Ideas thread.

[Master Goron]

OK, thanks... now I understand. I like it, but I could see it getting in the way more than anything. Think of it this way, a mage needs to spend 3+ turns(and most battles lasted 1-2 rounds anyway) trying to get the card for the spell, and in that time, most of the enemies would be dead. Say we have 6 people questing, that mage has to let 5 attacks go just to use it(once they draw it), and I would see most people just using whatever card they had accepting the -5 penalty, since it would not do much anyway.

What if say the spell(from your post) costs 6. You draw cards in one turn until your total is > cost. So you get a 16(1S), a 3(3D), and a 10(5H). Total = 9, and then for every extra point, and every card aligned with the spell(Spades-Fire) you take a point from the cost. That way 9-6=3, 3-1=2. The spell would cost 2 SPI to use. That way, spells take a round to power up, cancelling out their auto-hit bonus. Also, you could get a -2 for your card being drawn. Thought?

[Jack Half a Prayer]

Well this one comes down to how you envision magic. My thoughts are magic is not the kind of thing you just whip out, its Thaumaturgy, a science. You have to focus, meditate, work out the equations, or the stuff hits the fan. Screwing around in the fabric of reality should be done with caution. Magic is slow. Magic takes time. Magic is very, very, powerful. And if used wrong, than, your skin becomes a seperate living entity. A hungry one. Get the picture?
Now, that said, maybe thats now how we want magic to work. This isn't my game, I'm only giving people options. I hated the old magic system, it was too powerful, too fast, too TOO! magic needs to be weakened. That is why I purposed this system. As for battles being ended before the mage can cast the spell, well and good, make the battles harder and longer, that is up to the GM.

Igneous, its getting close! DO SOMETHING!

The shuriken that flew from Tom's hand rebound off the monster's thick hide and imbed themselves in the walls, floor, everywhere. One takes a moblin in the eye, but the Dodongo keeps coming...

Almost there She mutters between her teeth in a sour singsong voice. Just keep it back...

Now, perhaps this isn't how everyone else want's magic to work. Perhaps it's too complicated. Ok. set it aside. I've no problem. I like it. But I am not in charge, nor am I everyone else. I'm not arrogant enough to insist on it. Just thought I'd present it as an option.

I still don't think you understand how my purposed system works. the -5 penalty goes for attacking, jumping, running, defending, romancing, any sort of action your doing while drawing or holding magic. Magic requires focus. Magic requires that you put your mind and heart into the effort of binding reality to your will. You CAN defend a blow from a moblin while doing this, just don't expect it to work real well. This is to make it so that people can't be invunerable with magic like they could in the last game. A mage in the last game could run around throwing bursts and empty a room in two turns, a major reason that the combat ended so fast. But what if that mage had to sit still and focus that spell for 3 turns while you protected them? suddenly we've got a whole new play style. If a mage fails, fumbles, or takes damage, they lose their "hand" and have to start over again.

edited this about 7 times now...

I don't think I've addressed your point yet.

I don't like fast magic. Thats me. I'm curious about what the rest of the group has to say. My thoughs are  HELL NO! but thats because I like my system. It's not my game (he said again). If the group is against me, than more power to them, I won't begrudge anyone for different opinions.

Fire away

[Jack]

You guys are free to use the playing card system for your own events in HA2, but for official events the dice-based rules will apply.

Attached is the beginning of the rules set in .doc format. This is bare bones version of what it will be in the end, as I still have to add stuff like the rest of the talents, the leadership system, the willpower system, and a few other tidbits.

I will post the complete rule set sometime this weekend, and give you guys the next week to express your concerns over what is present.

Starting monday I will begin work on the "world" of HA2. If all goes accoridng to plan, the game will be done by the end of May. Hopefully it will be done much earlier than that, like halfway through.

[weienw]

I have to go in just a second, but I thought I'd mention a few things first...

I hated the old magic system, it was too powerful, too fast, too TOO! magic needs to be weakened.

"Powerful" is tough to gauge... the way I saw it, magic was pretty balanced in the way that it neither dominated (was always better than) melee nor fell to the wayside as a waste of turns/SPL (yea, you're right, this is coming from an HA1 mage). While someone with a good hammer or pair of swords could do 29-30 DMG without using any SPL (providing their ATT was high enough), the maximum DMG for a spell-caster was 20 DMG, for Fire (save for Fire against Zoras, and for the Prestige Cleric spells which we never saw). Thus, (offensive) magic was generally the thing to use in 1) ranged situations and 2) situations where the caster's ATT was too low (something pretty common in the case of all the mages).

But true, magic was very "fast" (though two bursts might take down one moblin, not a whole room of them). The problem with requiring 2-3 turns for an effective spell would be that most mages would be excluded from duel-type combat--that is, save the ones who invested heavily in physical abilities and saved magic for icing on the cake (which does not quite describe the mages that we read about...). I don't know how Korind could have won any of his one-on-one's without his certain brand of fast and powerful magic (unless the opponent was considerably lower leveled, stupider, poorly equipped, and/or rolled 1's all the time).

Granted, a few of the spells were obviously very powerful. One of these was "Splash." This is the proverbial "kill-all-the-moblins-in-the-room-with-2-casts" (providing that the caster had 40 or more SPL). The other that comes readily to mind are the 50% heals... more often than not it came down to having to kill 2-3 Korinds instead of just one (I think Shiva and Striker can testify to that?).

Which brings us to Narrator's awesome tentative rule document... just looking at it makes me all excited and worried about what to do for character creation! Awesome stuff, Narrator! One thing I noticed in the Spell list for HA2 was "L3: Full Heal: 5 TP." Granted, it's a truck load of TP (10 total to get there), but I think that someone like Korind (who's main drive in life is healing people) would not have too much problem getting their hands on L3 Life, especially after getting to about level 6-7. Could be pretty (too?) wieldy, to say the least...

Also, I wasn't sure how the Fairy spell would fit in with "Life" (what level would it count as?). But all in all, the spells look like they're going to be a lot of fun (which is an understatement).

For weapons, are throwing knives the only weapons available to Vagabonds? And do weapons differ from one another at all (besides RP)? I was also wondering what exactly S, V, and G stood for in the Talent book... is it the different amounts of costs needed for learning weapons not of your own base class (I guess which would explain the Vagabond throwing knife thing)?

For subclasses, are there any major significances besides roleplay (maybe under "New Abilities" and I should just be patient)?

Whew. Yep, those are some of my questions ^_^. Sorry if you feel badgered... though it sounds like the old Korind is back--"pestering, annoying, go-away-Korind" and all. :D Oh, and one last thing--I think that "Shadowmeld" will be an awesome skill. At first I thought, "no one's going to use that!" until I thought about it for a second. And realized the extensive potential of the skill, particularly in one-on-one dual-type battles.  ;)

[Jack]

It's not mentioned in the rules set, but each base class starts with the ability to use one basic weapon. Grunts (G) can use 1H swords, Vagabonds (V) daggers, and Scholars (S) staffs. The "class requirements" for training in each weapon doesn't mean that only one class can use the weapon, it just establishes the cost scale for training.

Example: A bow is a Grunt weapon. There in according to the cost scale, it would cost a Grunt 1TP to train to use it, Vagabonds 2 TP, and Scholars 3TP.

Cost Scale is as follows...
Costs: SCHOLAR (1 S, 2 V, 3 G); VAGABOND (1 V, 2 G, 3 S); GRUNT (1 G, 2 V, 3 S).

G= Grunt
V= Vagabond
S= Scholar

Weapons other than the basic ones will be more powerful.

A Fairy having Fairy cast on it will be scaled to what life would be. That is, L3 Fairy cast on Fairy is like casting L3 life on it.

The subclasses will have specific talents available to only them, to make the difference palpable.

[Master Goron]

I think Korind was commenting on the fact that the only base weapon for Vagabonds is a dagger. Whereas Scholars have a choice(slingshot/cane), and Grunts have even more choices(2H Hammer/Bow/2H Sword/Spear). Basically this limits theives, rangers and bards to daggers, unless they want to spend double tp.

[Jack]

Hmm, good point. I'll probably add Short Bow, for the Ranger aspect, Quarterstaff for all, and a Garrote (choking wire) that only Thieves can use.

[weienw]

Waow... Garrote. *makes "URK" sound* Definitely cool.

each base class starts with the ability to use one basic weapon.

Does this mean that everyone starts with L1 in the most basic of their weapons?

Oh, and one thing that this reminds me of that we've brought up here and there... is "weaponless" fighting, or fist-fighting. Have you considered punching and kicking as means of damage dealing at all? If there would be reasons to use it besides role-play, I think it could work well with the talent point system...

[Jack]

Does this mean that everyone starts with L1 in the most basic of their weapons?

Oh, and one thing that this reminds me of that we've brought up here and there... is "weaponless" fighting, or fist-fighting. Have you considered punching and kicking as means of damage dealing at all?

Yeah, each class will begin with L1 in their basic weapons. I need to put the basic weapons on the list as well.

As for hand to hand combat, I can definitely see a series of talents, like weapons training, that allows you to "harden" your extremities for use in combat. I'll put that on the list.

[weienw]

Another thing I was wondering about was dual-wielding. I know that in HA1 the only weapon that non-soldiers could double up on were swords, and the "Gilded sword + Hylian shield" vs "2 Gilded swords" options were very balanced in terms of advantages. Two thumbs up!

Will double wielding work similarly in HA2? Granted, we don't have too many weapons that could be dual wielded so far (obviously not bows, slings, and anything that starts with "2H"), but if we did add some in, like:

-1H sword (which you mentioned as an entry level weapon already)
-magic wand (a la theWW or early Zelda games? who knows! ^_^)
-hookshot/longshot
-boomerang
-Deku stick (Dunno, I'm sure we could come up with some advantages)
-Or any of the weapons that Zelda enemies have debuted? Curved gerudo blades, small dinalfos daggers (which were mentioned as entry level weapons), etc?

I was thinking that after a certain amount of mastery (TP invested in) of a weapon, dual wielding could become an option (while, perhaps, using a shield is a given from the beginning)? Maybe if someone was adept (a certain level) in both boomerang using and fencing, they could wield a 'rang and a sword at the same time (well, that brings up two-target fighting, which could be a bit much... :D)? Viability? Thoughts? Maybe dual wielding could be a whole talent point thingie in itself (L1: 50% potential for 2nd weapon, L2: 75% potential for 2nd weapon, L3: 100% potential for 2nd weapon...)?

And on the topic of weapons, have you considered the explosive, one-use types? Namely bombs and deku nuts? Also the distinctive "Goodbye Link" thing that Shiek uses in OOT (POOF, *Link looks around in wonder*)... maybe a Shiekah or Vagabond exclusive?

Please pardon me if you feel pressed/rushed... I do realize that there are a lot of things still pending (like Bard items, hehe); thanks for your work/time!

[Jack]

For dual wield there was going to be a talent to be able to do so in combat. L1 has a 50% DMG reduction on the off-hand weapon, and each subsequent level reduces the reduction so the offhand weapon becomes more damaging.

I'll probably be adding more weapons in the future, but for now what I've already mentioned plus what's in the rule set so far.

Now, on to more ascetic matters for a moment: tell me what you think of this idea...

On each page, in addition to the name of the area you are in plus the brief description, there will be a small screen of what the area looks like rendered with BS-Zelda-esque graphics. Sometimes you may be able to click certain objects on the screen, say a rock to uncover a hidden stair case. Otherwise you could just use the compass to move ahead. Is this a good idea? (The little area image, that is).

Thoughts?

[weienw]

Well, it depends... how well will the hidden link be hidden? Will it be a 1 pixel by 1 pixel dot in HTML? If so, I think that it can still be spotted if the user tries to highlight it, and in the end, they can always "view source" their way to enlightenment, I think ^^ (Sorry if I just spoiled anything for you).

That could be avoided with little .swf flash files, but that's a whole 'nother (and very time-consuming) story. But I guess I'm just wondering if the hidden link will be able to accomplish its true purpose without exasperated clickers (like me) just finding their way through brainlessly? (JackHP can attest to the fact that things are very hard to hide on the internet.)

Then again... maybe I'm misinterpreting you completely and the clickable items are meant to be found? Like a door in a house leading to another room in the house sort of thing?

[Jack]

I was actually thinking like, if you have an image of the area, say 200x200 in size. There is a rock on the screen that has a staircase under it, so to say. Click on the rock (using image maps) and you'll load the page that is the room under the rock.

[weienw]

Ah, ok... so they wouldn't necessarily need to be hidden from unknowing eyes (and clicks)? That would make sense then, maybe even for navigating through a large building (mansion/castle). Click a door, get to the next room.

I think it'd be cool, only... would it be worth the work, on your part? From what I remember of my sister doing image-map heavy html, it's a lot of grunty short-term memorizing of coordinates (with it getting all the worse if you have something round, like a rock). But yea, that could definitely be a fun addition to the role-play feel. ^^

[Jack]

It'll be easy if I used an image map program (automatically coords the pic for you). THe only tricky part is making all the images, but I think I can find a way around that.