America

[Zoratunic]

If your country affects my country, if your country affects the whole world in a way it shouldn't, if your country ignores tons of treaties it made AND quite often refuses to sign one, if your country does things that are against the human rights, then I certainly CAN judge your country while not living there.

First Question: How does our country violate human rights?

* No more right to bear arms, except for the cops.

So you saying that we should tell the millions of men and women in America who use arms for sport, hunting, protection, or anything else like that, that their guns are being revoked becuase a small percentage of the gun owning population are using them for crimes?

* Radical believers, whether Muslim or Christian, would be treated equally.

I sorry to say this, but the disagreement between these two groups will not end for a very, VERY, long time.

I also have to argue with Whocares.

*War on terrorism.

Then what shold have we done after 9/11, sit back and watch more acts of terror unfold?

*Nukes

So, if we get rid of our nukes, don't come cryin' to me when the russians or other communists blow Washington off the map. What I'm trying to say is, we can't disarm our nukes until everyone else does.

One more quote!

I agree with LadyNintendo about everything she said. I'm not saying the American people are bad, just the whole ego thing is out of control.

The thing about ego is, well you shoud know if you have ever read Anthem.

Whew... I need to get all that off my chest!

[Mysterious F.]

Very good, TZ, you're taking both sides of the arguemtn into consideration. Yes, America is like a bad article on wikipedia, it needs cleanup, but it can't get anywhere near as bad as Mitsunari Yanagisawa is, or far worse crap.

[Commodore Axilon]

First Question: How does our country violate human rights?

You seriously have to ask this question? Ever heard of Guantanamo Bay?

So you saying that we should tell the millions of men and women in America who use arms for sport, hunting, protection, or anything else like that, that their guns are being revoked becuase a small percentage of the gun owning population are using them for crimes?

Yeah, I believe that's exactly what she's saying. They're weapons. Meant to kill things. That's what they're for.

Then what shold have we done after 9/11, sit back and watch more acts of terror unfold?

I suppose you're one of those poor misguided souls who thinks that Iraq had something to do with 9/11, right?

So, if we get rid of our nukes, don't come cryin' to me when the russians or other communists blow Washington off the map. What I'm trying to say is, we can't disarm our nukes until everyone else does.

Why, because we're better than everybody else? We're more important than them? Our lives are worth more than theirs? That's just sick.

The thing about ego is, well you shoud know if you have ever read Anthem.

I have read Anthem, and am at a loss as to what your point is here. Care to elaborate?

[Mysterious F.]

Okay, so you're telling me the only reason at all we should keep guns is hunting? If that was the first thing you ever said to me, that might be reason enough for me to hate you. (Seriously, I'm surprisingly easy to anger in real life) Although in some cases for hunting they should be kept, particulariyl if that person's source of food is from hunting, then they should be allowed, but besides that guns should be banned.

And don't think I am the most patriotic American, quite honestly I think the world would be a better place if the UK or Germany were the "head nation" seeing as how they currently are. The UK itself has already assumed that role once, and in that case their ego wasn't what came first.

[Commodore Axilon]

Okay, so you're telling me the only reason at all we should keep guns is hunting? If that was the first thing you ever said to me, that might be reason enough for me to hate you. (Seriously, I'm surprisingly easy to anger in real life) Although in some cases for hunting they should be kept, particulariyl if that person's source of food is from hunting, then they should be allowed, but besides that guns should be banned.

Who, me? I have no problem with using guns for hunting. But, sadly, that's not the only thing they can be used for. So, I think it'd be better to play it safe, and just ban them out right. And besides, guns aren't the only things you can go hunting with anyway.

[LadyNintendo]

Radical believers, whether Muslim or Christian, would be treated equally.

That is actually impossible. Whether or not you make that law, people wouldn't follow it. You CANNOT make a law that changes people, it will end in disaster.


Also, let's go over all the good things America has done:

*Citizens of America have made very important inventions.
*Who knows how WWI would end without America, which largely turned the war around.
*The AR inspired many other revolutions (including the French Revolutuion) that changed history for the better.
*Be one of the first conutries actually allowing rights.
*WWII. Enough said.
*Become an inspiration for many other countries around the world.

And many other I won't bother to list.

Bad things:

*War on terrorism.
*Nukes
*Claimed by many to cause poverty, while in actuality we are doing the opposite.
*Global Warming crisis.

And many other minor things I'm too lazy to list.


Unlike you, I am actually taking both sides seriously, all you are doing is casting off everything against you are saying. Unless you are the type who recognizes both sides, then you are someone who almost argues for the sake of arguing.

And also, don't just go around say "All American Leaders Suck", take a look at other countries. Yes, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin were the best world leaders ever. George III (England) was the smartest of all of England's rulers. None of the Popes were EVER in it for money or power.  ::)

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. When I say all radical believers should be treated equally, I mean that you don't go off to another country because their radical (other) believers are a "threat" while your own believers are no better. I'm not saying anything about forcing people to change, but this "religionism" has to stop.

FINALLY!!!! Someone actually tells me what good America has done the war! And it only took, what?, 3 pages? They stay valid and good points though, except for 1 (inventors you got everywhere, not just in America) and 6.

But if it's the past we're talking about, I can also mention the following: Vietnam, resurrecting slavery in the first world (sure, Europe eagerly helped, but it's still America who brought it back), holocaust on native Americans etc.

Tell me, what did you say in defence of America before this post that was not selfish? I pointed out so much and no one actually said something proving the opposite. All I hear is that "I'm a left wing radical" and that "America (at least) is good for its own citizens". What am I supposed to do but pointing out what the "opposition" keeps ignoring? Suddenly answer myself in an attempt to keep the story not so one sided?

I NEVER said in ANY WAY that all American leaders suck. At the most that you currently got an idiot.

[Zoratunic]

First Question: How does our country violate human rights?

You seriously have to ask this question? Ever heard of Guantanamo Bay?

So you saying that we should tell the millions of men and women in America who use arms for sport, hunting, protection, or anything else like that, that their guns are being revoked becuase a small percentage of the gun owning population are using them for crimes?

Yeah, I believe that's exactly what she's saying. They're weapons. Meant to kill things. That's what they're for.

Then what shold have we done after 9/11, sit back and watch more acts of terror unfold?

I suppose you're one of those poor misguided souls who thinks that Iraq had something to do with 9/11, right?

So, if we get rid of our nukes, don't come cryin' to me when the russians or other communists blow Washington off the map. What I'm trying to say is, we can't disarm our nukes until everyone else does.

Why, because we're better than everybody else? We're more important than them? Our lives are worth more than theirs? That's just sick.

The thing about ego is, well you shoud know if you have ever read Anthem.

I have read Anthem, and am at a loss as to what your point is here. Care to elaborate?

1: I have heard of Guantanamo Bay, and in my opinion, the terrorists are getting what they deserve.

2:Not everybody uses their weapons to kill.

3: 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. I was talking about Afaganistan.

4: We should only disarm our nukes when everybody else does so that way we won't get attacked when our guard is down.

5: The thing about Anthem is that the story is saying without Man's ego, we will become the same society that is descibed in the book.

Also, I never said that hunting is the only thing that guns should be used for. Have you watchted the olympics? Shooting sports are the third most participated in game.(behing track and boxing)

And besides, guns aren't the only things you can go hunting with anyway.

Did you know that it's state law in Alaska that you carry a gun on you in the wilderness, since nothing short of one will kill a bear that's attacking you.

[Commodore Axilon]

1: I have heard of Guantanamo Bay, and in my opinion, the terrorists are getting what they deserve.

First of all, not all of them are convicted terrorists. They're not even given the chance to have a trial.

Second of all, removing the basic human rights of someone just because you don't like them, makes you just as bad as them.

2:Not everybody uses their weapons to kill.

So? That's what they're designed to do. I'd say the off-chance of someone dying in an accidental shooting speaks for itself. When people's lives are at stake, then we should take as many precautions as possible.

3: 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. I was talking about Afaganistan.

Well, bully for you. But, believe it or not, the war in Iraq is part of the War on Terror.

4: We should only disarm our nukes when everybody else does so that way we won't get attacked when our guard is down.

Again, there's that sense of unentitled superiority that the rest of the world despises us for.

Also, I never said that hunting is the only thing that guns should be used for. Have you watchted the olympics? Shooting sports are the third most participated in game.(behing track and boxing)

Yes, and those guns are used in a supervised and controlled environment. What's your point?

Did you know that it's state law in Alaska that you carry a gun on you in the wilderness, since nothing short of one will kill a bear that's attacking you.

Well, that begs the question of why someone's trudging around in the Alaskan wilderness for in the first place.

[LadyNintendo]

Those people often are NOT terrorists! America throws everybody in there who just happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong skin colour/faith. And how about those torture camps that weren't downright denied? How about the death penalty? All violations.

I'll leave my opinion of hunting out of this. Yes, guns should become illegal. I could see some exceptions for sport, if the rules are strict (and possibly, alternatives should be sought). Who likes using a real gun anyways? What kind of person are you if you like performing an action that is intended to kill or become better at it?

What are you talking about? I'm not saying believers should denounce their fate, or become friends (would be nice though). I'm talking about America loving Christians and hating Muslims. Discrimination always is an ugly thing.

You should not have gone to war like this after 9/11. You should have discussed actions to be taken with other countries rather than saying: "I'm going to war. Who doesn't support me will get in (economical)  trouble!"

And that mentality about arms is what keeps the world a dangerous place. A couple of trigger happy countries will keep their weapons, claiming for defensive purposes only, and nothing will change. Those countries have at least as much reason to fear you as you them, possibly more. Scared of communists, btw? How American.

PS. Not that the Netherlands could ever be a threat to anyone, but our current minister of defense wants to spend less money on our army and even remove some of our current defenses.

[Mysterious F.]

Communism is basically split in half, one half completely destroyed (USSR) and the other half still alive (China and smaller countries). It can be safe to say that China would be a better country under a non-communist government, and with Communist China gone N. Korea would be the major communist country, and..... enough said. By that point everyone would go "What is communism?"

[Gamefreak]

Those people often are NOT terrorists! America throws everybody in there who just happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong skin colour/faith.

What proof do you have that they aren't terrorists?  I'm not saying they are, because I have no proof, but how do you know they aren't, without having any proof?

[Commodore Axilon]

You know they're not given a trial, right? And, on the rare occasion that they are, they don't even get a lawyer.

[Gamefreak]

Even so, that doesn't mean that they're not terrorists.  For all you know, they could be a terrorist who got a bad trial.

[LadyNintendo]

Those people often are NOT terrorists! America throws everybody in there who just happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong skin colour/faith.

What proof do you have that they aren't terrorists?  I'm not saying they are, because I have no proof, but how do you know they aren't, without having any proof?

Isn't it "not guilty unless proven otherwise"? If they want to keep those people there, they have to prove they're terrorists (something America jsut refuses to do). If they want them convicted, it has to be within a fair time limit, with a fair trial. And under no circumstances are the things done there allowed.

[Gamefreak]

But proven or not, does it physically mean that they are not terrorists unless proven otherwise?