You know that bird looking thing? Well there is a lot of people saying it is a pheonix. Not here in particular but on other places and i thought you guys (and girls) might wanna know why I think it is not a pheonix but a Roc. First; The Roc's feather, It has to come from somewhere. Secondly; The Kargoroc in the Twilight princess, It has a second form in the twilight realm that has a face strangely Triangle shaped, no? Also there is no evidence in any game that says there is a pheonix (then again it has been a while since I've played them all). This Topic is open for dscussion and I will reply when I can. Phew... What a mouthful... :-X
That seems to be quite a stretch, saying the Hyrulean Royal Family symbol is a Roc, especially in your second point, as Twilight Kargarocs exist in, well, the Twilight Realm and not Hyrule itself. If Twilight Kargarocs do not exist in Hyrule, why would the Roc become a symbol of the Royal Family? And looking at the picture of a Twilight Kargaroc Tacheon posted in the Bongo Bongo = Sheikah thread, I see a circle-shaped head, not a triangle-shaped one.
QuoteIf Twilight Kargarocs do not exist in Hyrule, why would the Roc become a symbol of the Royal Family?
Yeah, yeah, I know the question can also apply to phoenixes, but phoenixes are mythological creatures and seem more likely to be the symbol for the Hyrulean Royal Family, despite the lack of in-game evidence.
I guess it just becomes a matter of preference, as it's shaky evidence vs. no evidence (at least not any that I'm aware of). Personally, the phoenix is a much more powerful symbol for the Royal Family than anything else, especially when you consider the number of times Hyrule is thrown into jeopardy.
I think the game designers probably thought it looked cool.
Doesn't sound like a stretch at all to me. Phoenixes are known mostly for their tails, and the Hyrulean Family Crest's bird has a very plain tail, it would otherwise most likely be the centerpiece.
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/thumb/8/8b/Crest_of_Hyrule.svg/300px-Crest_of_Hyrule.svg.png)
All of the allusions to Rocs in the game(s) make it a perfectly logical conclusion that the bird in the crest is a Roc.
Also,
(http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/user/2/2784-71429-RocsFeatherjpg-550x.jpg)
Roc's Feather.
(http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/thumb/5/52/TwilitKargarok.png/200px-TwilitKargarok.png)
Shadow Kargarok. Shadow cannot exist without light-- that must mean there is a Light Kargarok out there.
Wait for it...
wait for it...
wait for it...
(http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/thumb/9/92/Kargorok.jpg/300px-Kargorok.jpg)
(http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/thumb/f/f7/Zeldatpmagic.jpg/180px-Zeldatpmagic.jpg)
(hard to see, but it should refresh your memory).
EDIT: Shika, everything in the Zelda theory section is arbitrary in that the game designers don't necessarily always stick to canon.
Quote from: Hi no Seijin on December 20, 2008, 11:03:44 AM
Yeah, yeah, I know the question can also apply to phoenixes, but phoenixes are mythological creatures and seem more likely to be the symbol for the Hyrulean Royal Family, despite the lack of in-game evidence.
Roc's are mytical creatures too. Ever heard of sinbad? Sorry if that sounded snotty but it's true
Gah! That's why I keep out of this section! ???
Anywho, points taken, both of you.
While you're theorizing, you might want to theorize what the Roc would mean in the crest. Why the Royal Family would be represented by a Roc is beyond me at this point. Strength, maybe? I dunno; I still think the Phoenix is a more appropriate symbol.
Maybe because that Hyrule is so vast and the Roc supposed to be the largest bird?
The Phoenix represents, at its core, rebirth. However, anyone who's played TWW would understand that that isn't exactly a fitting symbol for the Hylean Royal Family.
A Roc represents strength, life, size, regality, all that and more. Surely a fitting symbol for the once vast Hyrule?
My mind = blown thank you Davey
Quote from: Davy Jones on December 23, 2008, 07:29:33 PM
The Phoenix represents, at its core, rebirth. However, anyone who's played TWW would understand that that isn't exactly a fitting symbol for the Hylean Royal Family.
A Roc represents strength, life, size, regality, all that and more. Surely a fitting symbol for the once vast Hyrule?
Didn't Link and Tetra go off to look for a new Hyrule? The rebirth isn't instantaneous, but it's still there in a fashion.
Meh, I still think it's a matter of preference.
What was ganondorfs giant bird in WW? Was it helmasaur king? I think it had to do with rocs. HNS also the Pheonix rebirth was instantaneous. but i guess your right too.
Helmaroc King.
And while I do see your point with the Roc thing, I'm still calling artistic license.
Touche. But that does not mean i change my Theory.
I always thought it was an owl... I have no idea why. :-[
I could understand owl thing cause of Kaepora Gaebora.
I dont think its right because look at the picture, it just doesnt seem right. ;)
Thats hilarious Lolz ;D
Isnt it? I made it myself! ;D
Anyway, I think that the bird could be the pheonix, because it represents rebirth and that would make sense because of Link being reencarnated in every game, which is very similar. :)
But the hyrulian royal family probably didn't know about link when they decided on symbol.
Quote from: linkdragon0 on December 25, 2008, 06:04:16 AM
But the hyrulian royal family probably didn't know about link when they decided on symbol.
"Hero of Legends"?
...just saying, I would assume they did.
Link wasn't always around.
Yeah but whenever he's not there they are always looking forward to him returning. It seems like in every game people are telling you how much they were looking forward to when the Hero of Legends would return. So there. :P
But Link wasn't even heard of before the first game (Whatever timeline you follow). The Hero of time wasn't always needed. So they could've chosen it back then.
But I dont remember them even having the symbol yet in the first game.
The first Zelda game, "The Legend of Zelda", is not canonically "the first game" as according to the timeline. In fact, if you think about it it can't be the first game-- since the whole reason the Triforce was fragmented was because of something to do with the original Hero of Time. :P
That's true. But then what game is first? :-\
Anyway, some of link's shields shows a winged figure (towards the bottom of the shield) which I am guessing is related. :)
its on his shield in WW and OoT and others.
I Think Minish cap is first. You know, with the refering to Hero as Gustaf and not Link.
Quote from: linkdragon0 on December 30, 2008, 04:02:48 PM
its on his shield in WW and OoT and others.
I Think Minish cap is first. You know, with the refering to Hero as Gustaf and not Link.
This is correct. The first game according to the most recent indisputable timeline is Minish Cap.
Quote from: linkdragon0 on December 30, 2008, 04:02:48 PM
its on his shield in WW and OoT and others.
Yeah those ones! Is that the same bird do you think? ;D
It's Definately the same symbol. it's also on MC shield. It's on all of them except the few that have lower powered graphics.
So can you tell what its face is like? :-\
And also I thought of yesterday:
So MC is supposed to be first right? Well then they did know about the hero of legends in the first game because you hear about that one guy Gustaf (I think thats his name) at the beginning of the game. HAHAHA! ;D
I doubt it cause It says gustaf came from a far away land. I thinks...
Quote from: ZeldafreaK on January 02, 2009, 09:14:48 AM
So can you tell what its face is like? :-\
And also I thought of yesterday:
So MC is supposed to be first right? Well then they did know about the hero of legends in the first game because you hear about that one guy Gustaf (I think thats his name) at the beginning of the game. HAHAHA! ;D
I fail to see your point. There can be an endless number of heroes.
Hmmm... Very true...
If there are so many heros then how could people not know about them? :P
I bet you 999 rupees that the very first Hyrulian didn't know.
I bet you 999 rupees that the very first Hyrulian didn't make the crest.
betcha 999 rupees and a bag 'o bombchu's that is correct.
Quote from: ZeldafreaK on January 02, 2009, 01:39:14 PM
If there are so many heros then how could people not know about them? :P
I never said that. I'm still trying to figure out what the point is.
Also, watch the spamming guys.
Quote from: ZeldafreaK on January 02, 2009, 01:39:14 PM
If there are so many heros then how could people not know about them? :P
Give enough time, any hero's name or deeds could be forgotten by history. Their actions may not even be recorded. Heroism isn't always saving a land from evil, nor is it always as grand as saving someone's life.
And at what point in TMC did it say that Gustaf 1.) was the hero mentioned in the back story and 2.) came from a far away land? At the beginning of the game, the hero was given no name (at least he wasn't in the PAL version, which is the one I have). I also don't remember Gustaf claiming to come from a distant land.
It's also the story of the four sword from four swords. It does too mention his name.
I'm pretty sure he isn't mentioned, both at the beginning of TMC and in FS. Gustaf was a former king of Hyrule, and only appears (at least by name) in TMC, and his only role is to give you the Kinstone that opens the path further into Veil Falls.
Also, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that TMC is the back story to FS. TMC =/= FS back story. It doesn't come close to being the same.
No four swords mentions a boy coming from somewhere with only a sword and upon drawing sword he splits into 4. The same story is told in MC and they called him gustaf. Very beginning scene. I remember it cause it was WW-esque.
Yeah, I started a new file on my copy of TMC, and Gustaf was not mentioned once in the opening sequence. Unless you're telling me the PAL version has different text than the NTSC version, Gustaf isn't named as the hero.
In the FS back story, the Four Sword already exists. In TMC, the Four Sword is created. Yeah, TMC =/= FS back story, nor does TMC and FS have the same back story.
No the four sword is re forged. You know what if you argue back i give up.
TMC back story doesn't give the sword a name. Once the game itself begins, it starts out as the Picori Blade, and when it's reforged it's called the White Sword. It's not called the Four Sword until after you infuse it with the power of the Wind Element.
Look, I'm not trying to discourage you; I'm just giving you what I know to be truth.
Okay fine. I give up you win. You may now deliver coup de grace I'm prone. I too are a D'n'D Freak.
I knew I heard gustaf somewhere but i wasnt sure who it was but yeah it is the king guy that sounds right. But in the very beginning remember it tells you a legend about a hero that locked away all the evil monsters. :)