Is it remotely possible for MC to be first?

[Mysterious F.]

I think my theory in "Is it remotely possible for TMC to be first?" topic (now in the Theories) should take care of my side. Feel free to look.

[LadyNintendo]

we need more people with this topic... it gets kinda boring if we just fight each other without anyone caring...

But I gotta agree with what Vaati said.

Well dûh! You said the same thing too! And I already said it's VERY unlikely that OOT Link was the first, if only for the reason the Master Sword, like the Four Sword, was already legendary in those games. Why if it never has been used and proven its worth? And even if the original wielder of the Master Sword was not a Link, why doesn't he gets mentioned in OOT? OOT clearly shows it's not the beginning of time and important events, but it doesn't mention anything about those events either. TMC does, it's just honest about it. And Ganondorf has probably already caused trouble before OOT too, but we don't learn any details about that either.

Also, we're not fighting. We're debating. :)

[darkphantomime]

Aaaarrgh, but it's only the games that have actually been released. It is made out in Minish Cap that Zelda and Link already know each  other personally, but with OoT, there is an atmosphere that they only knew each other through some long ago sense. And with MC, it's like all of this has happened before, over and again. But with OoT, there is this sense of seriousness, one that can't be openly denied.

And then there is the whole exploration of hyrule's history. A level and point that  we don't go about in any other game,  except maybe Windwaker... Speaking of which, wouldn't WIndwaker made mention of The events of Minish Cap, had it really been made out to be first? Seeing that Minish Cap should've passed into legend... But I know this can't be because Minish Cap is the newest, so all things mentioned in Minish Cap aren't the stuff of legend within the other games.

[LadyNintendo]

Then TMC's pre-history doesn't count either. Because if it's only about the released games, then TMC has no games before it too. Or can you tell me which Link used the Four Sword before TMC, who befriended the Minish and who got the Lightforce? No game has ever been released featuring a Link like that. OOT and TMC BOTH make references to a past that has not been featured in any other game, but that past is canon.
And some Links and Zeldas know eachother before the big adventure starts. Not that strange seeing as that all races seem to prefer to live among their own kind and that OOT Link just thought he was a Kokiri for the first nine years of his life by accident. The fact that a Link and Zelda meet for the first time during the adventure says about 0% about a Link and Zelda in other times.

TMC clearly happens before ALTTP too, but I didn't see anything about TMC in ALTTP either. Same goes for the events of TP not being mentioned in TWW. And I also don't see anything about OOT in TMC. Point is, time erases some stories from people's memories, or they are not relevant at that time.

[darkphantomime]

Heh, except it's speculated that TP will reveal a lot about what happened tween Wndwaker and OoT. Even I can say that there may be links in the chain yet to be found.

[LadyNintendo]

I was just picking random games that do not get mentioned in the storywise younger games. TP probably won't be about the flood and therefor is not mentioned in TWW. TWW refered to a great hero: the Hero Of Time, which isn't TP Link. TWW refers to events that probably happened ages after TP. I could be wrong, but for now everything seems to point to that direction.
I could've picked lots of other games to prove some events that happened before *insert randomly chosen game* are not mentioned by anyone or anything in both the game and manual. FS happens after TMC, but it does not mention anything about it. The story FS refers to is not TMC. And ALTTP doesn't mention anything about the event of TWW. And no, I do not believe in a split timeline theory, because it's impossible or would've caused one timeline to be taken over by Ganon(dorf), which didn't happen.

[Uximadesk]

I have one that can beat all your theories, it has officially been stated that OoT is the very first game in the time line, so for me that's enough.
Now, let me jump with a theory of my own, it is very clear that MC Hyrule is very different from OoT Hyrule, my theory is that since OoT comes WW, and at the end of WW Link is told for a new land, so I think MC could very well be that land, but not necessarily the first game to unfold in it.

[LadyNintendo]

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

How often do I have to say this? He hasn't claimed that for a long time. The one time he said that, was when OOT was released. Now, if a game would be released about the war before OOT, should we still listen to that outdated statement and think OOT is first? I had hoped I didn't have to do this:

BB:  That's something that, you (Bill Trinen – Localization Team) and I have talked about with the release of the Zelda compilation disc, cleaning up some of the spellings like Ganon, and making sure everything is cohesive.  Maybe that's an American thing – us wanting to know how it all works together.  I guess that leads me to my next questions.  How do the Links in The Four Swords Adventure relate to the overall story line?  Or is it just a subchapter or something like that?

EA:  The GBA Four Swords Zelda is what we're thinking as the oldest tale in the Zelda timeline.  With this one on the GameCube being a sequel to that, and taking place sometime after that.  

I could not care less about that quote, but if it's necessary to defeat an even less relevant quote, I'll use it.

Actually, TMC's Hyrule is A LOT like OOT's. Mount Crenel = Death Mountain and the graveyard would indeed be where Kakariko Village should be located. The castle of Hyrule in TMC is located in an area you can't reach in OOT, so it might still exist. The waterfall = Zora's domain, The Minish Woods = Lost Woods. Even Lon Lon Ranch is almost at the same spot as it was in OOT. Almost identitical maps, with the exception of a swamp, a desert and Lake Hylia. The desert seems off-map to me in TMC, and the swamp off-map in OOT.  Lake Hylia is a bit tricky, but it could easily be an entire different lake. It is located in what I think will be the Lost Woods in OOT. There are traces of a lake in OOT, or that there at least once was one. It leads to Zora's Domain in OOT, which fits perfectly. If the Minish Woods really became the Lost Woods, then the "original" Lake Hylia would've been inaccesible, forgotten, and the name would've been reused for another lake.

[Evilslayer]

I believe TMC Hyrule is OoT Hyrule, and is west of ALttP. In TMC what I guess to be the Lost Woods goes all the way up at the eastern part of the map, and in ALttP it's in the west. The Master Sword is in the Lost Woods, close to the foot of Death Mountain. Hyrule Castle Town, which I believe is Hyrule Town, is close to Death Mountain. That's also where the Master Sword is.

I could say more, but I don't want to spoil TP to any one.

I have one that can beat all your theories, it has officially been stated that OoT is the very first game in the time line, so for me that's enough.

In a mistranslated interview, years ago.

[darkphantomime]

Heeheeheheheheheeheh...

Everyone takes from 'mistranslated' interviews. Actually I'm really starting to think that mistranslation has become the scapegoat and the dues ex machina for all who want to form their own opinions even though official sources say otherwise...

To Lady Nintendo: Isn't it possible that your connection could very well be the same the other way around? You say that the hyrule of Minish Cap is an early form of the hyrule in OoT. But isn't it equally possible that the reverse could be true? IE: Desert turning into swamp, the lake being forgotten and placed in another place... etc, etc...

But here's the thing that one may see: We already know that quite a few geographical features of windwaker are parallel to those in OoT. Even though they may not be exact, it becomes more apparent that the hyrule of OoT is the one that is majorly featured. Heh, it could even be explained in such ideals that after the flood, the desert became a swamp, and the lake was completely placed in a different area... I'm speaking as if the koroks somehow drained the great sea. In the insuing time, the landscape and geography of hyrule would've changed VASTLY over the course of hundreds of years. This assumption is very likely when one considers what happens in reality after a flood. Geographical features become eroded and vastly different, Environments are changed and characteristics that existed in the original land are no longer present in the same area in the changed land. If you really want a real world example of this geographical transformation, look at Egypt. Even though it was never covered by a flood, there is evidence that the desert that exists across North Africa was once a fertile marshland.

Hmm, this makes me think of something new: What if the minish are actually another form of the Koroks/kokiri?

[Mysterious F.]

This is the only order we know of the games:
OOT is before LTTP and MM
MC is before FS and FSA
OOA and OOS are the same time
WW is after OOT and MM, but LTTP is unclear
PH is after WW

[LadyNintendo]

FSA comes before ALTTP. Two reasons: Dark World and Trident Of Power. :)

Df: If it's mistranslated, then it is not an official source when it is known it is mistranslated. It's not an excuse to form our own theories while we happily ignore "evidence and facts". It's the reason why we doubt things, question things and find different ways to interpret facts.

I'm aware of that it could easily be the other way around. I didn't use that to prove TMC comes before OOT, but to prove TMC Hyrule is probably not the "new land". Unless we count drained Hyrule to be that new land. I never said the Desert became the Swamp or vice versa. Why? Because ALTTP and FSA clearly show the Desert still exists. The Swamp and the Desert aren't in the same area. Using OOT's map, I'd say the Desert is a bit west of the Swamp.

I wouldn't know about the Kokiri/Minish. Only that it was stated the Deku Tree created the Kokiri and that he is Hyrulean, while the Minish came from another world. They also don't worship a big tree.

[Evilslayer]

FSA comes before ALTTP. Two reasons: Dark World and Trident Of Power.

People don't change the Dark World in FSA and we don't know if the Trident of Power is the one Ganon has in ALttP.

In OoT, if you pay attention, there are two different stories of how the Golden Land changes.

1. If the person who enters it has a dark heart the land will turn evil.

2. If the one who touches the Triforce makes an evil wish the land will be filled with evil.

So... from this I guess that the Golden Land already turns evil when Ganon enters it, but still is the same land with its golden sky, though it probably gets more seductive (the children who disappear in the Village of the Blue Maiden don't want to return home, after all). And when Ganon touches the Triforce the land becomes visible evil.

In FSA it looks more like a twisted version of the Golden Land, so Link has to turn the Dark World back into the Golden Land before FSA, and then a villain has to change the land not by obtaining the Triforce, but by his own will (I believe that he/she has to be the most powerful person in the Golden Land).

[LadyNintendo]

What else could that trident be? Not to mention the link with the pyramid it was found in.

And I don't think there really are two ways to corrupt the Sacred Realm. The Sacred Realm was created solely as a resting place for the Triforce. The Triforce is its reason of existance. If one "corrupts" the Triforce, the land suffers the same fate. After all, evil is not more powerful than good (the other way around even seems more likely in the tloz games). Shouldn't a good soul be able to turn the place good again by just entering too? It seems ridiculous that presence alone can truly change a divine land and that it only works one way around. But corrupting its divine source might do the trick.  

[M-Warrior]

Ejia Aunouma stated that the Four Sword was in fact first in the series but this was before MC was released, MC now is first in the Timeline. In another interview before WW was released Mr. Aunouma and Mr. Myiamoto stated that there was a Dual Timeline in the Zelda series. Adult Link's Timeline has TP and WW, Kid Link's Timeline has MM, FSA, and ALttP. People tend to ignore FSA but it states the origins of Ganon's Trident which makes it before ALttP. Here's something that will prove the Dual Timeline Theory:
http://www.zeldalegends.net/index.php?p=848