was split and hidden in the Great Sea, so I don't think it can have happened before the Great Flood.

What's the definition of ancient?

The historical definition is at least one thousand years, and that's putting it mildly. 1,000 years ago the Vikings lived, and I have a hard time thinking of them as ancient. It should be closer to 2,000 years, and older.

Besides, I would take anything Aonuma say with a grain of salt. Not that I think he's lying, but I believe he's drawing conclusions too quickly.

[Hero Link]

But there is something i don't understand. TP is before TWW right? TP called the great Hero "Ancient Hero" and TWW is decades after TP, but then he is called "The Hero of Time"? I just don't understand how TP doesn't know the title of the great Hero, but TWW is decades after TP and they know his title name?

[Commodore Axilon]

That doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know it. Just that they prefer calling him the "Ancient Hero."

[Kingsley]

It has to be before TWW. When the sages talk about Ganondorf, that was what they did at the end of OoT (even though the map is drastically different), so this definitely happened after OoT/MM and before WW. Ganon comes back again after you defeat him in TP, and obviously there are no direct descendants of our Ordonan Link, even though he is obviously interested in Ilia..

[Lokes]

Its after OoT, that's for sure. Cuz I learned recently that on OoT release thay made it clear that OoT was THE first game in the storyline, chronological.

[Evilslayer]

That can be argued.

It has to be before TWW. When the sages talk about Ganondorf, that was what they did at the end of OoT (even though the map is drastically different), so this definitely happened after OoT/MM and before WW.

That scene is in the DESERT, not the Golden Land. So whether you're a singlist or splittist it's still impossible for it to be right after OoT. In both 'endings' Ganon ends up trapped in the Golden Land, or Dark World which is more accurate.

[Mysterious F.]

In between OOT/MM and TWW/PH. We don't know exactly what else is around that time, except Ganon has yet to rise from somewhere and cause the flood with various activities.

[Lokes]

Well actually I remember one Line in TWW which said: But the Hero Never Came/showed etc.
Come to think of it, did it say: The hero Didn't show?

Perhaps it doesn't say NEVER, but he did not show, and he did not show in time. The gods washed Hyrule away before the hero of time came back. Meaning, IT HAS to be before TWW, and definately after OOT because it was proclaimed by Shigeru that OoT WAS the first game in the timeline. Chronologically, TP is second or third in the timeline, and it's between OoT and WW.

If I am in error, please DO correct me in an understanding reasonable way. No more bullshitting around this subject now. No happy douches saying but It's like that because I want it to be like that!

Not that anyone has said that, lol....  

[Evilslayer]

If you take that interview as canon then LoZ and AoL has to be before ALttP. But he never strictly said that OoT has to be the first game. That's fanon, not canon.

[The_Red_Blade]

Hello folks. I figured this is as good of a first post as any.

Twilight Princess Spoilers Below!



As I see it, the game takes place several centuries after Link is sent back at the end of Ocarina of Time (whether or not this occurs in a single or split timeline is, for the moment, irrelevant). The young Link and Zelda, rembering thier expierences, tell the King of Hyrule what a threat Ganondorf is.  Lacking concrete proof beyond the word of two small children, the King can do no more than banish Gannondorf from the realm.

Realizing that his plan is foiled, Ganon retreats to the Desert and begins to prepare to take by force what he can't by plotting. Years pass as he builds his might.

Eventually, the day comes when Ganon makes his moves. Attacking with a force of both Gerudo and monsters, Ganon sows destruction and chaos across Hyrule.  During the fighting, several things happen:

1)In the seige of Hyrule Castle,  Lon Lon Ranch is converted to (or reverts to?) a fort. It is ultimately seriously damaged or destroyed.

2) The Temple of Time is teleported, possibly through the power of the Triforce, to the Lost Woods. Theoretically, this would be to prevent Ganon from seizing the Temple when he took Hyrule Castle.

3)The Kokiri are either destroyed or decide to abandon thier village to move furhter into the Lost Woods, past the Sacred Grove.

4) Somebody that isn't Ganon uses the Triforce. That person (Zelda?) has an unbalanced heart, causing the Triforce to break. For some reason, this person  either does not tell anyone, or does not think that Ganondorf would recieve the Triforce of Power.

5) Link becomes, in personality and expierence, the warrior who teaches you sword techinques through the Howling Stones.

Eventually, Ganon is defeated, brought down by his own pride and arrogance. The Gerudo are nearly wiped out, and thier fortress becomes the basis of a new prision for the very worst of Hyrule's criminals and monsters. The Sages, realizing that he will be a threat as long as he lives, condem Ganondorf to death. As we all know, the execution fails, and Ruto is killed. In desperation, the Twilight Mirror is activated and Ganon is sealed away. The surviving sages take up an eternal vigil around the mirror.

With the Kokiri gone and Lon Lon Ranch destroyed, Link and Malon help found the villiage or Ordon in the remains of what was once the Kokiri Forest. The Lost Woods become an even more mysterious place, with the battle-scarred remains of the Forest Temple and Temple of Time crumbling into ruins. Hyrule Castle and the surround town are rebuilt, and Hyrule continues to expand its borders. Eventually, the exploits of Link merge into the greater legend of the Imprisioning War, and much is forgotten by the start of TP.

So, there you go. My explanation of why things are as they are. As you can probably see, I've put some thought into this, so please comment and critique as you see fit.

[Commodore Axilon]

Welcome, The_Red_Blade, to the Desert Colossus. You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. You must be cautious.

Now to attack your post.

1)In the seige of Hyrule Castle,  Lon Lon Ranch is converted to (or reverts to?) a fort. It is ultimately seriously damaged or destroyed.

What?

I'm not quite sure I understand this part.

2) The Temple of Time is teleported, possibly through the power of the Triforce, to the Lost Woods. Theoretically, this would be to prevent Ganon from seizing the Temple when he took Hyrule Castle.

Arggh, not you too! Does nobody notice that the two temples look quite different? And there's also the fact that one is eight stories tall.

4) Somebody that isn't Ganon uses the Triforce. That person (Zelda?) has an unbalanced heart, causing the Triforce to break. For some reason, this person  either does not tell anyone, or does not think that Ganondorf would recieve the Triforce of Power.

Eh? The Triforce was split at the end of OoT. I don't see why this is necessary.

Eventually, Ganon is defeated, brought down by his own pride and arrogance. The Gerudo are nearly wiped out, and thier fortress becomes the basis of a new prision for the very worst of Hyrule's criminals and monsters. The Sages, realizing that he will be a threat as long as he lives, condem Ganondorf to death. As we all know, the execution fails, and Ruto is killed. In desperation, the Twilight Mirror is activated and Ganon is sealed away. The surviving sages take up an eternal vigil around the mirror.

All makes sense, but for the part about the OoT sages being the same as the TP sages. You'd think they'd know Ganon had the ToP if they were.

With the Kokiri gone and Lon Lon Ranch destroyed, Link and Malon help found the villiage or Ordon in the remains of what was once the Kokiri Forest. The Lost Woods become an even more mysterious place, with the battle-scarred remains of the Forest Temple and Temple of Time crumbling into ruins. Hyrule Castle and the surround town are rebuilt, and Hyrule continues to expand its borders. Eventually, the exploits of Link merge into the greater legend of the Imprisioning War, and much is forgotten by the start of TP.

Aside from the Temple of Time thing, I don't think the TP Forest Temple is the same as the OoT Forest Temple either. They're way too different to be the same.

Note: Everything I didn't quote I agree with.

[The_Red_Blade]

Still working out the quote system, so forgive me for not replying as stylishly as possible.

The theory I posted above was the result of a timeline some friends and I had been working out. As such, I did not explain certain aspects of it as well as should have/thought I did. The fact that I was writing at 2 AM may also have had something to do with that =).

As you were probably able to gather, I was refering to events that occured immediatly after the end of Ocarina of Time. I presume that, when Link was sent back to his childhood, he entered a timeline in which Ganondorf had not yet seized the Triforce, and thus had not been sealed away. In short, it was as if the events of the Adult Timeline had never happened. As mentioned before, whether or not the Adult Timeline continued on to become its own full-fledged timeline or wether it was a mere buble in a single timeline is irrelevant.

All this directly impacts Point 4. At Ganon's execution, all parties involved seem pretty surprised that the Triforce appeared on his hand. The sage narrating the story even describes his possesion of it as "a cosmic joke," or something to that effect. This causes me to believe that someone other than Ganon had touched the Triforce, and had somehow broke it in the process. As seems to always be the case, those that have the Triforce pieces do not know about it until the piece activates itself. In Ganon's case, he didn't know he had the ToP until someone drove a sword into his chest.

Ganon not touching the Triforce at this point would explain two things: First, if they knew Ganon had the Triforce, I think the Sages would have used the Master Sword to kill him, as opposed to the blade they did use. Second, I'm not sure if it's possible to stop a Triforce-wielding Ganon without killing him. OoT shows that he'll keep coming at you until he's got nothing left.

Lon Lon Ranch: This was my attempt to explain why the Ranch does not appear in TP. If you look at how its situtated and constructed, it does look like it would make a perfectly functional fort: high pallisade walls, constructed on a hill, and directly to the rear of the area an army beseiging Hyrule Castle would use to camp/entrench. I'm saying that it's possible that the Ranch was originally built as a fort in the same war that killed the Hero of Time's mother, or that it was used as such during this war. Either way, I figure it was destroyed in the fighting, thus explaining it's absence in TP.

The Temple of Time: Really, we didn't get to see too much of it last time around. However, I just got up to the Temple today, so I'll reserve further comment till I beat it.

The Sages: The scenario I've described occurs within the natural lifetimes of all the major players from OoT. As such, I assume it was Ruto who got a fist full of Ganon's rage. This solves one of the problems of Link's love life, as hinted at in OoT. As you remeber, Link had to betroth himself to Ruto in order to get her to hand over Zora's Saphire. 7 years on, she still seemed to be taking that oath pretty seriously. Her death would certainly free Link of his bond. Which leads us to...

The Bloodline of the Hero: We know that TP Link and the Hero of Time are of the same family, by the admission of one of the members of this bloodline (OoT Link himself?), who appears to teach you sword skills from time to time. As such, Link needs a wife.

For me, Saria was the clear emotional favorite, but was also a Kokiri and thus would remain a child. This effectively rules her out. Besides, I'm not sure if the Sages and Heroes can start mixing bloodlines.

Zelda would be the next runner up, as there did appear to be some sparks there. However, Zelda is a princess, and thus would probably have to marry for political reaons. And again, she is a Sage, so she might not even be "elegible."

This leaves us with Malon. She and Link certainly got along. She also has the red hair that seems to occur in later Heroes (TP, LttP). I think she is the the leading candidate for not only marrying Link, but founding the ranch at Ordon.

Hope this clarifies my first points. But thanks for your critique. I await your reply =)

[MagmarFire]

MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS




Still, don't forget that Link could also have gotten together with someone who's NOT a major female character in the game, which I think is more likely than not.

Anyway, I do agree, though, with your saying that the Hero's Shade could be OoT Link, or at least any Link from Old Hyrule. I base some of this evidence from the fact that if you look at his sword hand, it's his left hand, just like Link's. This could be a coincidence, but if not, I consider this a strong-going theory.

[Commodore Axilon]

I see you're working off of the opinion that the events of OoT were completely erased by Links going back in time. But I think that kind of cheapens Ganondorf's emotional tirade at the end of the game. And if you remember, this monologue occurs after Zelda sends Link back in time.

So I'm thinking that the Sacred Realm, and by extension the Triforce, is independent of time. Ergo you have quite a nice explanation for each of the Triforce holders in TP; and the fact that there's another "past" Ganondorf running around in the "real" world sets up the events of TP quite nicely.

The Temple of Time: Really, we didn't get to see too much of it last time around. However, I just got up to the Temple today, so I'll reserve further comment till I beat it.

We certainly know it wasn't eight stories tall. And if you compare the entrances, you'll see they're similar yet quite aesthetically different.

The Sages: The scenario I've described occurs within the natural lifetimes of all the major players from OoT. As such, I assume it was Ruto who got a fist full of Ganon's rage. This solves one of the problems of Link's love life, as hinted at in OoT. As you remeber, Link had to betroth himself to Ruto in order to get her to hand over Zora's Saphire. 7 years on, she still seemed to be taking that oath pretty seriously. Her death would certainly free Link of his bond. Which leads us to...

I'm pretty sure when you beat the Water Temple and talk to Ruto, she frees Link of his marital obligation.

And there's also the fact that they look nothing like the sages from OoT.