I HATE NARUTO!!!

[MagmarFire]

Ah shaddup. I can count past ten!! One two three four five six seven eight nine ten... uh... what comes after ten? Oh yeah! Eleven!!

But seriously, I can count past ten...

He said many eleven-year-olds can't count past ten, not all of them.

[Vaati]

I have to agree that I think Naruto is a crappy show and I hate it too. Mostly the reason because the Naruto fans seem to act like it's the best thing that's happened to anime since Astro Boy. When it's really not that great of a show. But there's no need to blast out like this, even though I can totally understand.

[Bboy94]

The logic of this topic is incredible.

There are lots of n00bs who think Link's name is Zelda, and give Zelda fans and Nintendo a bad name, do I hate Zelda though?

Naruto is an awesome show with a good amount of depth, sure it's not extremely complicated, if it was it would be much, much longer, and probably boring. As for cliches, saying something is cliche is a cliche, no matter how crazy that may sound. Because everything in popular culture is a cliche, because there is so much stuff! You can't not have several cliches in a tv show now! I don't know how many times people have said something is bad because it's a cliche, well, fantasy worlds and anime worlds themselves are cliches.

Thats just my twenty cents.

[darkphantomime]

Both parts are not necessarily true. People simply don't try to look for other things. If they tried that, they'd discover that there's a whole world of unconventionalities.

[LadyNintendo]

if it was complicated it would be probably boring

Ouch. this is the kind of attitude that JQ is complaining about and part of why he can't enjoy shows such as Naruto.

Also, Fantasy worlds don't have to be cliché. Point is that no one has the brains and will to come up with new stuff, free from the indoctrinated minds that make up fantasy right now. Fantasy lost its fantasy a long time ago.  

[Bboy94]

Well then we have different opinions of what is complicated. I think of complicated is as having a whole religion, political spats and manuevering, semi-evils, evil people that are evil but help out the main character, a clash of cultures, a clash within one of those cultures, too supporting charcters to easily keep track of, and like 9 demi-protaginists, evil organisations, the main protagonist going crazy, dead people walking, magic, old society of magical women that are so bent on tradition that they may screw the world because of it, a rebellion within said society, and trying to defeat an evil guy all at once.

What I was saying that what I call complicated wouldn't work at all for a tv show. By the way, whoever gets what book I was just talking about gets a cookie.

Both parts are not necessarily true. People simply don't try to look for other things. If they tried that, they'd discover that there's a whole world of unconventionalities.

*coughdoitcough*

[Gamefreak]

1. He actually meant what he said and wanted the info he asked for/to have a discussion on Naruto's qualities or lack thereof. In that case, he commited one of the cardinal sins of discussions. If you have an opinion you have to explain it! Especially if it's (slightly)  controversial. I'm fed up with people that don't do that, no matter whether I agree or disagree with their opinion. It's an egocentrical habit that too many people have these days.

Thank you!  Thank you!  Thank you!  I try to bring that up as much as possible.

I like Naruto, but not to the point to where I'd be labeled a "fanboy".  It's good, the fights are good, and that's all I'm going to say.

[TP Zelda]

Ah shaddup. I can count past ten!! One two three four five six seven eight nine ten... uh... what comes after ten? Oh yeah! Eleven!!

But seriously, I can count past ten...

He said many eleven-year-olds can't count past ten, not all of them.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIII'm just REALLY not going to look at this anymore.  :P

[darkphantomime]

Well then we have different opinions of what is complicated. I think of complicated is as having a whole religion, political spats and manuevering, semi-evils, evil people that are evil but help out the main character, a clash of cultures, a clash within one of those cultures, too supporting charcters to easily keep track of, and like 9 demi-protaginists, evil organisations, the main protagonist going crazy, dead people walking, magic, old society of magical women that are so bent on tradition that they may screw the world because of it, a rebellion within said society, and trying to defeat an evil guy all at once.

What I was saying that what I call complicated wouldn't work at all for a tv show. By the way, whoever gets what book I was just talking about gets a cookie.

That's a CONTRIVED plot. A 'complicated' plot doesn't have to have all that crap going on. "complicated" in another sense would be something that isn't easy to understand or requires some examination to grasp. But most people would go 'lolz! this sux!!11' (See whocares' first post in the 'least favorite manga thread') simply because they're not willing to do anything to have something keep their attention, they'd rather watch all this action, but there's nothing there.

[Bboy94]

If its contrived it's complicated. They aren't synonyms but it's near impossible not to have both. And a show doesn't need to be as complicated as you want to be enjoyable. And compared to most tv, Naruto is pretty darn complicated.

they're not willing to do anything to have something keep their attention, they'd rather watch all this action, but there's nothing there.

Stereotypical n00b. Really, there are n00bs for everything. But you know what? It's for a different age group than you JQ, not a different IQ group, in my experience most Naruto fans are intelligent 11-14 year olds.

[Twilight Wolf]

Hmm... what I'm thinking is that, like some foods, Naruto is a bit of an acquired taste. It just might not be a show that you can just watch a few episodes of and think "I like this!" It seems to work that way for some people, but not all. Case in point, the fans of the show watched it and liked it at least somewhat at the beginning, and thus were interested enough to continue watching it; the people who "hate" the show were turned off by various aspects of it at the start, and thus have no desire to watch the show any further. I haven't watched much of the show myself, so I can't very well give my opinion, but I think that there is no right or wrong opinion to have on this show, because it's really just a matter of preference.

[DW]

...


I can't believe it.

I really expected better from you guys. This is an argument that can never be won, because nobody is ever going to change their opinion. You know why? Because it's an opinion. This isn't the same as a political debate where you can look at facts and events and actually FIND proof.

JQ, it's not our fault.

Whocares, it's not his fault.

'Good' and 'Bad' are merely opinions, unable to be proven through facts or arguments. Maybe it's complicated to some people and not to others because they relate to the plot or understand it differently.

'Quality' is also an opinionated term. Quality to one person isn't quality to another. It depends on taste, and I honestly can't believe this has turned into an argument about who is wrong.

I'm utterly disappointed.

[Twilight Wolf]

That's what I'm saying, there's no right or wrong opinion to have. It's all entirely up to the viewer.

[Bboy94]

...


I can't believe it.

I really expected better from you guys. This is an argument that can never be won, because nobody is ever going to change their opinion. You know why? Because it's an opinion. This isn't the same as a political debate where you can look at facts and events and actually FIND proof.

JQ, it's not our fault.

Whocares, it's not his fault.

'Good' and 'Bad' are merely opinions, unable to be proven through facts or arguments. Maybe it's complicated to some people and not to others because they relate to the plot or understand it differently.

'Quality' is also an opinionated term. Quality to one person isn't quality to another. It depends on taste, and I honestly can't believe this has turned into an argument about who is wrong.

I'm utterly disappointed.

SHIKAMARU FOR PRESIDENT! :'D

Seriously, topic over.

[MagmarFire]

This is an argument that can never be won, because nobody is ever going to change their opinion. You know why? Because it's an opinion. This isn't the same as a political debate where you can look at facts and events and actually FIND proof.

. . .

'Good' and 'Bad' are merely opinions, unable to be proven through facts or arguments. Maybe it's complicated to some people and not to others because they relate to the plot or understand it differently.

'Quality' is also an opinionated term. Quality to one person isn't quality to another. It depends on taste, and I honestly can't believe this has turned into an argument about who is wrong.

Finally! Someone acknowledges what I said a few pages ago! :D