Is it remotely possible for MC to be first?

[darkphantomime]

The thing is there is no tangent evidence that Ganondorf was reincarnated in OoT. In OoT, we find out how he gets his power to begin with, by getting the triforce of power, which makes that the first time he ever found such great power so as to keep him immortal.

If he were reincarnated, by what powers would his spirit remain immortal? It's already been seen that the triforce of power is the source of his continued existence. Even the His last lines in OoT make point to this.

[Mysterious F.]

Well, kinda. It's a bit confusing considering his EXACT words, though.

[Evilslayer]

And guess what? Ganon(dorf) was killed at the end of TWW, TP, ALttP, TLoZ, and the Oracles. Like I said that's only proof if you believe FSA already comes earlier, which is, of course, circular logic.

I think it's pretty damn good evidence that FSA comes after at least one of those games.<_< Or at least one game with Ganon. It also shows that Ganon has been REINCARNATED at least once, which is exactly my point.

The thing is there is no tangent evidence that Ganondorf was reincarnated in OoT. In OoT, we find out how he gets his power to begin with, by getting the triforce of power, which makes that the first time he ever found such great power so as to keep him immortal.

Ask yourself this. Why exactly did the Sages suddenly decide to build the Temple of Time? Could it be that something happened that made them realize they needed to protect the gates to the Golden Land? Tell me where it is stated that OoT is the first time Ganon gets his hands on the Triforce.

If he were reincarnated, by what powers would his spirit remain immortal? It's already been seen that the triforce of power is the source of his continued existence. Even the His last lines in OoT make point to this.

There's no evidence that even suggests that the Triforce of Power is the source of Ganon's immortality.

[Commodore Axilon]

I think it's pretty damn good evidence that FSA comes after at least one of those games.<_< Or at least one game with Ganon. It also shows that Ganon has been REINCARNATED at least once, which is exactly my point.

Yes, and all those games come after OoT. That was my point.

Ask yourself this. Why exactly did the Sages suddenly decide to build the Temple of Time? Could it be that something happened that made them realize they needed to protect the gates to the Golden Land? Tell me where it is stated that OoT is the first time Ganon gets his hands on the Triforce.

Ask yourself this. Why exactly do you think it had anything to do with Ganon? That's just a completely baseless assumption. There could've been a million other things that caused the ToT to be built. There's no reason to assume it had anything to do with Ganon.

There's no evidence that even suggests that the Triforce of Power is the source of Ganon's immortality.

So why do you think he's managed to live so long?

[Eralk Fang]

Personally, I think The Minish Cap is one of the first games set in New Hyrule, and definitely not first in the timeline. But just to chime in on this...

quote]Ask yourself this. Why exactly did the Sages suddenly decide to build the Temple of Time? Could it be that something happened that made them realize they needed to protect the gates to the Golden Land? Tell me where it is stated that OoT is the first time Ganon gets his hands on the Triforce.

Ask yourself this. Why exactly do you think it had anything to do with Ganon? That's just a completely baseless assumption. There could've been a million other things that caused the ToT to be built. There's no reason to assume it had anything to do with Ganon.

One could conclude the "fierce war" of Link's infancy was over dominion of the Sacred Realm; the entrance is at the heart of the Hylian territory before unification, and the Hylians may have tried to "protect it", but the other races may have wanted access, and we have a very messy war. The Temple of Time could have easily been built around the entrance to the Sacred Realm, independent of the war, with the opening mechanism put in place after unification.

[Commodore Axilon]

Exactly, that's as good a theory as any. I don't see why everyone has to assume some great evil has to have been caused by Ganon. I don't remember any rule stating he's the only ne'er-do-well in the Zelda-verse. Vaati, anyone? Majora? Two of possibly hundreds of people who've caused trouble in Hyrule over the years.

I, quite frankly, am sick and tired of all the Ganon worship. That's not to say I don't like Ganon, I think he's one of the best villains in video gaming. But to say he's behind every single bad thing that happens in Hyrule, is, in my opinion, giving him far too much credit.

...Especially before he was even born.

[Mysterious F.]

There's no proof that Ganon could have lived before OOT, but no proof against it either. Except the following timelines which are collected from quotes made by game designers, we have no idea the order:

OOT/MM --> LOZ/AOL --> LTTP

        l --> Adult --> TWW/PH
        l
OOT -->
         l
         l --> Child/MM --> TP

And also, Commodore, please FOR ONCE give us proof to back up your theory about reincarnation. You've only been giving us proof against your idea.

[Commodore Axilon]

I'm not gonna try to prove a negative, Whocares, because it's impossible. There's just no evidence for Ganon having lived before OoT, so I see no reason to assume he did. Especially when it's used as evidence for TMC/FS/FSA taking place first (see Evilslayer's argument) because that's just one giant mess of circular logic.

[Vaati]

Ganondorf was killed in the Oracles, too!  

Let's face it, Ganon is invincable! Everytime you kill him, he comes back to life! I don't even know why Link and Zelda try.  

[Mysterious F.]

Actually, only his spirit will survive, his body will die again, and again, and again. (LOZ; LTTP (twice, even); Oracles; TWW; FSA; TP)(Defeated but not destroyed in OOT)

[Evilslayer]

Yes, and all those games come after OoT. That was my point.

How much energy does it take to understand my point? IF HE CAN BE REINCARNATED AS A GERUDO ONCE IT CAN HAPPEN MORE THAN ONCE!

Ask yourself this. Why exactly do you think it had anything to do with Ganon? That's just a completely baseless assumption. There could've been a million other things that caused the ToT to be built. There's no reason to assume it had anything to do with Ganon.

Why did the SAGES build the Temple, and not just the Hylian people in general? Besides, Ganon is the arch nemesis of Hyrule. Although there have been other villains trying to conquer Hyrule the Sages always seem to appear ONLY when Ganon have been up to no good.

So why do you think he's managed to live so long?

Black magic? You forget the times he lives that long WITHOUT the Triforce of Power. In the first game he invades Hyrule and takes the Triforce of Power, and in ALttP he lives for generations in the Dark World without it.

One could conclude the "fierce war" of Link's infancy was over dominion of the Sacred Realm; the entrance is at the heart of the Hylian territory before unification, and the Hylians may have tried to "protect it", but the other races may have wanted access, and we have a very messy war. The Temple of Time could have easily been built around the entrance to the Sacred Realm, independent of the war, with the opening mechanism put in place after unification.

Problem is, the "fierce war" was a decade earlier. The Ancient Sages are... ancient.

Especially before he was even born.

And I'd like to see where you've got that evidence.

I'm not gonna try to prove a negative, Whocares, because it's impossible. There's just no evidence for Ganon having lived before OoT, so I see no reason to assume he did. Especially when it's used as evidence for TMC/FS/FSA taking place first (see Evilslayer's argument) because that's just one giant mess of circular logic.

Ahem...

I think it's pretty damn good evidence that FSA comes after at least one of those games.<_< Or at least one game with Ganon. It also shows that Ganon has been REINCARNATED at least once, which is exactly my point.

And you quoted that at the top of your post. How did you miss it?

[Commodore Axilon]

How much energy does it take to understand my point? IF HE CAN BE REINCARNATED AS A GERUDO ONCE IT CAN HAPPEN MORE THAN ONCE!

Because it's just unfounded speculation. And something happening once doesn't necessarily mean it happened before.

Why did the SAGES build the Temple, and not just the Hylian people in general? Besides, Ganon is the arch nemesis of Hyrule. Although there have been other villains trying to conquer Hyrule the Sages always seem to appear ONLY when Ganon have been up to no good.

Once again: unfounded speculation. You know I could say they built it because space aliens were invading Hyrule and were after the Triforce, and it would be just as probable as what you're saying. You see you have no evidence, only "ZOMG hes ben reincarnated b4!" Which following your argument to its conclusion, would mean Ganon has existed for all of eternity with no beginning and no end.

He is the alpha and the omega.

Black magic? You forget the times he lives that long WITHOUT the Triforce of Power. In the first game he invades Hyrule and takes the Triforce of Power, and in ALttP he lives for generations in the Dark World without it.

Yeah, I concede this point.

Problem is, the "fierce war" was a decade earlier. The Ancient Sages are... ancient.

You know, there was that whole war mentioned in TP...

And I'd like to see where you've got that evidence.

Fine I admit it, Ganon could've been the reincarnation of some ancient daemon (lol at added "a"), but he also could be Tupac in disguise come from another dimension to hide from his paparazzi pursuers. You see how easy it is to pull stuff out of my *ss with no evidence?

Ahem...

[snip]

And you quoted that at the top of your post. How did you miss it?

Well, then excuse me for being confused as to what the fark we're arguing about. You're telling me that you believe TMC/FS/FSA comes after OoT?

[Marcamillian]

I couldn't find the original start of this thread in the stroyline section and im pretty sure ive read all of this thread. Now can someone remind me where the whole cap thing was resolved. In alot of the games the "uniform" of the hero is green and INCLUDES the cap (even in OoT). However the whole elzo thing suggests that this is where the cap came from. Now in the opening of MC the evil shown overtaking the land is gannon (that is pig form gannon and not gannondorf, meaning that gannon might have existed as a demon before gannondorf was around )

Now... the hero shown in the next couple of frames shows the hero.. clearly WITHOUT the cap. Now.. exactly which hero is this suppost to be showing? The stained glass windows show what appears the be the master sword.. not the white sword you use in the game. Though the picori sword is suppost to be the sword of ledgend, it is clearly purple not blue as in the opening sequence. The only time it is blue is in the 3rd stage.

I think that the minish cap could very well be the 1st in the timeline. and i've always felt that people believe OoT to be first due to something said a good deal of time ago now and because it was the first zelda to expand the story of the creation.

[Mysterious F.]

This is getting really pointless.

Commodore, Ganon was reincarnated as a Gerudo in FSA, disproving what you said about it being unfounded.

After seeing TP, I believe the TOT was built after the Twilight Realm thing after the Creation of Hyrule so the Triforce could be protected to a point.

We aren't discussing the cap any more, you know. I have no idea just exactly what we're discussing. Ganon's reincarnations, mabye?

Also, Commodore, if you use anything that could be considered a sensored banned word (like *ss and fawk) it will count as cussing and will get you a warning. You've used it too much to ignore.

[Marcamillian]

Hmmm.... last time i checked the thread was called "is is possible that the minish cap came 1st" and i think that the cap is an important factor in that. If the issues been resolved could someone please tell me what the conclusoin you reached was because it seems alot more relevent than the reincarnation of gannon owing to the fact the gannon only appears in Minish Cap in the opening titles as gannon not gannondorf.