Ideas thread.

[Master Goron]

We'll have to change the "level-ups" system then, since without a lot of quests, no one would have enough to buy any stats or anything.

If the skill points are used like that, how about earning points at these intervals:

1 x 100
1 x 200
1 x 300
1 x 400
1 x 500
1 x 700
1 x 800
1 x 900
1 x 1000
10 gained
1 x 1200
1 x 1400
1 x 1600
1 x 1800
1 x 2000
15 gained

This would be fine because we could also get 2 for good participation(like the peaktop quest, xp was awarded for good rp'ing) in a plot quest, and 1 for participation in other important matters. Also, I think bonus points should be earned for rp threads that are deemed "spectacular" or at least very high quality. That way, we'd get enough, and not too much. Thoughts?

Also, we could use a feature like RoH uses, they have their's set so xp is only gained on posts 50 words or longer. We just need to have our own rupee system, 'cause theirs is cheated easily.

Here's the flaw in their system: "When I set about to increase the rupees paid for lengthy quality posts, I knew eventually that someone would decide to step over the line. This happened... in a big way... to the tune of over a quarter million rupees in two posts. Apparently the entire novel "War and Peace" was entered... then the post edited and a two liner put back in it's place..."

So yeah... I say we keep the way rupees were in HA, and have people gain xp with every 50+ words post.

3. I don't want to set classes up to the point where people have no defined class and are kind of aimless blobs of random stats.

That's why I propsed:

Okay, what if there was some sort of limit/penalty to prevent deviating too far from a class' origins?

Also, I think that some manner of weapons training should be a skill for other classes. What about soldiers that spend points into weapons training(they get basic to begin with) and gain more benefits, say L1 = double spears, something like that. And racial skills that increase abilities, so a moblin can war cry <30, a human learns an extra language, stuff like that. A goron might be able to learn an extra language, but it would cost me 3 sp instead of the 1 humans need.

So, Jack, any idea as to how stats are being done this time around?

Maybe some of the magic enhancements could be handled through skills, or maybe directly through churches. I like the church idea, though, so I guess I'd prefer that one. And possibly you would be limited to one...

[weienw]

Hopefully this will cut down on the number of Hylians in the game.  ;)

Haha, as long as we retain a couple in the end. Scary how race/class nerfing works.

But one of the the things that's on my mind is the prospect of having to "buy" stats with skill points. The thought of having to choose either stat increase or a shiny new skill is kind of scary :D. I can see sleep lost over that one... but I guess a lot of it is just balance. Though, what would happen if someone poured everything into DEF and HP and maybe one skill, some magic shield or heal of sorts (thus effectively becoming a DMG black hole more or less)?

All in all, what are we going to be using skill points for in particular, besides 'learning new skills'? Depending on how many aspects of the game depended on skill points, having 15 (at 2K posts) plus however many for events (I'd guess 10 at the very least by 2000 posts?) could turn out to be a huge surplus... Effectively a good, unique character could be produced with ~5 skills and reasonable stats; rather, the problem arises when everyone has every skill (al a Wyndisis, Arthur, and Korind, with every scroll in the book). In my opinion, that is...

Thoughts on this? Buying stats, skill point "economy", role of skill points besides "buying" skills?

[Jack]

How I have stats working at the moment is as follows:

There are five stats in all;STRength, DEFense, AGIlity, INTelligence, and SPIrit. STR affects how much damage you do per physical attack, DEF affects how much damage you take (high DEF can mitigate damage) or if you are hit, AGI determiens your chance to hit and boosts your ability to avoid damage, INT determines how much damage your spells do and gives bonuses to skill checks, and SPI determines your total MP plus your resistances (more on that in the future).

Stats are determined by one's base class (rather than race). SCHOLARS are very INT/SPI focused, with some in AGI. VAGABONDS are AGI/INT focused with some in STR, and GRUNTS are STR/DEF focused with some in AGI.

FYI, I will henceforth be renaming skill points "talent points" and skills as "talents." (Less confusing with skill checks already existing).

Because your base stats are low, you gain a small bonus to one stat based on your race (to show that a race is better at certain classes). Then, as you play your base quest, you will do a series of "training" quests which will reward you with enough talent points to specialize based on what is initially available for your base class in the talent book*. One you are officially specialized as a certian class, you may then begin picking at talents that would belong to other base classes at a penalty of increase point cost. Or, you can muddle your class a bit with related classes within your base class "tree". That is, Rangers have an easier time using some Thief talents that they would using Mercenary talents.

THe amount of stat boosting talents will be limited to prevent someone from front-loading themselves with all stat boosters, and moreover, certain talents that don't boost stats will affect other parts of your character: like damage from spells/attacks or chance to hit.

Speaking of spells, rather than the old system of spells automatically hitting, there will be a resistance system where you have to check a spell against a target's resistances to certain elements much like a melee class would check against DEF.

Talents can also add cool new abilities to your character, like there will be talents to learn particular languages, talents to gain proficiency in lock-picking, trap-setting (or disarming), the use of Damage-over-time poisons for weapons (this might be limited to Vagabonds for rp purposes though), the ability to upgrade what kind of armor you can use**, learn new spells, and more.

And light MG suggested, I was planning on having talents be spendable on learning to use new weapons. This would be cheapest from Grunts, med cost for Vagabonds, and expensive for Scholars. The upside is, not all weapons will be balanced and some will do more power than others to make up for the talent cost.

I want talents to be able to diversify your character from others, so you can bring a ability to the table that someone else might not be able to.

Oh, and a less important notice, you probably will be able to "drop" talents for an amount of rupees so you can spend that point elsewhere. This way we have a good money sink in the economy.

I still need to work out the ratio for talent points to levels/posts, but I like MG's system, so it will probably be along those lines.

* Basically, once you hit level five you will be eligible to specialize. You must complete five training quests, each which will focus on a core ability of your base class. As you complete the quests you can five talent points, and yet none for levelling 1-5. As you gain those initial five talent points, you must make sure that all five go to the same "branch" of your base class "tree" that will lead to a specialized class. Because this is a pretty important decision, players will be able to reset these initial "purchases" at no cost. But, once they specialize, they are stuck.
** Armor types will be limited to base classes, That is, scholars can only use Light, Vagabonds Light or Med, and Grunts Heavy, Light or Med. But, a Scholar could give up X number of talent points to use Medium armor and X*2 number of talent points to use Heavy.

[Master Goron]

I have it so it's 15 tp at 2k because it took me nearly 6 months to get that many posts. So it's not like anyone's gaining those that fast, I think...

And that 15's relative, it all depends on how much stuff will cost. That was designed to compensate for having to spend 3 to get a stat boost.

I mean without quests, there's only a 6 point stat increase total, or 9 non-class talents.

I was thinking we could use a shining soul-like talent system. With multiple(I was thinking 2-3) levels for skills, i.e. For Shiva:

Ranger L1(standard)
Ranger L2 * (increases all increases by 2)
Ranger L3 * * (Takes 1 less turn for power)

Weapons Training L1 * * (Standard)

Heal Spell L1 * (Heals 25%, 15 SPL)
Heal L2 * * (Heals 25%, 10 SPL)

Spear training * (Able to use a spear)
Spear L2 * * (STR +3)

Leadership L1 * (+2 to parties stats, or something)

Stats: * * *(DEF +2) , * * *(HP +1, ATK +1)

That would be using all of Shiva's 18 he would have gained in HA(without quests).

What if you had to spend talent points to learn new spells, or be able to use new weapons? That'd be a different way to use 'em...

For L3 Weapons, we should make them able to posibly block attacks. Or possibly Korind's knock-down/stun effect idea.

[weienw]

All RIGHT! There's the Narrator that we all know and love! I think that in the end, I'm actually okay with anything we come up with here (and chances are, if you guys like it, I'll love it), though I am slightly intimidated by the thought of "buying" stats, even if only to a small degree.

One paragraph did confuse me, though:

Because your base stats are low, you gain a small bonus to one stat based on your race (to show that a race is better at certain classes). Then, as you play your base quest, you will do a series of "training" quests which will reward you with enough talent points to specialize based on what is initially available for your base class in the talent book*. One you are officially specialized as a certian class, you may then begin picking at talents that would belong to other base classes at a penalty of increase point cost. Or, you can muddle your class a bit with related classes within your base class "tree". That is, Rangers have an easier time using some Thief talents that they would using Mercenary talents.

Is there a condensed explanation of that, or maybe an example of a player going through the steps? That would be really helpful!

Oh, and thanks to MG for clarifying how the 15 talent points would work; I was under the impression that 1 talent point would be 1 talent. Makes a lot more sense now.

And speaking of the "leadership" skill, I love the sound of party buffs... the advanced scribe skills were something that could have been really fun to have on someone back in HA... (if not very annoying to calculate for the poor GM).

Finally, for the weapons training (e.g. Shiva's Spear Training), I think that'd be a good talent... though I'm more in favor of having multiple levels of "Spear Mastery" and so on.

[Marin]

For weapon useage, we could use a level system like this.
Training=E
Deku=D
Bronze=C
Iron=B
Gilded=A
Magic=S
You start at level E and go up to S by hitting enemys with weapons. Recognize this MG?

[Master Goron]

Yep, weapons system from Fire Emblem... The more you use the weapon, the higher it's level gets, allowing you to use the next level of weapons.

[Jack]

I really like that Marin! I'll probably implement it as you have it. Though, weapon upgrades will be obtained via talent points, not usage.

[weienw]

Yes! That's exactly what I was hoping for (the talent points placed into "weapon mastery/skill")! Hopefully it'll allow for some really interesting melee builds...

Maybe a dual-wield talent point skill, to increase dual wield efficiency for certain/all(?) weapons?

[Jack Half a Prayer]

Might we hope for a narative bonus for good RP? even just a 1-5 point bonus would let players feel like they were in controll of things a little. Or perhaps good RP could alow players to earn back spirit. If we implemented these systems than players who RP'ed properly would be more capable and more sucsessful. It might make for a larger incentive to make the board more than a meat grinder.

At the fear of shifting the discussion away from an important topic, combat, I'm going to talk about magic for a second. Magic is a funny thing in LOZ. In most cases its very simple and very powerful, but it works more like a "zelda toy" (hook shot, gnat hat, etc) than a spell. Link never speaks to the dead, or uses clairvoyance, he never enchants his weapon, or reduces his enemies to a pillar of salt. We on the other hand will be using a magic system that will suport such things and not simply be powerful special effects bound to items. So, in my constant love of over working things I purpose a new magic system, see below. Magic is a raw untamed force. The very word entails power beyond the ken of mortal men. To this end, and to make a magic system that feels more like the actual use of magic I would like to change our current magic system. this is quite the over haul and I am very prepared to have it rejected entirely. but please read on.

Instead of having preprogramed spells we could use much more general spells that could be further defined. See below.

(Cost 4) Mental Command: Target's will is dominated by the will of the caster.
Modifiers:
Spell duration
Momentary:1
1-30 mins: 2
1 hour: 3
1 day: 4
1 week: 6
1 month: 7
1 year: 8
elements:
1:1
a few (3): 2
many (up to 7): 3
Many complex elements: 4
Tasks
Subject must preform 1 simple task: 5
multiple simple tasks: 6
One complex task: 7
Multiple complex tasks: 8
Spell Range:
Touch:1
with unaided sight: 2
few miles: 3
another city: 4
another country: 5
another time: 6
another dimension: 7
Subjects affected:
1:1
2-10:2
up to 100: 3
up to 1000: 4
an entire country: 5
subject is a wizard: 3
Subject is a daemon or other supernatural entity: 8
familiarity:
Know subject well 1
Barely know subject 2
Don't know subject 3
subject is totally unknown to you: 4

So lets say our dear wizard wishes to make a stall owner give him a reasonable price on a piece of fruit. He casts mental command, at a cost of 4, and applies the following parameters:


Base cost: 4
1-30 mins: 2
1 element (give me fair price on piece of fruit):1
1 task: 5
Unaided sight: 2
1 subject: 1
Don't know subject (local merchant, human, we know what he is, but we don't know WHO) 3
Total 18!
The wizards rank in Spirit would be subtracted from this total giving more powerful wizards a benefit.

This alone could be adopted very simply and allow for custom spells and much more freedom as to how spell casting works. All we would have to do is cook up the spell list and their base cost.
But wait there's more!
How does one gather the power to preform such a spell? Well we would roll a D20 and see what kind of energy he was able to gather
Magic would come in four varieties:
Hearts (D20 1-5): mental and emotional
Diamonds: (D20 6-10): Physical magic. Atoms, shape and form
Clubs: (D20 11-15): elemental magic, earth air fire water wood.
Spades (D20 16-20): Spirit. Ghosts, clairvoyance, gateways.
When you rolled a dice you would consult the folowing table:
1: 1 of hearts
2: 2 of hearts
3: 3 of hearts
4: 4 of hearts
5: 5 of hearts
6: 1 of Diamonds
7: 2 of Diamonds
8: 3 of Diamonds
9: 4 of Diamonds
10: 5 of Diamonds
11: 1 of Clubs
12: 2 of Clubs
13: 3 of Clubs
14: 4 of Clubs
15: 5 of Clubs
16: 1 of Spades
17: 2 of Spades
18: 3 of Spades
19: 4 of Spades
20: 5 of Spades
This way a player gains a "hand" of energy with which to spend on the spell. All spells would have an alignment, and when a player wanted to cast a spell they could spend magic points as "wild cards" and/or start drawing magic. Any point played out of suit counts only as one point and causes harmonics. For instance if you played the 5 of spades in the mental command spell listed above your wish for a fair price would be cast on the shop keeper but it would also manifest itself as a spirit. A powerful one too, because it was the 5! This spirit is based in the wish for fairness so it would go around and wreak "justice" for as long as the spell is supposed to take effect.

If anyone likes these Ideas I'll post the other harmonics. But for now my arms are tired.

[Jack]

Totally, Jack Hp. I'll think of some kind of reward for good rping (talent points may be a bit much). I'm open to suggestions as well.

[Jack Half a Prayer]

I meant in combat specificly. It would be nice to see more than I hit him agian. I hit him again...

[Jack]

Agreed, the combat system could stand to be livened up more. I could see perhaps a "best rper" award being given per group event, with that person getting an extra talent point along with whatever else they earned.

[Marin]

A suggestion for ranged weapons
Weapon   DMG Range
Hand Axe   high   25ft
Javalin        MH    50ft
Short Bow   M      75ft
Bow           ML    100ft
Long Bow     L     150ft

[Jack Half a Prayer]

Particularly a 1-5 point bonus to people's rolls for good RP. so...example

Cassanda swings her sword in a arc, slaming into her oponent's leg. 1 point bonus to ATK roll.

Casandra brings her blade around in an arc, there is a moment when the light catches it just right, the sun flares off its razor edge before the motion continues down toward the mobiln's vunerable throat. 2 point bonus to ATK roll.

Casandra's vorpal blade hangs in the air, the light gleaming of its mirrored surface. In it's quicsilver glare you can see her smile, wild, wide, joyful. The blade completes it motion, smooth, simple. There is no wasted motion. There are no curves. Her foe's chest fountains blood as he falls to the ground with a crash or steel and bone. She shakes the blood, which falls with the light patter of rain,  from her blade and sheaths it. 3 point bonus to atack roll.