I just thought of something!!!

[Eralk Fang]

I don't think we'd ever get a game wherein Colin was the main character, but I would love to have some reference in a game set later than Twilight Princess to Colin being a great hero.

[Evilslayer]

Uh, that doesn't mean anything. It seems to me that he's saying that he, Link, is the chosen hero. You can't seriously believe that only hero's can be named Link, can you?

I'm referring to the TRUE Heroes. Those that are destined to appear when evil threats Hyrule. Those that are of the Knigths' bloodline. And yes, I believe the hero of men is a Link. It wouldn't make sense if he isn't.

No real changes to Hyrule? I'd consider the expansion of Hyrule, new races, and a flooded Hyrule changes...

1. There's never been any expansion of Hyrule. The biggest so far is the Hyrule in AoL, the second game...

2. That's adding, not changing. Or do you think each game shows absolutely everything?

3. Yes, Hyrule is flooded. But when? It could be at the end of the known Timeline, and so don't affect the other games at all. But when I said there's not been any real changes I talked about in-game contradictions.

[Eralk Fang]

How could it not make sense? It's mildly elitist to say that every single important Hero in Hyrulean history most come from the bloodline of the Knights, which incidentally makes them have to be Hylians! No Heroes of other races are important to history? Sucks to be Colin, then, a human with no connection to the Knights- he can't hope to ever be an important hero.

To further refute this, there is the Link from Ocarina of Time. We are never told that he's from a bloodline involving the Knights. All we know is that he had a Hylian mother, probably uninvolved in combat due to her infant son. Is he not a true Hero?

As for your numbered points, Evilslayer...

1. Alright, most of us would agree that Twilight Princess is after Ocarina of Time. I think they show the same area, merely expanded into the north, as Hyrule has conquered northern lands (perhaps even installing the Zora monarchy in the north to keep an eye on those territories).

You state that Adventure of Link contains the biggest Hyrule so far. As it is a direct sequel to The Legend of Zelda, it's the same Hyrule, but different lands- Hyrule has gained northern lands, and lost lands in the south.

2. It shows us all of Hyrule, one single country. As most countries do, it gains land and loses land (Austria and Prussia, anyone?). No matter which country a Zelda game is set in (Hyrule, Holodrum, Labrynna, or Termina, even though that's a parallel dimension), it stays within the borders of that particular country. Adding would be the same country just building up and up- changing means Hyrule gains and loses land, as I stated above.

3. Extreme timelines are interesting, but I can't say I've ever found one that places The Wind Waker last- if you'd like to direct me to one, I'll gladly take a look.

I find your last statement too vague. Are you talking about in-game contradictions regarding geography, bloodlines, or the Flood?

[Hero Link]

According to Aonuma, TP and TWW does not take place in the same timeline. Here is the quote:

–When does Twilight Princess take place?

Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.

–And the Wind Waker?

Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link's time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...

So TP takes place in Kid Link's Timeline and TWW in Adult Link's Timeline. Or did i read wrong? O.o

BTW... This was from GDC 2007.

[Bboy94]

But Aonuma also said that TP was after OoT before WW. This proves that there is no master timeline, or that Aonuma is nuts.

[Master Dragmire]

Umm, it has been stated that there is a master timeline, there is no denying it.....

[Commodore Axilon]

Lots of things have been "stated." Doesn't make them true. I need evidence, man.

[Master Dragmire]

Uhhh Im not sure if it was Aonuma or Miyamoto. Ask Konnachi or something cause I dont really know what interview it was, but I positive that their is one....

[Penguin dude 2]

yes, theres a master timeline. It's supposed to be really big, and details all the connections the games make to each other and use those to make the timeline. Anyway, it seems that TP would take place in the child timeline, since Ganon was sealed in the Sacred Realm at the end of OoT, and in TP, it has him sealed in the Twilight Realm. Big difference.

[Mysterious F.]

I'll take part in this.

This doesn't at all disprove the split timeline. TWW clearly would be in Adult Link's world because of how it clearly makes many references to Adult Link's world, while the Child World would forget because they NEVER happened. And TWW downright says directly that TWW Link has no connection to OOT Link when Jabun asked if Link was related to the Hero of Time.

Evilslayer, then if because he got named the Hero of Winds he has to be related to OOT Link, then that means the Hero of Men is related to MC Link. There is no proven relationship between them. And for the last time, he isn't Gustaf! And actually, OOT itself disproves your theory, Evilslayer. Ganon was sealed into Sacred Realm, and Link was sent back in time. History got split into two worlds, one with a Link and one without. Likn no longer physically exists, so how can he create a line of descendants?

I actually feel the spirit of OOT Link lived on when his physical body died in Child Link's World. Because he never died in the other world he created (Adult Link World) as a consequence of him going back in time at the end of OOT, he would one day be reborn in his other world as a new hero to fight when evil striked. Unfortunately, Ganon was already locked away in Adult Link's World under the newly flooded Hyrule, so he would have to wait, and wait, and wait for this oppurtunity. But so controversy with his relatives and friends would never accure, he would lose any memory of his past.

Aonuma.

Commodore, evidence has been said, you just need to think of the possibility of it being true while listneing. I always take into consideration the possibility of it being true when reading it.

Evilslayer, it has NEVER ever been stated that ANY Link is related to another except the Oracle Links, which are clearly the same, LTTP, which states that Link is related to the last knight, and the NES (?) Game Links, which are the same. LA Link is largely implyed to be LTTP Link, and he probably is. OOT Link and MM Link are the same. Come to think of it, every Link in a game released before TWW is also the same Link from another game. (OOT/MM; LOZ/AOL; LTTP/LA; Oralces) TWW and PH, too. It's also been slightly implyed that FS and FSA Link are the same. MC and TP are left alone.

What does this all mean? It's NEVER been stated in the games that the Links are related. In fact, I don't think at all they have a blood relation. It's only believed that LTTP Link is OOT Link's descendant due to terrible translations. Any other games are left alone.

[Evilslayer]

Whocares, the split only changes the future, not the past. OoT Link was born a decade before the split, so it would have been impossible to erase him from the future Hyrule altogether.

But Aonuma also said that TP was after OoT before WW. This proves that there is no master timeline, or that Aonuma is nuts.

He said that when the game was in development, and before Miyamoto turned the table.

How could it not make sense? It's mildly elitist to say that every single important Hero in Hyrulean history most come from the bloodline of the Knights, which incidentally makes them have to be Hylians! No Heroes of other races are important to history? Sucks to be Colin, then, a human with no connection to the Knights- he can't hope to ever be an important hero.

He cannot hope to ever defeat the likes of Ganon. It's basically STATED in ALttP that the Heros who are of the bloodline of the Knights are the only ones who can do that.

You state that Adventure of Link contains the biggest Hyrule so far. As it is a direct sequel to The Legend of Zelda, it's the same Hyrule, but different lands- Hyrule has gained northern lands, and lost lands in the south.

AoL shows the whole of Hyrule, or what is assumed to be the whole of Hyrule. LoZ only shows a tiny region south of Death Mountain.

2. It shows us all of Hyrule, one single country. As most countries do, it gains land and loses land (Austria and Prussia, anyone?). No matter which country a Zelda game is set in (Hyrule, Holodrum, Labrynna, or Termina, even though that's a parallel dimension), it stays within the borders of that particular country. Adding would be the same country just building up and up- changing means Hyrule gains and loses land, as I stated above.

Some games may show the whole of Hyrule (which I doubt; well, with the exception of AoL) but it do NOT show everything, which was my point. I hope you don't think Lon Lon Ranch possibly can feed the entire population of both Hyrule Castle Town and Kakariko Village...

3. Extreme timelines are interesting, but I can't say I've ever found one that places The Wind Waker last- if you'd like to direct me to one, I'll gladly take a look.

Actually, all of my single timeline theories ends with the Great Flood, and then TWW. Why? I feel uncomfortable about placing ANY current game after the Great Flood, TWW and PH.

Well, with a rare exception of LoZ and AoL, if I want to write a LoZ-based fan fic that completely ignores all the other games, giving it a very strong LoZ nostalgia. But then, it would be better to put LoZ at the start.

[Eralk Fang]

He cannot hope to ever defeat the likes of Ganon. It's basically STATED in ALttP that the Heros who are of the bloodline of the Knights are the only ones who can do that.

Smacking down Ganondorf isn't the only way to become a Hero in Hyrule. In Ocarina of Time, Darunia speaks of a great Goron Hero of the past. Since Ganondorf is in his twenties/thirties in that game, he can't be the reason that Goron is a Hero.

...Do you know the prophecy of the Great Cataclysm? This is the way I heard it... If a person who has an evil heart gets the Triforce, a Hero is destined to
appear ...and he alone must face the person who began the Great Cataclysm.
If the evil one destroys the Hero, nothing can save the world from his wicked
reign. Only a person of the Knights Of Hyrule, who protected the royalty of Hylia, can become the Hero...  You are of their blood-line, aren't you? Then you must
rescue Zelda without fail.

This refers to the Hero of the Great Cataclysm prophecy rather than every Hero ever in Hyrule. And we already have a Link that has no connection to the bloodline of the Knights whatsoever: the Hero of Time himself. And he smacked down Ganondorf pretty good, didn't he? His parents are only outlined as Hylians, and his mother was gravely injured by the "fires of war". In The Wind Waker, historians and story tellers have not written in any Knightly parent for the Hero of Time, to smooth over the uncertainties of his parentage (and the fact he could have been born out of wedlock) or make him appear "qualified" to be a Hero. In fact, the only time Knights of Hyrule are mentioned in The Wind Waker is for Daphnes to reflect on how even they could never hope to break into Ganon's Tower! Being of that particular bloodline is only a requirement to fulfill the Great Cataclysm prophecy.

Some games may show the whole of Hyrule (which I doubt; well, with the exception of AoL) but it do NOT show everything, which was my point. I hope you don't think Lon Lon Ranch possibly can feed the entire population of both Hyrule Castle Town and Kakariko Village...

Obviously, they can't show us every little village and farm. However, I'm quite confident that the borders are accurate in each game.

[Mysterious F.]

Actually, Evilslayer, your theory makes no snese. Hyrule may not be as big in each game, but borders chage from time to time, and wars are fought as well, so Hyrule can gain or lose territory.

[Evilslayer]

A kingdom it takes a day to cross on horseback is hardly worth calling a kingdom. I stick to what I said above, that I doubt it ever shows the whole of Hyrule (except in AoL).

Smacking down Ganondorf isn't the only way to become a Hero in Hyrule. In Ocarina of Time, Darunia speaks of a great Goron Hero of the past. Since Ganondorf is in his twenties/thirties in that game, he can't be the reason that Goron is a Hero.

He's a hero (with no capital h) because he killed a dragon. That's not quite the same as defeating Ganon.

[Eralk Fang]

Smacking down Ganondorf isn't the only way to become a Hero in Hyrule. In Ocarina of Time, Darunia speaks of a great Goron Hero of the past. Since Ganondorf is in his twenties/thirties in that game, he can't be the reason that Goron is a Hero.

He's a hero (with no capital h) because he killed a dragon. That's not quite the same as defeating Ganon.

So you must defeat Ganon to be a Hero? Alright, then there's a Link who isn't a Hero: the Link from The Minish Cap, who defeated Vaati and not Ganon.

I would capitalize Heroes based on their importance in their particular cultural lore. A hero can be someone who did something courageous recently; most of the time, these heroes are not remembered after deaths as being heroes, but as whatever their actual occupation was. A Hero has major impact on their culture, and is remembered most for their heroic deed after they die. The Goron Hero? Still talked about, left behind a relic, and saved a religious temple. Just  because he didn't do as much as Link doesn't mean he's just a hero; for all we know, the Gorons call him the Hero of the Fire Temple. Hero of Time? Hugely influential on Hylian/human culture, but not Zora culture (this is different from saving them; Hylian culture basically absorbed the Kokiri dress as a proper costume for Hylian Heroes, but the Zora are not impacted culturally by the Hero of Time).